Just read the list above of the deceased.
Two fellow Physician Assistants were among them. May they all rest in peace, and may final justice come to the muslim bastard that did this.

Few thoughts on the subject.

1. I don't have a particular belief whether if Islam is or is not a religion of violence.

2. Many calls our for their god in their self righteous extreme actions. Does not necessarily mean that god approves of it or not. Does not necessarily mean the action is carried out for direct service for whatever god was called out.

3. Some extremist Imams do preach terrorism. But, they represent Islam as much as power hungry popes who did a whole lot of farce in medieval era represented Christianity. Again, I'm not claiming Islam do or do not condone terrorism. I am saying those Imams are more, or totally, about self serving power than benefiting Allah or people.

4. Banning Islam would work as much as Romans banning Christianity. It won't work.

5. No organization ties necessary for one to be a terrorist. However, any intelligent terrorist organization would not waste an operative who've infiltrated as far as a Major and a White House adviser just to do some rampage shooting killing only 12. Then again, many Islamic terrorist cells were not the most intelligent bunch...


6. Unrelated note: "Allah hu akbar." is not always used in religious context. It's sometimes used like "Jesus Christ!!!" in frustration.

Did Hasan heed the call? He apparently did some substantial preparation before going on the warpath. How many others are out there to heed the call?

Here is an excerpt from StratFor there is this snippet.

quote:

In the 11th edition of the online magazine Sada al-Malahim (The Echo of Battle), which was released to jihadist Web sites last week, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) leader Nasir al-Wahayshi wrote an article that called for jihadists to conduct simple attacks against a variety of targets. The targets included "any tyrant, intelligence den, prince" or "minister" (referring to the governments in the Muslim world like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Yemen), and "any crusaders whenever you find one of them, like at the airports of the crusader Western countries that participate in the wars against Islam, or their living compounds, trains etc.," (an obvious reference to the United States and Europe and Westerners living in Muslim countries).

If he was a combat veteran suffering from undiagnosed or diagnosed PTSD, thats a 'cause'.

If this was a devout Muslim and conciencious objector that was intentionally being deployed to a combat zone, in a combat role that would require him to violate his religious beliefs, that is a 'cause'.

If he was a bonafied psychopath an just simply snapped, thats a 'cause'.

What I see is a list of excuses.

quote:

Originally posted by Solitar:
Did Hasan heed the call? He apparently did some substantial preparation before going on the warpath. How many others are out there to heed the call?

Here is an excerpt from StratFor there is this snippet.

quote:

In the 11th edition of the online magazine Sada al-Malahim (The Echo of Battle), which was released to jihadist Web sites last week, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) leader Nasir al-Wahayshi wrote an article that called for jihadists to conduct simple attacks against a variety of targets. The targets included "any tyrant, intelligence den, prince" or "minister" (referring to the governments in the Muslim world like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Yemen), and "any crusaders whenever you find one of them, like at the airports of the crusader Western countries that participate in the wars against Islam, or their living compounds, trains etc.," (an obvious reference to the United States and Europe and Westerners living in Muslim countries).

But, they've been issuing that "call" for years.

I hope this guy lives just long enough to feel the full pain and grief of the dead and wounded's family members, and then the Military executes him. If all of what the news is saying that the Army (his supervisors) knew of his true feelings and beliefs, some of the blame should be on them. The Military educated him, allowed him to be in the position he was, and he reportedly argued with the soldiers coming back from combat, that he was supposed to be "treating". He is a coward, and is evil ... he deserves no more of our time.

Pray for the victims and their families; Officer Munley and any other officers that engaged him are truly heroes.

quote:

Originally posted by SigPhil:
You keep saying "excuse" but I don't think that's as correct as "cause". The guy was nuts...

This guy was a nutjob who did his best to look like a put-upon Muslim/Arab because it was better than going out looking like a solider turned coward who couldn't deal with doing his duty.

Maybe. Maybe not. Pardon me if I am not 100% confident of your "diagnosis", absent any real facts.

Here is my $0.02. Everyone can call this guy a terrorist, but since when does Mr. Bin Laden & Co. plan single personal atttacks?

Al Qaeda is complicated & sophisticated. They plan large scale attacks to kill as many people as they can, or very "high value" targets (i.e. USS Cole).

This guy may or may not have been an extremist or not, but his actions are his alone. No terrorist link here.

It's like calling an anti-abortionist who kills an abortionist doctor a a terrorist act because he is a hard core Christian.

No. He was simply one fucking nut case.

quote:

Originally posted by SigPhil:
Does anyone have the balls to tell him he should be "sent back" because he's a Muslim?

Do you have the balls to point out where the Bible instructs the faithful to kill or convert everyone everywhere?

In any case, I myself am not advocating interment camps or deportation based on religion or anything else. However it cannot be denied that forced proselytization IS a basic tenet of the Muslim faith.

Some balance must be found between throwing the Constitution entirely out the window and the PC bullshit against "profiling" and all the rest. When the majority of your enemy is made up of a particular nationality, ethnicity or religious persuasion refusing to give that group extra scrutiny is stupid.

quote:

He was simply one fucking nut case.

So 23 nutcases is terrorism, one nutcase is... something else? What was Mao's connection to Marx and Lenin, other than reading what they wrote?

quote:

E) He was afraid that he would have to fight and kill Muslims

That is BS. He is a noncombatant.

I'd like to point out that waging war against the US isn't illegal unless you are a US citizen, in which case you're committing treason... but we can choose not to prosecute, or not to use evidence gathered by military means.

There is no reason to use law enforcement to wage this war, there is no reason to limit our methods to those found acceptable by a criminal court.

