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Biden, again, "shoot them in the leg" Login/Join 
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Picture of robbiedog
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Joe Biden is again saying that police officers should shoot suspects in the leg as a last resort. Might be better if LEO's could shoot the gun out of the perps hand, then clip the gun a few times in the air to make sure it lands far enough away that the guy can't get to it? Clint Eastwood could do something like that it one of the "Fistful of Dollars or A Few Dollars More" movies, shooting the hat off a guy, and then shooting the hat down the road. Anyway, here's an article in Reason from a few days ago: https://reason.com/2020/10/15/...ps-shoot-in-the-leg/
 
Posts: 72 | Location: East Texas | Registered: December 21, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
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~psst~ We have a pretty large Biden thread already going. Pass it on.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/8930089854


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Posts: 24974 | Location: Ski Town, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Across the board, quite often a liberals reality is someone else's fiction.


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Posts: 18046 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
~psst~ We have a pretty large Biden thread already going. Pass it on.

True, but not a Biden/Clint Eastwood thread......
 
Posts: 72 | Location: East Texas | Registered: December 21, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Back, and
to the left
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quote:
Originally posted by cas:
Across the board, quite often a liberals reality is someone else's fiction.

^^^^
This. You've said a mouthful here. The Dimwitted National Committee preaching the gospel to the the Deluded electorate.
 
Posts: 5539 | Location: Dallas | Registered: August 04, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Coin Sniper
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This is nothing but pandering. Biden likes shotguns. "Get a shot gun" right? Does he have any idea what happens when you shoot someone in the legs with a shotgun?

Clearly Mr. Biden knows nothing about a anatomy. He needs to stop using movies as a basis for real world policy




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Posts: 35756 | Location: Above the snow line in Michigan | Registered: May 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Imagination and focus
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quote:
Originally posted by robbiedog:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
~psst~ We have a pretty large Biden thread already going. Pass it on.

True, but not a Biden/Clint Eastwood thread......


With Lee Van Cleef included!
 
Posts: 5786 | Location: Northwest Indiana | Registered: August 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How many threads we gonna have on this topic? I posted about it yesterday and there is another long post about this same subject on the Biden thread?
 
Posts: 9176 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted October 17, 2020 11:37 AM Hide Post
Law enforcement world slams Biden's advice to shoot suspects 'in the leg'

https://justthenews.com/politi...d-shoot-suspects-leg

"We shoot to stop the threat," said Lawrence O'Toole, a lieutenant colonel with the St. Louis Police Department. "You could be endangering the public by shooting and missing."



Law enforcement officials are slamming Joe Biden's suggestion that police officers should shoot violent assailants in the leg to avoid a potentially fatal altercation, with experts arguing that police are trained to do exactly the opposite of what Biden advised in order to minimize harm during violent confrontations.

In an extended exchange with a questioner during his Philadelphia town hall event with host George Stephanopolous Thursday, Biden laid out his vision for police reform, including his opinion of how police officers should utilize deadly force while on the job.

"There's a lot of things we've learned, and it takes time," he said, "but we can do this. You can ban chokeholds ... but beyond that, you have to teach people how to de-escalate circumstances."

"So, instead of anybody coming at you and the first thing you do is shoot to kill, you shoot them in the leg," he offered as an example.

'Why don't we train the military to do that?'

Multiple law enforcement officials argued to Just the News that Biden had strongly misjudged the logistics of police use-of-force.

"It's a myth," Dana Schrad, the executive director of the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police, said of Biden's notion that leg shots are a practical alternative to current police training.

"We have a continuum of use of force policies that we follow," she said of police officers. "Officers are trained to de-escalate situations, to use the minimal force necessary, to contain a situation, and to bring it to a peaceful conclusion."

"If an officer is forced to use lethal force," she continued, "that means there's imminent danger. If there's that level of danger that would force an officer to use a firearm, he's trained to shoot to body mass."

"It takes some really special equipment and a real good marksman to disable someone by shooting them in the leg," she added.

Biden's remarks on Thursday were not the first time the politician has given controversial law enforcement advice. He made the same shoot-for-the-leg argument at a community meeting in June of this year. Several years ago, the former vice president also suggested that utilizing a double-barreled shotgun and "fir[ing] two blasts outside the house" would be enough to scare away would-be criminals.

Lawrence O'Toole, a Lt. Col with the St. Louis Police Department, said Biden's remarks on Thursday were "ridiculous."

"Why don't we train the military to do that?" he asked sarcastically.

"Obviously we shoot for the larger part of the body because we have the highest percentage of being able to hit the target," he argued. "We shoot to stop the threat. You could be endangering the public by shooting and missing."

O'Toole also took issue with Biden's premise that police officers "shoot to kill" when drawing their weapons.

"Nowhere have I ever heard in police training that we shoot to kill," he said, repeating: "We shoot to stop the threat. We do not shoot to kill."

