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Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan. Login/Join 
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Incompetence from top to bottom.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
On Wednesday, the Navy said it was abandoning all remaining criminal charges against sailors involved in fatal accidents in the Pacific. Here’s how the actions of the chief of naval operations helped doom the cases.

Navy Commander tainted evidence:
https://www.propublica.org/art...ainted-investigation

=======================================================================

On May 13, 2015, Richardson was nominated by President Barack Obama to be the Chief of Naval Operations.

Why am I not surprised!


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 25643 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
thin skin can't win
Picture of Georgeair
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Congratulations on the most irrelevant post of 2019.



You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02

 
Posts: 12417 | Location: Madison, MS | Registered: December 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One step backwards, so that the rest of the force can correct itself. Roll Eyes
Never heard the guys in subs complain that one boat was so different from another boat, that they crew needed to get retrained for familiarization. I guess this is a positive step, as its forced the bosses to acknowledge that high-speed, ultra-modern, exquisite designs are more of a hinderance than the practical and pragmatic.

Navy Reverting DDGs Back to Physical Throttles, After Fleet Rejects Touchscreen Controls
quote:
The Navy will begin reverting destroyers back to a physical throttle and traditional helm control system in the next 18 to 24 months, after the fleet overwhelmingly said they prefer mechanical controls to touchscreen systems in the aftermath of the fatal USS John S. McCain (DDG-56) collision.

The investigation into the collision showed that a touchscreen system that was complex and that sailors had been poorly trained to use contributed to a loss of control of the ship just before it crossed paths with a merchant ship in the Singapore Strait. After the Navy released a Comprehensive Review related to the McCain and the USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62) collisions, Naval Sea Systems Command conducted fleet surveys regarding some of the engineering recommendations, Program Executive Officer for Ships Rear Adm. Bill Galinis said.

“When we started getting the feedback from the fleet from the Comprehensive Review effort – it was SEA 21 (NAVSEA’s surface ship lifecycle management organization) that kind of took the lead on doing some fleet surveys and whatnot – it was really eye-opening. And it goes into the, in my mind, ‘just because you can doesn’t mean you should’ category. We really made the helm control system, specifically on the [DDG] 51 class, just overly complex, with the touch screens under glass and all this kind of stuff,” Galinis said during a keynote speech at the American Society of Naval Engineers’ annual Fleet Maintenance and Modernization Symposium.
“So as part of that, we actually stood up an organization within Team Ships to get after bridge commonality.”

Galinis said that bridge design is something that shipbuilders have a lot of say in, as it’s not covered by any particular specification that the Navy requires builders to follow. As a result of innovation and a desire to incorporate new technology, “we got away from the physical throttles, and that was probably the number-one feedback from the fleet – they said, just give us the throttles that we can use.”

Galinis told USNI News after his speech that “we’re already in the contracting process, and it’s going to come on almost as a kit that’s relatively easy to install. [NAVSEA] would do it – it’s not something that the ship would do – but it doesn’t need to be done during a CNO availability, we think it could be done during a smaller one. Obviously, we have to work our way through that, but that’s the vision.”

NAVSEA spokeswoman Colleen O’Rourke told USNI News that “the Navy is designing and planning to install physical throttles on all DDG-51 class ships with the Integrated Bridge and Navigation System (IBNS), the ship control console with the touch-screen throttle control. The first throttle installation is scheduled for summer of 2020, after the hardware and software changes have been developed and fully tested to ensure the new configuration is safe, effective, and has training in place. The first in-service ship planned to receive the install is DDG-61; the first new construction ship planned to receive the install is DDG-128. A contract award to support these efforts is planned for this fiscal year.”

During a later panel, Galinis said that PEO Ships is also looking at variance in bridge designs and systems within ship classes – primarily the LHA/LHD amphibious assault ships, and to a lesser extent the LPD-17 amphibious transport docks – but he added that PEO Ships isn’t trying to achieve fleet-wide commonality at this time.

“Where we do have some variance (within ship classes) and what changes we should make to improve the functionality of standing bridge” are the focus of this ongoing engineering effort, he said.

Also during the panel, Navy chief engineer and NAVSEA deputy commander for ship design, integration and engineering Rear Adm. Lorin Selby said that the move to achieve greater commonality is not just limited to where helm control systems are installed in the bridge, but how functions appear on the screens of the control systems, and anything else that would contribute to confusion for a sailor moving from one ship to another within the same class.

