Signal Private Messenger vs. WhatsApp, Etc.

January 09, 2021, 11:20 AM

I've mentioned Signal Private Messenger in-passing several times. Given all that's going on I thought now was an especially appropriate time to bring it up, explicitly.

My wife keeps having family members and friends ask her to install WhatsApp. I keep telling her "It's your phone. Do what you want. I strongly recommend against it." So she's resisted. Meanwhile, she's continued to use Facebook Messenger against my advice. I just showed her this graphic:

(Sorry for the size, but it's hard enough to read, as-is, w/o me shrinking it.)

from WhatsApp Beaten By Apple’s New iMessage Privacy Update

"Hmmm...", she said. "I'm going to have to try harder to get friends and family to switch."

The big story here, IMO, isn't so much how little metadata Apple's iMessage sends along, but how much even WhatsApp does--never mind Facebook Messenger. If you read the related article: It's even worse than what the graphic suggests.

Maybe WhatsApp was a viably secure messaging platform before Facebook acquired it, but not anymore, IMO.

A final note: Re: The metadata iMessage sends along: Apple has an unambiguous, strong privacy policy, unlike other tech companies I could name.

January 09, 2021, 11:33 AM

lkdr1989

Here's another article about WhatsApp's new anti-privacy policy.

Cardinal rule: Assume that there is no privacy with everything connected to the tech oligarchy.

Ironically, I'm wondering if a new "internet" will need to be created that will be just like what the DoD envisioned in case of a nuclear war; alternate DNS servers, etc.

quote:
WhatsApp will force users to agree to its new privacy policy within the next month, or else lose access to the app.

Agreeing to the terms will mean that a user’s private data, including their phone number, will be shared with Facebook, which owns WhatsApp.

All users must agree to the new terms by 8 February 2021, or else lose access to their chats and contacts.

The update comes in the form of an in-app notification, which users can choose to ignore until the date arrives.

The four best WhatsApp alternatives

“By tapping Agree, you accept the new terms, which take effect on February 8, 2021,” the notification states.

“After this date, you’ll need to accept the new terms to continue using WhatsApp. You can also visit the Help Center if you would prefer to delete your account."

The update is designed to “offer integrations across the Facebook Company Products”, which also includes Instagram and Messenger.

“There are no changes to WhatsApp’s data sharing practices in the European region (including UK) arising from the updated Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. For the avoidance of any doubt, it is still the case that WhatsApp does not share European region WhatsApp user data with Facebook for the purpose of Facebook using this data to improve its products or advertisements," the spokesperson said.

Data collected includes “battery level, signal strength, app version, browser information, mobile network, connection information (including phone number, mobile operator or ISP), language and time zone, IP address, device operations information, and identifiers (including identifiers unique to Facebook Company Products associated with the same device or account)."

Some WhatsApp users criticised the new privacy policy on social media, with many saying they planned to move to a rival messaging app like Telegram.

“This new WhatsApp privacy policy update is CREEPY and we should be concerned about it,” one user wrote on Twitter.

With around 2.5 billion users worldwide, WhatsApp is by far the most popular messaging app in the world.

However, since it was acquired by Facebook in 2014 for $19 billion, it has faced criticism for the way it handles users’ data.

WhatsApp co-founder Jan Koum stepped down as the firm’s chief executive in 2018 due to a reported irreconcilable clash over Facebook’s decision to monetise personal data in the app.

An older version of WhatsApp’s privacy policy stated: “Respect for your privacy is coded into our DNA. Since we started WhatsApp, we’ve aspired to build our Services with a set of strong privacy principles in mind.”

This line is no longer present in the latest version.

The new policy also means that simply deleting the app from a device will not prevent WhatsApp from retaining a user’s private data. To ensure WhatsApp no longer continues to do this, users must instead use the in-app feature for deleting their account.

The policy notes that even after using this delete feature, some data will remain with the company, stating, “when you delete your account, it does not affect your information related to the groups you created or the information other users have relating to you, such as their copy of the messages you sent them.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/...policy-b1783880.html

January 09, 2021, 12:00 PM

Balzé Halzé

I just installed Signal. I've been growing very suspect of WhatsApp as of late. I'll be all too happy to abandon them.

January 09, 2021, 12:11 PM

Lefty Sig

What's App is the dominant messaging app used in India and Latin America. WeChat is the only game in China and we know it's not secure at all, since the government monitors it.

When I try to get people with iPhones who use WeChat, What's App, or FB messenger, to use iMessage instead, they act like it's a big hassle and are all confused about using it for inexplicable reasons.

When FB messenger censored the link I sent to a friend about the Hunter Biden laptop stuff, I knew it was time to dump messenger.

January 09, 2021, 12:59 PM

ensigmatic

quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I just installed Signal. I've been growing very suspect of WhatsApp as of late. I'll be all too happy to abandon them.

Plus you have to know it's only a matter of time until WhatsApp is as riddled with security and privacy holes has FB Messenger currently is. E.g.:

quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
When FB messenger censored the link I sent to a friend about the Hunter Biden laptop stuff, I knew it was time to dump messenger.

Wow, that's pretty bold, even of Facebook.

