I just read the boys can't swim. They are teaching them to swim and dive.

I'm sure if they try to swim them out they will be tied to a line and pulled by rescue divers.

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I'm sure if they try to swim them out they will be tied to a line and pulled by rescue divers.

Unfortunately it’s not that “easy”. There are tunnels and areas where they have to go one-at-a-time, and another area where it is so tight they literally have to pull of their tank, go thru with it, and then put it back on. Non factor for a pro diver, but kids?

Plus, if they get scared and begin hyperventilating on the respirators...no bueno.

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Originally posted by GA Gator:
I just read the boys can't swim. They are teaching them to swim and dive.

I'm sure if they try to swim them out they will be tied to a line and pulled by rescue divers.

The main thing they will need to know is to not panic. There are sections that can only accommodate one person at a time. That will be scary as hell for kids not used to swimming or diving.


I wish them well.

Jim

Maybe it's a crazy idea, but can the tight, difficult passage area be blasted out safely? SEALs are awfully good at blowing shit up.

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Originally posted by Ronin1069:

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I'm sure if they try to swim them out they will be tied to a line and pulled by rescue divers.

Unfortunately it’s not that “easy”. There are tunnels and areas where they have to go one-at-a-time, and another area where it is so tight they literally have to pull of their tank, go thru with it, and then put it back on. Non factor for a pro diver, but kids?

Plus, if they get scared and begin hyperventilating on the respirators...no bueno.

From what I have heard the kids will not be wearing traditional gear. They will be on a long hose connected to a tank worn by a member of a two-man team with would take the kids out one at a time.

If they use the full-face mask as they plan to those can be connected to comms and the team could talk the kid as they are moving through the cave system.

I still think it would be best to find another way out but it seems they do have a pretty well thought out plan. I don't think the kids really need to be able to swim. Staying calm and not panicking will be the most important thing for them. Easier said than done.

I've worked with kids learning SCUBA. Once you get their attention and can keep them focused they pick it up better than adults on average.

Mike Nelson would know what to do! I loved this show as a kid.

Maybe give each kid a mild tranquilizer beforehand?

Isn't there some type of oxygenated pod sort of thing that you could put a kid into and just tow him out?

Or, they could just bring in some camp stoves and a pallet of SPAM and wait it out.

I believe that they are on a time crunch. With more rains coming the cave will soon be completely submerged. Talk about being motivated to learn a new skill! There life depends on it.

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Originally posted by Gustofer:
Isn't there some type of oxygenated pod sort of thing that you could put a kid into and just tow him out?

Or, they could just bring in some camp stoves and a pallet of SPAM and wait it out.

I think there are sections that are too narrow to swim thru with equipment on.

Even without more rain there's a question on survivability (CO2 buildup, for example).

I’m a bit confused, how did they get so far back there??? We’re they able to walk back end then the flooding happened and trapped them???

Man what a nightmare, I can see how a panic attack could be a very real possibility while being towed through a cave in the dark.

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Originally posted by newmexican:
I’m a bit confused, how did they get so far back there??? We’re they able to walk back end then the flooding happened and trapped them???

Man what a nightmare, I can see how a panic attack could be a very real possibility while being towed through a cave in the dark.

Yes, they walked in. Rain and flooding followed and they couldn't make it out.

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Originally posted by Gustofer:
Isn't there some type of oxygenated pod sort of thing that you could put a kid into and just tow him out?

I’ve wondered the same thing. Give them a sedative and they wake up in after they are through the hard parts. But, I’m beyond clueless on something like this.

SIGForum member Southflorida-law as well as other members who dive could shed some light on the risks of cave diving, especially for neophyte kids already weak and fatigued from being trapped for days without food, support or light...my prayers and thoughts are with them and their rescuers for the best possible outcome...

Cave diving is a whole nuther animal from open water.

I've done a fair amount of diving, mainly around Monterey, CA and Mexico, I will NOT do cave diving.

Unless the passages are massive, there's just too much to go wrong and I don't see any fun in it. In many ways, space travel is easier than cave diving. Silt getting kicked-up or, having debris knocked-off from above and clouding up the water will easily induce all levels of anxiety and disorientation, which means you'll breath through your gas at a faster than normal rate. You need to bring at least twice the standard amount of gear: more rope, anchors, lights, batteries, markers, gas tanks, lots of gas tanks; back-ups for the back-ups. As you ascend, decompression stops will also take up a lot of time, which also means more tanks need to be brought along. Like an airline pilot you need to be process oriented, the people you dive with need to be the same, and there has to be an inherent belief in following protocols and procedures, there's no short-cuts; teamwork at the highest level. For the more narrow passages, your gear is set-up differently, it's either between your legs or, you're pulling-it through ergo, your kick motion is altered. Oh, and it's dark, cold and a possibility of a current tugging on you.

The two British divers who found the kids are well known in the dive community. They're like the characters Dansen and Highsmith from the movie The Other Guys. Very solid, very strong divers who like to tit-tit rescue operations, criticizing and picking-apart, getting themselves involved while providing their opinion on how they would have done things. All the best to the kids and everyone working on this rescue but, they've got some long odds.

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Originally posted by corsair:
I've done a fair amount of diving... I will NOT do cave diving.

Same.

Those poor kids. God help them.

If it was one kid, not much of a problem, but 13, it could turn into a shit show real quick.

From what I have seen, some or most of the sumps are about "0" visibility which creates the greatest obstacle of getting these kids out. As the safety diver you cant keep a visual on the kid. Full face masks are good, except if they flood, then it would be a nightmarish situation on trying to get the kid back on a back up regulator.

Further, up to now, I have not seen anyone properly "cave rigged" for cave/sump diving in that area. And, at least for our SEALS, I know for a fact that are not trained in "overhead environment" diving. I have heard some cave divers are showing up.

Personally, I would not want to have someone do their first "cave dive" (or first of any scuba dive) in low/zero visibility, strong flow, restricted passages and on a long hose of their dive buddy. I have witnessed "experienced" divers freak out in those conditions.

If I was running this show, I would run electricity and data cords into the area (down a bore hole?), load them up on food and water, running daily trash runs and bring them out when the cave dries up. Unless someone with local knowledge knows that area also can flood in heavy rains. Then you don't have a choice.

In technical diving, you always have a backup or two. Two is one and one is none.

My point is I hope the idea of "training" the kids to dive out is plan "B". I know it sucks being stuck down there but brings in food and supplies. I would continue to work on other plans and only use the diving them out if I thought the area they are in was going to fill with water.

I just can't imagine diving that number of kids out safely. Too many factors to go wrong in that environment.