“When you look at a screen, where do you find heading? Is it in the same place, or do you have to hunt every time you go to a different screen? So the more commonality we can drive into these kind of human-machine interfaces, the better it is for the operator to quickly pick up what the situational awareness is, whatever aspect he’s looking at, whether it’s helm control, radar pictures, whatever. So we’re trying to drive that,” Selby said.

He added that NAVSEA meets once a month to talk about progress on any of the hundreds of recommendations that came out of the Comprehensive Review and the related Strategic Readiness Review that touch NAVSEA. That progress is reported up from NAVSEA to the vice chief of naval operations, who is overseeing monitoring progress implementing CR and SRR recommendations.

Some of the recommendations will require more substantive changes to address, such as the helm control system backfit effort. Others are much simpler but just require the thought by engineers to make sure ship operators have access to systems they need in an intuitive way.

ohn Pope, the executive director for the program executive office for command, control, communications, computers and intelligence (C4I), said the ships have a laptop in the bridge that runs the Automatic Identification System (AIS) receiver. Ship crews have, in the aftermath of the Fitzgerald and McCain collisions, complained that the laptops have a finicky connection to the ship via cables, and that they are located behind other gear and hard to access, and other issues that should be easy to address now that there’s a discussion about simplifying the user experience in the bridge.

“We’re going back and relocating that whole configuration– it’s easy to walk a laptop aboard, but how do you make sure that it’s being used right, configured correctly, and a sailor can rely on that?” Pope said.
“So that’s something we picked up out of the Comprehensive Review.”
 
Posts: 14653 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The repairs are being done locally, quite expensive. Lots of work at the Shipyard for the forseeable future. New weapons systems of course.
 
Posts: 17236 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In light of over-charging that resulted in the Gallagher circus, the crashing of destroyers Fitzgerald and McCain continues to loom in the background. A shining example of undue command influence, an aggressive JAG Corps spurred on by it's bosses wearing the stars and a CYA culture at the top. A very sad picture of Navy leadership and concerning regarding readiness.

Blame Over Justice: The Human Toll of the Navy’s Relentless Push to Punish One of Its Own
quote:
Navy Cmdr. Bryce Benson accepted responsibility for the deadly crash of the USS Fitzgerald and was told, “That’s done now.” But when another ship crashed, the Navy decided it wasn’t through with him. Its pursuit nearly destroyed him and his family.
by Megan Rose Nov. 20, 5 a.m. EST

It was 10 p.m. on Jan. 15, 2018, when the phone rang in Navy Cmdr. Bryce Benson’s home tucked into a wooded corner of Northern Virginia.

Benson had just gotten into bed, and his chest tightened as he saw the number was from Japan. It was his Navy attorney calling. The lawyer said he wished he had better news, but he’d get right to the point: The Navy was going to charge Benson with negligent homicide the following day.

Benson, 40, stared at the ceiling in the dark, repeating the serenity prayer as his feet pedaled with anxiety. Next to him, his wife, Alex, who’d followed him through 11 postings while raising three kids, sobbed.

Seven months earlier, Benson had been in command of the destroyer the USS Fitzgerald when it collided with a massive civilian cargo ship off the coast of Japan, ripping open the warship’s side. Seven of his sailors drowned, and Benson was almost crushed to death in his cabin. It was then the deadliest maritime accident in modern Navy history.

Benson, who’d served for 18 years, accepted full responsibility. Two months after the crash, the commander of the Pacific fleet fired Benson as captain and gave him a letter of reprimand, each act virtually guaranteeing he’d never be promoted and would have to leave the service far earlier than planned. His career was essentially over.

Then, days later, another of the fleet’s destroyers, the USS John S. McCain, collided with a civilian tanker, killing 10 more sailors. The back-to-back collisions exposed the Navy to bruising questions about the worthiness of its ships and the competency of the crews. Angry lawmakers had summoned the top naval officer, Adm. John Richardson, to the Hill.

