https://dailym.ai/2Jj2p3D

Elon Musk says:

Term 'billionaire' 'devalues and denigrates' people

Oh. Fuck. Off.

a very good article from Wash Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com...pisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

"the rescuers pressed their point to about 60 representatives from the civilian government: It was time to act, even though they fully believed that some of the boys would not survive the swim. Their message: Save most of them now or lose all of them soon."

One group made its way to the final chamber. By the time the divers emerged, the players and Coach Ek, as Ekapol was known, had elected the boy who would go first. Officials have refused to identify him, but friends and parents said he was Mongkol Boonpiem, a 13-year-old with a lucky name: “the auspicious one.”

The wet suit, the smallest they had, still did not cling to his emaciated frame as it should have. They readied the mask, attached to a tank filled with 80 percent oxygen. The rich mixture would saturate his tissues, making him easier to revive if he stopped breathing.

Richard Harris, an Australian anesthesiologist and cave diver, gave the boy a final assessment. The boy was given what Thai and American participants described variously as a muscle relaxant or anti-anxiety medication. A panic attack in a chokepoint no bigger than a manhole would almost certainly be fatal.

Finally, the boy was swaddled in a flexible plastic stretcher — akin to a tortilla wrap, Hodges said — to confine his limbs and protect him from the cheese-grater walls. And then, with his teammates watching, they pulled him under the murky water.

The original plan had called for two divers — one in front of the stretcher, one behind. But that configuration was scrapped as too bulky for the shoulder-width passages and elbow turns.

“Having that second person provided you nothing,” the U.S. Air Force officer said.

Instead, a diver kept the swaddled boy in a body-to-body clinch for as much of the swim as possible, the officer said, handing the boy over to a fresh diver after his designated stretch. Keeping the child warm was critical.

“Even then the divers would get cold,” the Air Force officer said. “That is a lot of time in the water, and water is constantly running in there because of the flow, so that pulls that body heat away even if you have a wet suit.”

The worst portion of the swim was the last one, a deep tubular swoop that held the water like a sink trap. All told, it was a grueling two-hour trek through muck-filled passages.

“It is crawling through mud and underwater tunnels, and you can’t see your hands,” said Erik Brown, a Canadian diver who was among the 18.




British cave diver Rick Stanton

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,

Apparently Musk didn't like one of the main divers calling out his grandstanding minisub PR move.

"Vern Unsworth, a British expat who was crucial in devising a plan to extract the boys from the flooded Tham Luang cave, had dismissed a miniature submarine brought in by Musk as a “PR stunt," saying that the device “had no chance of working.”"

Musk has Tweeted that he didn't see this guy while he was in the cave himself He went on to say that the caves were swimable without dive gear and he planned to shoot a video of his team taking the minisub all the way to the spot where to the boys were rescued just to prove it.



Elon Musk
✔
@elonmusk
· 4h
Replying to @elonmusk @zeynep
Water level was actually very low & still (not flowing) — you could literally have swum to Cave 5 with no gear, which is obv how the kids got in. If not true, then I challenge this dude to show final rescue video. Huge credit to pump & generator team. Unsung heroes here.


Elon Musk
✔
@elonmusk
You know what, don’t bother showing the video. We will make one of the mini-sub/pod going all the way to Cave 5 no problemo. Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it.

You guys still want to defend this grandstanding douche bag? He has basically just shit on the entire rescue operation and all of those who actually saved the boys. All to save his ego after being called out for his attention seeking.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/b...s-british-diver.html

That is an incredible claim by Musk:

"you could literally have swum to Cave 5 with no gear"

The British expat Vern Unsworth is mentioned in the Wash Post article above.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

sounds like Musk really did tweet that.

then deleted it later.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/elo...-thai-175300300.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
That is an incredible claim by Musk:

"you could literally have swum to Cave 5 with no gear"

The British expat Vern Unsworth is mentioned in the Wash Post article above.

Musk also called the guy a "Pedo" presumably calling him a Pedophile playing on the stereotype of British expat men in SE Asia...wow.

Musk is a con artist, nothing more. He is interjecting himself to get publicity to hopefully get more idiots to give him their money.

Almost worth a separate thread not to booger up this discussion of a bad situation and amazing outcome.....

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
Almost worth a separate thread not to booger up this discussion of a bad situation and amazing outcome.....

Except I'd leave the discussion of him until his house of cards implodes. Then a simple, "I told you so." would do.

Interesting side note. When the two British divers first discovered the soccer team in the cave, only one boy spoke English.

