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Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan. Login/Join 
Speling Champ
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To the Navy guys on the board:

How much damage can a modern ship take and still fight effectively? Or even fight at all?

The Stark took a single missile hit and almost sank. The Cole took the equivalent of a single missile hit and almost sank. The damage the Fitzgerald took seems about equivalent to a missile hit and appears to be combat ineffective as a result. British warships in the Falklands were taken completely out of action by single hits, several destroyed outright by fire or sinking. Several US Navy ships hit mines in DS/DS and were crippled.

I mean, these are warships right? Taking hits and damage yet still being able to fight would be part of their design, right?
 
Posts: 1150 | Location: Utah | Registered: July 06, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
always with a hat or sunscreen
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Second video shows MWR and Red Cross volunteers doing good things for the crew which is always appreciated in times like this.



Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club! COTEP #192
 
Posts: 7247 | Location: Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: June 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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They're offensive weapons, not defensive ones. We win by overwhelming force and smarts and money/resources. We'll always lose some tools and folks in the process. To make it strong enough to withstand 10 (or whatever) missile strikes makes it heavier, slower, and cost significantly more - which while better protecting that ship - compromises everything else because you can't have everything. Tanks, Ships, Body Armor, etc, it's all the same.

Basically.
 
Posts: 20262 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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Heard a reporter on Fox not too long ago say that the Merchant Ship was underway when it turned around for some unknown reason and shortly later there was the collision.

Don't know if they know that for a fact or are making the same assumptions we originally did according to the originally reported time of collision which we at least know wasn't exactly accurate since the distress call (from the container ship?) went out at 0220 and the news originally reported the collision at 0230. So both can't be right.

I'll stick with my hypothesis for now that the collision occurred at around 0130, but some are still reporting it happened after the Crystal turned back.

Here's a question, who would the USS Fitzgerald first send out a distress call to? The Japanese Coast Guard or their US command? Would they immediately notify the Japanese authorities what happened? Obviously the Container ship would. I'm assuming it was the Crystal that first notified the Japanese at 0220 after they fully realized the extent of the damage and that they must've hit another vessel.

Lots of assumptions I know. Just trying to make some sense of it.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 16870 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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YOKOSUKA, Japan -- A number of Sailors that were missing from the collision between USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) and a merchant ship have been found. As search and rescue crews gained access to the spaces that were damaged during the collision this morning, the missing Sailors were located in the flooded berthing compartments. They are currently being transferred to Naval Hospital Yokosuka where they will be identified. The families are being notified and being provided the support they need during this difficult time. The names of the Sailors will be released after all notifications are made.
http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/...am-jst-june-18-2017/
 
Posts: 3210 | Location: Bathing in the stream of consciousness ~~~ | Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Here's a question, who would the USS Fitzgerald first send out a distress call to? The Japanese Coast Guard or their US command? Would they immediately notify the Japanese authorities what happened?

Pretty sure the ship notified their chain of command. Then, the U.S. Navy (7th Fleet) requested Japanese Coast Guard assistance in responding to the collision. That sounds like SOP and what seems to have occurred, but haven't seen the SITREP. The Dewey responded as well.
 
Posts: 3210 | Location: Bathing in the stream of consciousness ~~~ | Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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RIP Shipmates.




read what you want
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Posts: 34883 | Location: Around | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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quote:
Originally posted by Hobbs:
YOKOSUKA, Japan -- A number of Sailors that were missing from the collision between USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) and a merchant ship have been found. As search and rescue crews gained access to the spaces that were damaged during the collision this morning, the missing Sailors were located in the flooded berthing compartments. They are currently being transferred to Naval Hospital Yokosuka where they will be identified. The families are being notified and being provided the support they need during this difficult time. The names of the Sailors will be released after all notifications are made.
http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/...am-jst-june-18-2017/


I've had nightmares about being trapped inside the engineroom with the ship going down or being flooded and drowning within the hull.

Heartbreaking news for the families. But at least the sailors have been recovered and the families can have some closure.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 16870 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by OcCurt:
To the Navy guys on the board:

How much damage can a modern ship take and still fight effectively? Or even fight at all?

The Stark took a single missile hit and almost sank. The Cole took the equivalent of a single missile hit and almost sank. The damage the Fitzgerald took seems about equivalent to a missile hit and appears to be combat ineffective as a result. British warships in the Falklands were taken completely out of action by single hits, several destroyed outright by fire or sinking. Several US Navy ships hit mines in DS/DS and were crippled.

I mean, these are warships right? Taking hits and damage yet still being able to fight would be part of their design, right?