Under sustained fire, Navy leaders needed a grand, mollifying gesture. So, in a nearly unprecedented move in its history, the Navy decided to treat an accident at sea as a case of manslaughter. Hastily cobbling together charges, the Navy’s top brass announced — to the shock of its officers — that the captains of both destroyers would be court-martialed for the sailors’ deaths.
...

The Navy community Benson and his wife had devoted their entire adult lives to had largely abandoned them long before the court-martial. Capt. Joe Carrigan, who’d been the skipper of the USS Antietam when it ran aground six months before the Fitzgerald crash, had called to prepare him: “You know, your membership to the club is revoked.”
...

Almost immediately, Benson’s bosses had upended his plans to get his crew up to speed, cutting short his training schedule in favor of an unrelenting series of missions and forcing him to do training on the fly. He worried about deploying when his crew lacked competency in high-skill tasks like ballistic missile defense.

But, he said, “if I felt my watch standers couldn’t avoid a 30,000-ton tanker, I would not have gotten underway.” Of course, if he hadn’t gone forward, he said, “I would’ve been left there on the pier and someone else would’ve got the ship underway.”

After the crashes, lawmakers had pressed Richardson on just this point: Could a commander say his ship couldn’t safely do the mission without blowback?

“If I could go down there and give that commander a handshake and a medal, I would do that,” Richardson replied at the time. “This is exactly the kind of honesty and transparency we need to run a Navy that’s safe and effective.”

Many current and former ship captains scoffed at what they saw as Richardson’s hypocrisy. In the real world of the Navy, a ship captain telling his command he couldn’t safely get underway is “impossible,” one former skipper said in an interview. No one believes there is a legitimate risk, only that the captain is failing to do what’s needed. “The subtext is that you’re a bad officer and probably a bad person too,” another officer said.

By pursuing Benson, the officers said, Richardson and others atop the Navy hierarchy could avoid taking responsibility for their role in setting commanders, and their ships, up for disaster. For years, a ProPublica story in February found, the Navy had ignored reports, audits and the warnings of many top Navy and Pentagon officials that the fleet was dangerously overworked, undermanned and in disrepair, putting sailors’ lives at risk.
....

Not only had the Navy dumped him, it seemed determined to bring its full weight publicly against him. Almost any time Benson heard the Navy’s top officers talk about the collision, they framed it as preventable if not for his incompetence and said he “owned” the tragedy. He was frustrated by their megaphone and how he had to wait until the court-martial to tell his own story. Benson was heartened somewhat when in December the judge called out Navy leadership for their PR campaign. The trial would be allowed to go forward, but the judge admonished Richardson and his deputy, Moran, for violating a sacred tenet of military criminal justice: to not poison the system by making their opinions clear. By doing so, any potential jurors would know exactly what the top brass wanted.

A month later in January, the judge handed the Navy a final blow: The admiral in charge of the criminal proceedings was disqualified for improperly using his position to help the prosecution gather evidence against Benson. The Navy’s case had collapsed, but more than three months dragged by before it finally dropped the remaining charges against Benson. (The day the charges were dropped, ProPublica had informed the Navy it would be publishing a story detailing the extensive, troubling mistakes made by the Navy’s leadership in Benson’s case.)

The next day, the Navy took one more swipe at Benson, this time with a public letter of censure. The secretary of the Navy, Richard Spencer, wrote an admonishment that repeatedly used the same words and phrases, such as “failure” and “unworthy of trust,” basically restating the charges the Navy was unable to bring to court, without an avenue for appeal. In an email, Spencer’s spokeswoman declined to provide details about why he wrote the letter. Alex Benson felt like the ordeal was finally over, but when she looked at her husband, she saw someone with a still-open wound. He’d lost his chance to affirmatively, publicly, be found innocent, because the Navy, Benson told her, “screwed it up.”
 
Posts: 14653 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Navy has enough problems with its acquisition of ships, internal systems like navigation seem to be cut from the same cloth, short sighted and not very well thought through.

COLLISION COURSE: When the USS John S. McCain crashed in the Pacific, the Navy blamed the destroyer’s crew for the loss of 10 sailors. The truth is the Navy’s flawed technology set the McCain up for disaster.
quote:
To guide the McCain, Bordeaux relied upon a navigation system the Navy considered a triumph of technology and thrift. It featured slick black touch screens to operate the ship’s wheel and propellers. It knit together information from radars and digital maps. It would save money by requiring fewer sailors to safely steer the ship.