14 y.o. Adul Samon was the only one who could talk to the two divers.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2...-rescue-mission.html

In a news conference on Sunday, Public Health Minister Dr. Piyasakol Sakolsattayatorn said the boys and their 25-year-old coach are recovering well and are eager to eat their favorite comfort foods after their expected discharge from a hospital on Thursday.

"All of the 13 people, their physical bodies are strong, and fit. Regarding infections, through the medical evaluations in the first days there may be some of them that had minor pneumonia, but now all is cleared, no fever," Piyasakol said.

Piyasakol gave a prognosis for the boys, and said, "Psychologists have been talking to the kids, with the kids, their mental well-being is good today."

The twelve boys who were rescued from a Thailand cave paid tribute on Sunday to the Navy SEAL who died during rescue mission

Wiping away tears, the boys wrote messages of thanks on a portrait of former Navy SEAL and volunteer diver Saman Kunan, who died July 6, while installing oxygen tanks along the passageways of the cave.

“All cried and expressed their condolences by writing messages on a drawing of Lieutenant Commander Saman and observed one minute of silence for him,” the Thailand health ministry said in a statement, adding that the boys were only told about Saman’s death until a medical team determined they were mentally strong to handle the news.

Musk, if it was so easy to swim to the boys without gear, why didn't they just give the boys some floatable pool noodles and just let them swim to safety? And if it was so easy, how did a highly trained diver die?

Bad form on all accounts of bickering back and forth and hurt fealings. Should have took the high road here.

How cares about Elon Musk.

I followed this event closely. Talked to a few extremely experienced cave and wreck dives about it. No one cares about Musk.

Those involved pulled off what every single diver I know, with the experience to make these dives, thought they could do this without some casualties to the kids. The rescuer's hands were tied with the dropping O2 and expected rains and did what I bet they didn't want to do. Yet they did it and pulled it off. That's what we should be talking about.

Wow, that guy's a bigger douche than I realized.

Musk Challenge: Elon has to swim he entire distance in the cave without SCUBA.

another good article

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/13...vers-intl/index.html

British caver Vern Unsworth, 63, who lives in Chiang Rai, was instrumental in linking up the Thai authorities with the British experts. "I was actually scheduled to go into the cave on June 24 anyway," Unsworth told CNN in an interview in Thailand."I got all my gear ready, and I was going in to do a solo trip just to see what the water levels were like. And I got called out at 2 o'clock Sunday morning, and I was there for the whole 17 days."

Unsworth's role in the rescue was also pivotal because of his intimate knowledge of the Tham Luang cave system, which he describes as his "second home" after spending the past six years exploring it.

It was Unsworth who initally pinpointed where he thought the Wild Boars team would be waiting. They were found 200 meters away from that point, which was "probably around about the best place they could have been," he said.

The flooding of the cave could not have been predicted, he said, as the floodwater had come through three to four weeks earlier than last year.

"These kids were just totally unlucky. Wrong place, wrong time," he said. "It happened very quick. You can't blame the coach, you can't blame the kids."

In the early days of the search operation, Unsworth said he quickly realized that outside expertise was required, and advised the Thai authorities to bring in specialist cave divers who had dealt with similar rescues in the past.

"It was a race against time," he said. "They needed world class divers and that's what we got."

He was the first one to suggest calling for help from Volanthen, Stanton and Robert Harper -- who arrived a few days into the search on June 27.

"(They went) straight into the cave," Unsworth said. "That's when things started to really happen."

Unsworth described how after the euphoria of finding the team, the reality set in of the seemingly impossible task ahead: getting them out of the cave.

"Just getting to the dive start point was proving to be very difficult," he told CNN.
"You get to a stage where only 200 meters into the cave you hit what we call a sump where the water meets the roof," he says. "So that was making it difficult anyway to get into the system, never mind start from the diver point, which was chamber three."

A few days later pumps were brought in to start taking water out of the cave, which along with the low levels of rain that week, helped to lower the water levels as much as possible. But when heavy rains were forecast, the deadline approached for the rescue to begin.

"It got to a point where we knew that the weather forecast wasn't going to be too brilliant," he says. "We said we have to get in."

The complexities of the cave diving and the dangerous route the divers had to take with the boys -- many of whom don't swim -- meant they decided to sedate the boys so they would "stop panicking" during the rescue, Unsworth says.

"It was the only way," he said. "Some of these kids couldn't swim and they'd been put into cold water with wet suits on and full face mask, (which is) alien to them."