Well, here is where we differ then.

One guy shoots up people at a Military base or former employer in Orlando = nutcase.


Concentrated effort to hit the USS Cole, U.S. Embassy's in Africa,9-11 = Terrorism.

I have my opinion, nothing you say will change it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fallen Angel:
Well, here is where we differ then.

One guy shoots up people at a Military base or former employer in Orlando = nutcase.


Concentrated effort to hit the USS Cole, U.S. Embassy's in Africa,9-11 = Terrorism.

I have my opinion, nothing you say will change it.

Just because he is a lone shooter doesn't mean terrorist connections are absent. And AQ has been a part of numerous smaller operations, shootings and assasinations. Witnesses have said he shouted "allah akbar" prior to shooting, so it seems a small connection between his act and his faith is present. Everything else is speculative, but clearly there is a link (even if just in his own mind) between his actions and his faith.

But everyone saying he is just a nut who snapped... you guys are really basing your entire opinion off half assed news reports before any investigations have been completed so you are all just guessing as much as anyone else. The truth is right now, none of us know anything except he was a devout muslim soldier who decided to kill other soldiers. So the possibility of a terrorist act cannot be ruled out.

Well, terrorism does not require a club membership.

UNAbomer was a single guy, but was a terrorist.

A nut case can also be a terrorist at the same time.

Difference from a work place shooting is that it's politically motivated.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:
...
I'd like to point out that waging war against the US isn't illegal unless you are a US citizen, in which case you're committing treason... but we can choose not to prosecute, or not to use evidence gathered by military means.

There is no reason to use law enforcement to wage this war, there is no reason to limit our methods to those found acceptable by a criminal court.

That depends on how war is defined. It's not war on NAZI Germany or Japan Empire. It's war against terrorism, which any participant is not limited to clearly distinctive soldier status or citizen ship.

So, if any time the magic word "terrorism" is uttered, then we can toss the Bill of Rights out even for arrested civilian, and a U.S. citizen on top of it?

A non-U.S. citizen waging war against U.S. may not be illegal, but a non citizen committing murder in U.S. jurisdiction, espionage, etc. is illegal.

If U.S. federal, state law is broken in U.S. jurisdiction where civil court is active, then law enforcement has to be used.

War zone for "War or terrorism" is not limited to Iraq and Afghanistan. And, possible "enemy combatant" can range from insurgents in Middle East to any U.S. citizen living in America. There are some principles that are upheld at least in U.S. home land side, but there has been continuous attempt to bypass that when it gets inconvenient using "war" as excuse which I find disturbing.

quote:

4. Banning Islam would work as much as Romans banning Christianity. It won't work.

You're right about this. However, continuing to allow Muslims to immigrate to this country is absolute insanity, especially after what should have been our wake-up call on 9-11. As syndicated columnist Cal Thomas pointed out a couple of years ago, it's akin to the US allowing Nazis to immigrate to the US during WWII.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
Why stop at the military, then? If the "all muslims everywhere" line is what we are going after, lets just lock up or 'purge' all muslims from US society.

I say, investigate and purge everybody in the Army, just to be sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kreutzer,_Jr.

quote:

William J. Kreutzer, Jr. (born 1969) joined the U.S. Army in February 1992. He was a former US Army sergeant who was convicted of killing one officer and wounding 17 other soldiers when he opened fire on a formation at Fort Bragg, North Carolina on October 27, 1995.

[...]

During his time in the military, Kreutzer reported being the butt of practical jokes, and teasing from fellow soldiers. In the past, Kreutzer had reportedly told a friend that he knew what the record number of people killed in a rampage shooting was, and earned himself the nickname "Crazy Kreutzer".

[...]

By the time Military Police arrived on the scene, Kreutzer was insisting that he had given plenty of warnings that he was going to snap one day and start killing, but that they had ignored him, and said that it was "God's way".

It starts as one isolated incident. Then one every couple of months. Then one every month. Then one every couple of weeks then one weekly.

Until we have learned to live with this type of horror.

Doesn’t take a genius to connect the common theme of all this violence. But we’re too smart to state the obvious.


Mitch

An act of terrorism is meant to make a political or ideological statement, and bolster that statement through fear.

Hasan's actions and statements over the years condemning the war, and his strict adherance to Islam, indicates that he was VERY ideologically motivated. His internet postings 6 months ago were incendiary enough to catch the attention of the FBI. He targeted American troops who were mostly preparing for deployment themselves. He shouts "Allahu Akbar" as he begins to shoot.

Hmmm, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...

Honestly, what statement do you think Hasan meant to make here? From the majority of posts I've read here, it sounds like he was successful. How do you think he is being portrayed on Al Jezeera? How is he perceived by the Taliban, by Al-Qaeda, by the Mahdi army, by all the other jihadists out there? Even Obama is telling us not to "jump to conclusions." (Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.)

If he intended this to be an act of terrorism, or more precisely an act of jihad, I'd say he was successful. If he didn't intend it as such, then his true goal was cleverly disguised as an act of terrorism.

quote:

Some balance must be found between throwing the Constitution entirely out the window and the PC bullshit against "profiling" and all the rest. When the majority of your enemy is made up of a particular nationality, ethnicity or religious persuasion refusing to give that group extra scrutiny is stupid.

I'm quite sure the FBI looks more closely at certain Muslims who fit other slots in a profile than they do at WASPS from the middle of Georgia who were born in the US. If you want to look at ALL Muslims as potential terrorists, you would be wasting time, resources and the ability to actually find and prosecute terrorists.

Muslim Terrorist. And it appears that there were warning signs that folks in the army should have seen. PC gone amuck. We need to wake up.

Duck season.