Bordeaux felt confident using the system to control the speed and heading of the ship. But there were many things he did not understand about the array of dials, arrows and data that filled the touch screen.
“There was actually a lot of functions on there that I had no clue what on earth they did,” Bordeaux said of the system.

Bordeaux, one of the newest sailors on the ship, was joined in uncertainty by one of the most seasoned, Cmdr. Alfredo Sanchez, captain of the McCain.

A 19-year Navy veteran, Sanchez had watched as technicians replaced the ship’s traditional steering controls a year earlier with the new navigation system. Almost from the start, it caused him headaches. The system constantly indicated problems with steering. They were mostly false alarms, quickly fixed, but by March 2017, Sanchez’s engineers were calling the system “unstable,” with “multiple and cascading failures regularly.”

Sanchez grew to distrust the navigation system, especially for use in delicate operations. He often ordered it to run in backup manual mode, which eliminated some of the automated functions but also created new risks.

In August 2017, Sanchez and his crew steered the ship toward a naval base in Singapore, where technicians were waiting. The navigation system had indicated more than 60 “major steering faults” during the month.
“We were going to have the programmers,” Sanchez said, “give the system a full, a full check, a full clean bill of health.”

The McCain never reached its destination.
 
Posts: 14653 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Old thread I know, the USS Fitzgerald sailed into San Diego yesterday. My son is on the USS Lake Erie and sent me a text yesterday that the Fitzgerald pulled in two piers down from his ship. Repairs and assessments completed, probably some sea trials left before fully operational.
 
Posts: 189 | Registered: April 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They completed the repairs here in Mississippi and did quite a bit of upgrading. Sea trials have been conducted, and it is my understand the Fitz is ready to go. The repairs took quite a long time.
 
Posts: 17236 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deeds Not Words
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Mholmes,I had the privilege to sail in LAKE ERIE from 2001-2004 as Ops — She is an amazing warship! Please tell your son, DGUTS!


Navy BMD: When "Aim High" isn't High Enough!
 
Posts: 62 | Registered: August 05, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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When I was a young naval officer reporting to my first ship, a destroyer, it was made clear to me that my first priority was to learn how to drive the ship. The only technology on the bridge was a radar repeater, gyro repeaters with alidades, and maneuvering boards. A maneuvering board was a pad of printed forms that allowed one to plot range and bearing over time of a radar contact and then with parallel rulers determine its course, speed, and closest point of approach.

We learned to keep our eyes outside the ship. Even at night and without radar it is easy to see if a contact will be a problem.

Obviously a lot has changed since then and a modern warship is a very complex thing. While that complexity results in capabilities I couldn't imagine in my time, it is a two edged sword. Young officers now have much more to learn. This is achieved using a very structured qualification system. Unfortunately the basic skills necessary to a competent mariner seem to have been left out of the system and remain as "on the job" qualifications.

The recent spate of destroyer disasters demonstrate this situation has persisted to the point that even some commanding officers don't know how to drive the ship safely.

Some functions, like modern warfighting, require complex systems. Safely driving one's ship does not. But removing that complexity without addressing the current lack of skills will not solve the problem.


"The world is too dangerous to live in-not because of the people who do evil, but because of the people who sit and let it happen." (Albert Einstein)
 
Posts: 955 | Location: Rural Virginia - USA | Registered: May 14, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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NTSB report on the Fitzgerald accident:

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the collision between US Navy Destroyer Fitzgerald and container ship ACX Crystal was the Fitzgerald’s bridge team’s failure to take early and substantial action to avoid collision as the give-way vessel in a crossing situation. Contributing was ineffective communication and cooperation among the Fitzgerald crew on the bridge and in the combat information center (CIC), and the Fitzgerald commanding officer’s (CO) insufficient planning for the hazards of the vessel’s intended transit. Also contributing was the Navy’s ineffective oversight of the Fitzgerald in the areas of operations scheduling, crew training, and fatigue mitigation. Also contributing to the accident was the ACX Crystal watch officer’s lack of early detection of the Navy vessel and insufficient actions to avoid collision once in doubt as to the destroyer’s intentions."

https://ntsb.gov/investigation...s/Pages/mar2002.aspx
 
Posts: 21335 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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