He added that this would also reduce long-term psychological damage because they won't remember the actual rescue.

The next challenge, Unsworth said, was coordination between all the different groups including the Thai Navy SEALs and international volunteers.

"They had never been involved in anything like this," he says. "I think it was just communication. It was difficult at times. Sometimes things got misinterpreted."

Unsworth said he expected a "high rate of attrition" in terms of the boys' survival but added that hopes increased after the first day of the rescue.

"Sunday was when the first four came out and they were all strong and nothing really to worry about them," he said.

"It gave us hope for the next four and the next five," he says, especially after the "very sad" death of Kunan.

The worsening weather added to the concerns among the rescue teams.

"The last day was the worst day," Unsowrth said. "The third day you have to get five out, plus four Navy SEALs, and the weather is changing quite rapidly. The water levels did come up on the Tuesday. You could see it happening. You could feel the tension."

Chatting to CNN in a leafy café north of Chiang Rai, Unsworth appeared exhausted physically and emotionally, and is still reeling from the outcome of the rescue.

"Just to get any of them out alive would have been a miracle. But to get 13 out of 13 ... won't happen again," he says. "(It's the) biggest miracle ever."

saw a couple of news story's that say that each and every one of the boys are as nice and pleasant as you'd ever want to meet.

a funny twist

The boys thought when they got out of the cave, they would be riding their bikes home.

https://www.aol.com/article/ne...aves-first/23485521/

The Thai soccer team who were trapped inside a flooded cave decided to allow the boys that live furthest away to be rescued first.

It had been previously reported Australian doctor-diver Richard Harris had helped decide which boys to take out first, reportedly the weakest or the bravest of the boys. But at a press conference on Wednesday evening, Ekapol said the boys were not chosen based on the state of their health, but rather were chosen based on who lived the furthest away.

According to the boys' 25-year-old coach, Ekapol Chanthawong, it was the entire team, under the guidance of international divers and the Thai Navy SEALS, who decided which boys to rescue from the cave first.

"I talked with Dr. Harris. Everyone was strong and no one was sick," he told the press. "Everybody had a strong mental state. Dr. Harris said... there's no preference."

Ultimately the team decided those who lived the furthest away were to be extracted first so they could ride their bikes and tell concerned families and authorities that they were okay.

"We were thinking, when we get out of the cave, we would have to ride the bicycle home," Ekapol said, not realizing at the time their story had garnered global media attention. "So the persons who live the furthest away would be allowed to go out first… so that they can go out and tell everyone that we were inside, we were okay."

"We put the hopes on them to tell the families we are coming out and prepare food," Ekapol said.

I was wondering if I should post in the old one



https://www.latimes.com/scienc...-20190403-story.html

The drug ketamine has enjoyed a long career as a workhorse anesthetic. It had a brief career as a party drug known as “Special K.” And just last month, it won recognition from the Food and Drug Administration as a fast-acting antidote for treatment-resistant depression.

But if you thought ketamine was out of surprises, you’d be wrong. In a new account of the bold operation that freed 12 soccer players and their coach from a watery cave complex in Thailand last July, ketamine is credited with playing a key role in the rescue.

In a letter published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine, the medical professionals responsible for masterminding the safe extraction of the trapped team revealed the evacuees were anesthetized with ketamine as they “were swum out of the cave wearing poorly fitting wet suits in cold water.”

In addition to keeping the boys from panicking during repeated submersion in murky, turbulent waters, ketamine boasts a property rare among sedatives: It causes blood vessels to constrict rather than relax. That made it a good choice for the sedation of patients being passed from rescue worker to rescue worker in cold waters after a long period of stress, dehydration and lack of food: They were less likely to develop hypothermia.

Known as a “dissociative anesthetic,” ketamine can produce strange out-of-body sensations and blunt fear and pain responses. It can be administered, even to a frantic patient, with an intramuscular injection — a practice anesthesiologists refer to as a “ketamine dart.”
And unlike “twilight drugs” such as propofol or diazepines — sedatives that experts say were likely considered and rejected for this use — moderate doses of ketamine don’t suppress breathing. That would have been a key consideration for patients far from respiratory monitoring machines or a mechanical ventilator.
“You would get a cooperative boy who would keep breathing spontaneously during the extraction,” said Dr. John Rivard, an anesthesiologist in Ann Arbor, Mich., who has participated in medical missions to Thailand and 14 other countries. “My hat is off to the team.”

