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Seven US Sailors are missing after a US Navy destroyer collided with a 21,000 ton cargo ship 56 miles off the coast of Japan. Login/Join 
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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The navy could at least get its facts straight so conspiracy theories aren't blowing up all over the place. If not, it's better not to say anything at all.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Endowment)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 18286 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Hobbs
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Anyone know what time Japan Coast Guard responded? I can't find anything about it other than they were requested to assist. One might think that would give some idea of a collision timeline. Or at least another fact to the matter for consideration.
 
Posts: 3256 | Location: Bathing in the stream of consciousness ~~~ | Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The navy could at least get its facts straight so conspiracy theories aren't blowing up all over the place. If not, it's better not to say anything at all.
The Navy's Public Affairs Officers aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.
 
Posts: 36285 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hobbs:
Anyone know what time Japan Coast Guard responded? I can't find anything about it other than they were requested to assist. One might think that would give some idea of a collision timeline. Or at least another fact to the matter for consideration.
I tried to find direct Japanese CG statements but am not having any luck.
 
Posts: 36285 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
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The confusion seems to be in the time of the collision, the time of the first call to the Japanese coast guard, and when the Navy first was contacted, etc.

The destroyer had its radio room wiped out, communications were impaired.

quote:
Others caution that there are potentially many other contributing factors to the collision. Tracking data sent by the cargo ship, the ACX Crystal, showed it reversed course around 2:05 a.m. local time, shortly before the time of the collision given by the U.S. Navy of approximately 2:20 a.m.

However, Nippon Yusen K.K . , the Japanese shipping company that operates the 728-foot-long ACX Crystal, has stated that the collision occurred around 1:30 a.m. That discrepancy hasn’t been resolved. “She did not reverse the course before the collision. She did after the collision,” a Nippon Yusen company spokesman said.
Link




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 43146 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
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This plot shows the cargo ship changing course just before the collision point at 0130hrs.
Destroy simply did not recognize that the cargo ship had turned in front of it.

To me this map clearly shows where the collision occured, if the map is accurate.




"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”
Donald Trump (POTUS) Jan. 20th 2017

"ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" King Leonidas of Sparta
 
Posts: 2427 | Location: NC | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dances With
Tornados
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The navy could at least get its facts straight so conspiracy theories aren't blowing up all over the place. If not, it's better not to say anything at all.
The Navy's PAOs aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.


Can you explain what PAO is? Thanks.
 
Posts: 6841 | Registered: October 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of old rugged cross
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i am not really following every post in this thread or the news on this incident. But,

What is really disturbing is that even the smallest of vessel's could do harm to any Navy vessel and crew. Especially in the world today.

So being on guard and vigilant 24/7 is mandatory. And these ships are outfitted and staffed to avoid all threats all the time. So something like this is just inexcusable at all levels. I don't care if there was a lot of boat traffic. That should of only increased the monitoring level.
Loosing seven sailors to something like this is maddening and heartbreaking.




"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 11665 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
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http://www.kvoa.com/story/3568...zzle-over-ship-crash

The Japanese coast guard said it received an emergency call from the container ship, the ACX Crystal, reporting the collision around 2:20 a.m. (17:20 GMT Friday).

It was questioning crew members of the ACX Crystal, which is operated by the Japanese shipping company Nippon Yusen K.K., and was treating the incident as a case of possible professional negligence, said Masayuki Obara, a regional coast guard official.

*************

I remember other reports citing a 220am call also.

The call to the Coast Guard would certainly be some time after the collision.

My interest is to keep conspiracy theories down too.

I do not want the Navy to look stupid.

PAO Public Affairs Officer
 
Posts: 10020 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Yeah, so there is no way the collision happened at 2:20am if they called it in at that time.

quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
I do not want the Navy to look stupid.


I know, but it's a little late for that, considering...
 
Posts: 36285 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OKCGene:
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The navy could at least get its facts straight so conspiracy theories aren't blowing up all over the place. If not, it's better not to say anything at all.
The Navy's PAOs aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.


Can you explain what PAO is? Thanks.


Public Affairs Office / Officer.

The media for the Navy.
 