Not Navy but, consider a few things...

1) The question you may be asking is, if it was another country's ship, would they have even survived such damage? USN ships are built to a very high standard of survivability, one of the gripes about our NATO allies is how their ships are not built to a military standard but, a merchant/commercial standard...this is an issue that comes up when people try to compare ship costs. Shock trails are expensive, not to many navies do them....USN does for each class of surface combatant.

2) The USN trains A LOT on damage control, again something of a mixed-bag when it comes to our allies and less so of our potential adversaries. Those DC crews saved the Stark, Roberts, and Cole. Unfortunately poor equipment and training contributed to the loss of HMS Sheffield.

3) The losses the RN suffered during the Falklands emphasized the demand for more sophisticated air defense (see Aegis and PAAMS) and the changing nature of weapon systems. For awhile, the words Exocet was a nasty, fearful word. Also, don't discount the secondary effects of an attack, the Stark was hit by two Exocets, one didn't explode. If it had, she would've gone down, instead the unburnt missile fuel burning the aluminum superstructure did more damage than the initial explosion. As a reminder, mines are exceptional valuable, low-tech, effective weapons. Like a sniper overseeing a valley, a mined waterway can deny access, change decisions and incapacitate the enemy. Underwater explosions are really nasty. If we were in an all-out war with a peer adversary, Stark, Roberts and Cole would likely have been scuttled.
 
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I've stuck with this thread all day for updates.
Left at 5:30p for church and all during the service we hoped and prayed the sailors would be found safe.
I'm heartbroken they didn't survive.

GGF
 
Posts: 534 | Location: Indiana | Registered: January 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
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This is a link to a Japanese news site. Text is in Japanese.

But there is a short video of DDG62 (shot from a helo ?) and gives a good view of the damage.

Video is only 20 sec long

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/htm...k10011020981000.html
 
Posts: 9030 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Heartbreaking news for the families.


My son spent 3.5 years on the U.S.S. Ross which is the same type of ship that was struck. Of all the things I worried about when he was at sea, getting struck by another ship wasn't one of those. My heart breaks for those getting the news.
 
Posts: 2053 | Location: Puyallup, Wa. | Registered: February 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
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anyone else hear of anything that indicates that the container ship altered course, and did a u-turn to initiate a collision



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

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Posts: 44338 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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There is another scenario that should be considered that would actually point towards the Merchant vessel being the party at fault.

This may have been an overtaking situation with the container ship overtaking the destroyer. The overtaking vessel has the responsibility to avoid the vessel of which she is passing. Considering that they were not on parallel headings, it's very possible that the container ship collided with the Fitzgerald at an angle while overtaking her accounting for the damage that we see.

That would put the fault squarely with the Filipino Japanese vessel. And yes, the collision still occurred at ~0130 I believe.

This is the scenario that I am more leaning towards than any other right now.

*Ship ownership edited.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Balzé Halzé,


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 16870 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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quote:
Originally posted by nhtagmember:
anyone else hear of anything that indicates that the container ship altered course, and did a u-turn to initiate a collision


I find it very unlikely that the collision was in any way intentional.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 16870 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
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The pic that bama posted on p3 of ACX Crystal damage looked like it was a shallow angle hit.

The very front of the bow doesn't show damage along the top rail.
 
Posts: 9030 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
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Due Process
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quote:
Originally posted by oldfireguy:
quote:
Heartbreaking news for the families.


My son spent 3.5 years on the U.S.S. Ross which is the same type of ship that was struck. Of all the things I worried about when he was at sea, getting struck by another ship wasn't one of those. My heart breaks for those getting the news.


Going to sea is and always has been dangerous. It is not much thought about, but a tremendous number and variety of details must be handled to minimize the risks.

The Navy trains and operates to avoid these things, collisions, groundings, anything that interferes with or compromises the desired operation of the ship.

This will all be figured out in the days ahead, investigations, courts of inquiry, reviews. We will eventually know many of the factors in what went wrong.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 41052 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The metal appears to be smeared aft, which would seem to indicate the Destroyer was traveling faster than the cargo ship.




"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”
Donald Trump (POTUS) Jan. 20th 2017

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Posts: 2166 | Location: NC | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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Funny things happen when tons of steel collide.

One thing is for sure. The Navy already knows who's at fault here.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 16870 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I apologize if it's been covered already, but how on earth with the advanced technology do two modern ships even get within 1000m of each other yet alone collide?


P229
 
Posts: 2144 | Location: Sacramento, CA | Registered: November 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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