Dr. Jeffrey L. Apfelbaum, a University of Chicago anesthesiologist, was also awed by the medical aspects of the rescue.

“The skill set necessary to get these kids out is just unbelievable,” Apfelbaum said. “There are countless ways, both medical and from a diving perspective, where tragedy could have occurred. By no means was any of this straightforward.”

None of the 12 teens who played on the Wild Boars soccer team had any diving experience, and several could not swim. But the boys, along with their coach, had been trapped for at least 15 days. If they didn’t run out of oxygen first, impending monsoon rains threatened to drown them.
To escape, one boy at a time would have to be squired through a treacherous maze of passageways filled with murky water of unpredictable depth. A retired Thai Navy SEAL had already died while making the crossing, and the physical and mental well-being of the boys was questionable. The boys would need to breathe on their own, and possibly cooperate with instructions as they were passed from rescuer to rescuer. And they could not panic, since each step of the relay was planned with military precision.

Writing in the New England Journal of Medicine, the emergency medical team that planned the boys’ escape revealed that rescuers administered “unspecified doses” of “ketamine-based anesthesia” to each boy. Then they fitted their charges with a “full-face mask” that pushed oxygen-enriched air into the lungs.

Upon their emergence from the Tham Luang cave complex on July 8, the first four evacuees had their full-face masks replaced with oxygen masks that fit more loosely. They were also fitted with sunglasses to protect eyes that had not been exposed to the sun in more than two weeks.

Each patient’s head and neck were immobilized in the event that some spinal trauma had occurred, then his wet suit was removed. Finally, the patients were bundled in blankets to ward off hypothermia.

Despite the precautions, the second patient to emerge from the cave complex developed hypothermia as he was being transported via helicopter from the field hospital to Chiangrai Prachanukroh Hospital.

While normal body temperature hovers around 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit (or 37 degrees Celsius), hypothermia sets in when body temperature falls below 95 degrees F (35 degrees C). At that temperature or below, the heart, nervous system and other organs become erratic. If a patient’s core temperature is not raised — usually with an infusion of warmed saline fluid and a generous supply of warmed blankets — heart and respiratory failure can lead to death.

The hypothermic boy’s core temperature fell to 34.5 degrees C, a problem attributed to “insufficient team coordination,” according to the medical journal report. After that, an anesthesiologist was assigned to measure evacuees’ core temperature repeatedly once they emerged from the caves.


Dr. Richard Harris, an Australian anesthetist who contributed to the report, has said he taught the divers performing the rescue how to administer ketamine to the boys, “and to readminister the sedative when the time was right.” (Efforts to reach Harris and coauthor Dr. Krit Pongpirul of Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok were unsuccessful.)
After a July ceremony in which Harris was honored for his role in the rescues, Harris told reporters that all of the rescued children “needed re-sedation at different times on the way out.”
As a result, anesthesiologists surmised that the boys’ level of consciousness likely varied in the course of their journeys out of the cave.

But while several American anesthesiologists lauded the team’s decision to use ketamine, some acknowledged that the sedative’s MacGyver-esque use posed a few risks that were not, thankfully, realized.

Dr. Jeffrey B. Gross, chairman of the University of Connecticut’s department of anesthesiology, said that light sedation with ketamine will “basically scramble your brain a bit but won’t put it to sleep.” At some points, the boys may have been able to follow simple directions. But their ability to perform complex maneuvers, such as swimming, would be doubtful, he said.
At a larger dose, Gross added, “they’d give you a blank stare. The lights are on but nobody’s home.”

Apfelbaum said he believes that many of the boys may have been deeply sedated for the most perilous stretches of the journey. That would have rendered their bodies virtually lifeless, unable to move or thrash about if they panicked, but still able to breathe and to be handed from rescuer to rescuer.

For somewhere between 5% and 30% of patients — and for teens especially — ketamine can induce frightening hallucinations, Gross said. And while respiratory suppression is uncommon at moderate doses, “at higher doses, they may lose consciousness and may stop breathing.”

“I always make sure we have a breathing bag and oxygen if I give a large dose,” Gross said. “I’d be scared to death I’d have to breathe for them if I gave them anything but a lowish dose.”

We knew they were sedated, just didn't know the exact drug.

They were high-enough to chill but, follow instructions and possibly not panic too badly

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
I was wondering if I should post in the old one

Yeah, but only God and the NSA could have found a thread from July.

Remarkable rescue. So few members have ever had to wriggle a long distance in a confined area. For, say, ten minutes. And they did it for hours.