Posts: 36285 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OKCGene:
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The navy could at least get its facts straight so conspiracy theories aren't blowing up all over the place. If not, it's better not to say anything at all.
The Navy's PAOs aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.


Can you explain what PAO is? Thanks.


Public Affairs Officer




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 43146 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Official Space Nerd
Picture of Hound Dog
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
The navy could at least get its facts straight so conspiracy theories aren't blowing up all over the place. If not, it's better not to say anything at all.
The Navy's PAOs aren't the sharpest pencils in the box.


I'm not Navy, but retired USAF.

Every flag officer (Generals/Admirals) has a literal army of staffers. Heck, they have senior officers (O-6s; Bird Colonels/Navy Captains) running coffee errands for them. They also have staffs to build and approve briefing points. I've seen this process up close and personal. I would help build a brief. We would brief the O-5. The O-5 would brief the O-6. The O-6 would brief the General. EVERY STEP OF THE WAY were dozens of people nit-picking the heck out of those briefs. It would be virtually impossible for a major detail like the time of a collision to get through without somebody catching it.

That announcement had to be reviewed by dozens of people before the Admiral got to it. It's inexcusable, to me, that such a high-ranking officer would give bad info following such a high-profile incident. Unless, some E-5 in the Public Affairs Office wrote it and it was briefed without being fact-checked? That, in itself, would be a gross incompetency. . .



No arsenal is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
Ronald Reagan
 
Posts: 19717 | Location: Hobbiton, The Shire, Middle Earth | Registered: September 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Hobbs
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Balzé Halzé, still can't figure the 180. Is it something a commercial vessel would do as a time waster if ahead of schedule or something under any circumstance or do they just always stay the course and continue to destination, get in the queue and anchor out. I think you gave thoughts earlier, just wondered if you've given more thought.
 
Posts: 3256 | Location: Bathing in the stream of consciousness ~~~ | Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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I was Navy and considering the confusion of when the time was reported and the emphasis the Navy places on concentrating on the families of the deceased and figuring out what happened, 2:20 vs 1:20 to keep the armchair commandos from starting a riot isn't one of their concerns.

Is it a mistake? Sure. Inexcusable? Really?

Obviously different priorities between the services, with sailors killed and their families being the priority.

The telling fact is they aren't concerned about the possible rogue ISIS container ship making it's way in the minds of those on the internet.
 
Posts: 36285 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hobbs:
Balzé Halzé, still can't figure the 180. Is it something a commercial vessel would do as a time waster if ahead of schedule or something under any circumstance or do they just always stay the course and continue to destination, get in the queue and anchor out. I think you gave thoughts earlier, just wondered if you've given more thought.
They figured out they hit someone, and turned around to check...
 
Posts: 36285 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Hobbs
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quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
They figured out they hit someone, and turned around to check...

In a perfect world, that's the only logical conclusion. What other reason could there possibly be? I got nothing.
 
Posts: 3256 | Location: Bathing in the stream of consciousness ~~~ | Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
Hobbs,

We are thinking the collision occurred at 130am.
(although that is not what the Navy is saying)

The 180 was at 203am.

So the cargo ship was turning around to return to the scene of the accident.
 
Posts: 10020 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Hobbs
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quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
Hobbs,

We are thinking the collision occurred at 130am.
(although that is not what the Navy is saying)

The 180 was at 203am.

So the cargo ship was turning around to return to the scene of the accident.

Understood. Just trying to frame it around the promulgated timeline somehow. It just doesn't fit in your minds nor mine at this point. In either time case of collision 0130 or 0220 only opinions have been offered at this point. Sides are being chosen on opinion and defended (vehemently?) as though fact. We just don't have enough facts ... for facts. Too long as a Chief and answering to O-types. Don't assume anything, hold the "thing" up to the light and examine from all sides before reporting facts. Does that mean I will be shocked if you are 100% correct? ... No sir
 
Posts: 3256 | Location: Bathing in the stream of consciousness ~~~ | Registered: July 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted Hide Post
Problem for the Navy is everyone has access to maps and timeline of the ACX Crystal.
They need to get there story inline with the information soon.



"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.”
Donald Trump (POTUS) Jan. 20th 2017

"ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!" King Leonidas of Sparta
 
Posts: 2427 | Location: NC | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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