'They have to be stopped immediately'

Police reform activists have often argued that officers can easily be trained to use firearms in a non-lethal manner when engaging with violent suspects. A bill put forth in the New York State Assembly several years ago would have directed police throughout the state to use "only the minimal amount of force necessary" when confronting and subduing violent suspects.

Dave Grossman, a retired Lt. Col. in the United States Army, told Just the News that violent, potentially murderous suspects "have to be stopped immediately."

"Shooting someone in the leg does not stop someone immediately," he said. "You're trying to stop an immediate threat. And shooting someone in the leg doesn't stop them from killing or shooting someone else."

Grossman, who runs a nationwide law enforcement training program and who developed the discipline of "killology," used a conversation with a deer-hunting relative to illustrate his point.

"He once asked me, 'Why don't cops just shoot suspects in the leg?'" Grossman said. "And I told him, 'The next time you shoot at a deer, aim for the leg.'"

"He got it immediately," Grossman added.

Police reform advocates also argue Biden is misguided

Justin Mazzola, a criminal justice research expert at Amnesty International, also argued that Biden missed the mark with his suggestion that police should aim for the leg.

"We definitely agree with the former vice president that officers should be taught de-escalation tactics," Mazzola said.

Yet regarding Biden's claim that officers should shoot suspects in the leg during violent altercations, "we don’t know that that's the right response in that specific circumstance," he said.

"What the real issue is," he said, "is whether or not lethal force was justified in the situation at all." Lethal force statutes in the U.S. are far too permissive, Mazzola argued. "We are calling on each state to restrict lethal force only in instances to protect life, under imminent threat of death or serious injury," he added.

Randy Shrewsberry, the executive director of California's Institute for Criminal Justice Training Reform and a former law enforcement officer, echoed Mazzola's remarks.

"It's an unrealistic proposition," he said of Biden's idea. "I think my feelings probably echo the vast majority that are in law enforcement today."

"The major thing to understand is that police officers must be trained to shoot for center mass because it's the largest part of the target," he said. "When we're talking about stress-shooting situations, accuracy drops tremendously. Most of the time it's not just someone standing in one spot. People are moving around. Adrenaline is pumping."

"I would argue that we need to teach officers to use other tools than shooting," he said, "such as mental health training. I think that would be a far better investment."

Fatal police shootings have received major media coverage in recent years, though they remain rare: The Washington Post's police shooting database identified roughly 5,000 deadly police shootings since 2015. If every one of those shootings was perpetrated by a different officer, that would still constitute about 0.6% of the more than 800,000 police officers throughout the country over a period of half a decade.

Overall, according to research, only about a quarter of police officers have ever fired their sidearms while on the job.

"Law enforcement officers rarely pull their weapons," Schrad said. "I know officers that have gone through a 25-year career and have never pulled their firearms."

Shrewsberry said the shoot-for-the-leg argument is "something that's been perpetuated in fictional TV shows." O'Toole said remarks like Biden's are "uninformed and uneducated" about the nature of marksmanship in dangerous and potentially deadly situations.

"If it was that easy to do, we would have been doing it all along," he said.

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Posts: 9176 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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Perfect example of how lethal and destructive ignoramuses with power and influence are.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 26434 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^ That post two up might just be an example of while people don't like the other thread. Big Grin


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Posts: 18046 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Meh, this is just more of the Obama era "War on Cops".

My guess Slow Joe doesn't direct his Secret Service detail to "shoot to wound" in their job of protecting him.

If we had a clean media, each time Shotgun Joe pitches nonsense like this, or gun control, he should be asked "Is your Secret Service detail going to do......." in a "you first" manner.

But, alas, the media is just a prop of the democrat party.




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Posts: 34495 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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quote:
'Why don't we train the military to do that?'


Because it's fucking stupid, Joe. That's why. Mad
 
Posts: 12245 | Location: Seattle-ish | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Let's get Shotgun Joe into a training house. Flash bangs, gas, everything.

Let's see how many people he can shoot in the leg.
 
Posts: 6189 | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If he'd said, "Shoot them in the pelvic girdle!", would Conservative heads be exploding?

Asking for a liberal friend.


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Posts: 11890 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If he'd said, "Shoot them in the pelvic girdle!", would Conservative heads be exploding?


That would slow them down quite a bit.


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Posts: 5439 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Richard Scalzo
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Posts: 5439 | Location: Epping, NH | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 7744 | Location: Rochester, NY behind enemy lines | Registered: March 12, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What a disgrace. I like how he says that the police shouldn’t immediately try and shoot someone as a first thought. What an idiot this guy is.

No one, cop or not, should shoot someone unless their life is in danger. If that’s the standard then what are you trying to shoot someone in the knee for.

That’s why no police or military group in the world uses shoot to injure.
 
Posts: 2046 | Registered: January 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by cas:
Across the board, quite often a liberals reality is someone else's fiction.

FIFY Wink


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