In that respect: iMessage is probably better, because Apple has much better privacy policies than Facebook, IMO. But still there are two problems:

iMessage is a bit wonky. If the iThing owner is on WiFi Calling they'll still be able to message other iThing users, but not users of SMS/MMS, such as Android users.
iMessage messages are stored on Apple's servers. I know Apple encrypts iCloud data. I presume they do with iMessage data stores. But still...

Signal Private Messenger suffers from neither of those defects.

January 09, 2021, 01:12 PM

flashguy

I've never heard of any of those, but I don't have a smart phone. I presume that is why.

I sometimes receive mail on FB Messenger, but I never initiate one. I converse via plain e-mail and on Groups and Fora. They may not be secure, but they are what I have.

flashguy

January 09, 2021, 01:49 PM

ruger357

I’m happy with signal and telegram.

January 09, 2021, 02:47 PM

snwghst

FB is about to import/link all WhatsApp data into its system. Complete reversal of what had been stated..... I’m not surprised at all

Edit... I see link was posted

January 09, 2021, 04:21 PM

Scurvy

I use signal and like it. Remember thats there's no security unless all parties are using it.

January 09, 2021, 04:30 PM

Largefarva

I’ve been thinking that maybe this is something we should all consider looking at doing, in case the big tech/governmental cancel tour continues and shuts sites like these forums down. We need a way to stay in contact with each other. Problem would be figuring out a way to share each other’s info so we can get connected (on whichever messaging service we feel is secure enough).

January 09, 2021, 04:34 PM

Micropterus

I never heard of Signal. I just use the default SMS Samsung ap that came on my phone. I see Jack Dorsey (Twitter) endorses Signal. Well that's encouraging.

January 09, 2021, 04:35 PM

jimmy123x

quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
What's App is the dominant messaging app used in India and Latin America. WeChat is the only game in China and we know it's not secure at all, since the government monitors it.

When I try to get people with iPhones who use WeChat, What's App, or FB messenger, to use iMessage instead, they act like it's a big hassle and are all confused about using it for inexplicable reasons.

When FB messenger censored the link I sent to a friend about the Hunter Biden laptop stuff, I knew it was time to dump messenger.

ALL of my Central American customers use Whatzapp. Actually all of my international customers......so I'm therefore stuck using it. I haven't had any issues with it and all my customers are Millionaires/billionaires and they use it....So I don't know.......

I've never heard of Signal until this thread so will check into it.

January 09, 2021, 04:35 PM

flashguy

quote:
Originally posted by Largefarva:
I’ve been thinking that maybe this is something we should all consider looking at doing, in case the big tech/governmental cancel tour continues and shuts sites like these forums down. We need a way to stay in contact with each other. Problem would be figuring out a way to share each other’s info so we can get connected (on whichever messaging service we feel is secure enough).

Another gun forum I visit (yes, there are others) is resident on a host that has very strict rules about what can be posted, and there are severe restrictions on permissible subject matter. There is no guarantee that another venue could be found that would be as permissive as SF currently is.

flashguy

January 09, 2021, 04:37 PM

1flynDO

In the military and when deployed we use signal exclusively in the units I have been in and around. Dropped what’s app 4-5 years ago.

January 09, 2021, 04:55 PM

Largefarva

quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
quote:
Originally posted by Largefarva:
I’ve been thinking that maybe this is something we should all consider looking at doing, in case the big tech/governmental cancel tour continues and shuts sites like these forums down. We need a way to stay in contact with each other. Problem would be figuring out a way to share each other’s info so we can get connected (on whichever messaging service we feel is secure enough).
Another gun forum I visit (yes, there are others) is resident on a host that has very strict rules about what can be posted, and there are severe restrictions on permissible subject matter. There is no guarantee that another venue could be found that would be as permissive as SF currently is.

flashguy

I wasn’t talking about moving to a new site, but rather having something as a backup like possibly this Signal app in case sites like these come under attack and start getting shut down. We need a way to keep in contact with each other, and not being local to each other provides a bit of difficulty in that regard.

January 09, 2021, 05:11 PM

Jimbo Jones

Already on Signal...got the wife on as well. Couldn't get Telegram to validate.

Said it would send an SMS that never arrived.

quote:
Originally posted by ruger357:
I’m happy with signal and telegram.

January 09, 2021, 05:12 PM

Jimbo Jones

Oh shit...that likely means they have some sort of hack into it...hes truly a piece of shit.

quote:
Originally posted by Micropterus:
I never heard of Signal. I just use the default SMS Samsung ap that came on my phone. I see Jack Dorsey (Twitter) endorses Signal. Well that's encouraging.

January 09, 2021, 05:17 PM

ridgerat

My son is currently deployed in the middle of nowhere Kuwait. There is no cell signal available but they have WiFi. He uses Whatsapp to call or text, so we installed it as well. Once he is home (February), I don't see any need for it.

January 09, 2021, 05:23 PM

saigonsmuggler

I have been using both Signal and Telegram. Main issue I have with Signal is that it isn't available on tablets, only on phone for me.

Telegram is decentralized on blockchain so should be pretty good. Trump also has a big channel on Telegram with 320K followers. Other conservatives such as Trump Jr, Dan Scavino, Jim Jordan, etc also have their own Telegram channels as well.

January 09, 2021, 06:52 PM

1flynDO

Signal works on what’s app. The Russians and Chinese have access to it. That is why the switch to signal. Used it in Kuwait as well. Afghanistan.