What is the "Sea Chest" Balz'e?

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
What is the "Sea Chest" Balz'e?

It's essentially the tap where sea water piping systems draw water from the sea, so of course they are always located low on the ship's hull below the waterline.

Some sea chests supply multiple systems while others might just supply individual pumps like the emergency fire pump or the main engine sea water cooling pump.

That was difficult to read. Very disturbing at the end.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Highway:
I remember the thread when this happened last October, before the ship was confirmed lost.

Goes without saying, no one ashore or on board wanted that to happen, and with all the combined years of experience on that ship...just goes to show nothing is guaranteed. Someone else mentioned, the sense of the worst slowly being confirmed, until things start happening quickly right at the end. The 2nd mate standing watch through those long hours of the early morning, only to be recalled to the bridge shortly after her watch ended, to see that it wasn't getting better...very sad.

Any of you with experience know what might have happened right at the end? Did the ship capsize, or sink rapidly while listing? It seems like the Captain and AB1 probably didn't even have time to get immersion suits. Not that anyone else had a whole lot more time.

The end of that transcript is haunting. RIP.

From what I read, in laymens terms.

1. Cargo hold #3 flooded and the cargo broke free causing the boat to list (lean over to one side) at least 15 degrees.

2. The list then caused the oil lubricating pump for the engine (steam turbine) to stop pumping oil to lubricate the engine (steam turbine)

3. #2 caused the steam turbine/engine to shut down so they lost all engine power

4. Next the ship slowed down to where it wasn't making and foward momentum and then naturally the wind will put the ship broadside to the waves.

5. Once #4 happens, the ship is VERY vulnerable and very susceptible to rolling over with the wind state and sea state they had. She then most likely rolled over, it was game over within seconds to a few minutes and down she went.


Immersion suits do 2 things, they keep you floating like a life preserver, they also keep you relatively dry and warm from hypothermia. BUT, they are VERY cumbersome to try to walk in/move around in, on the deck of a ship. Especially in the manner she would be rocking and rolling while drifting. They are also VERY hard to swim in, float on your back yes, swim or move from point A to point B in the water tiring. Also, floating around in hurricane winds and waves and you're going to be drinking lots of saltwater even floating in an immersion suit.

Curious.

Is there provisoin for jettison of all topside cargo? (on this type of ship)

As an aircrewmember (also loadmaster duty), I/we had procedure to jettison rapidly, a great deal of "stuff" on the platform I was on.

In this disaster, it may have made no difference in the outcome. Especially if the water intrusion from the broken main was great enough to drag her under with no means of getting power/propulsion and pumps to function, or aility to keep the ship in a proper orinetation to the swells.

You think of an aircraft going down, and you know, if it were to happen, it will be quick and likley painless if it happens. Makes it no easier to think of, and you have to push it out of your mind.

But on a ship... How aganizing and horrific that must be, when you realize it is going to go badly and knowing for that long a time.

Perhaps there is a resoluteness the mind grants that allows one to face that and limits the fear.

God Bless them all, and God Bless those who sail, everyone.

Balze: I read that, tough read. Hug your baby and wife! That stuff seems like ZERO fun. Stay Safe my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Curious.

Is there provisoin for jettison of all topside cargo? (on this type of ship)

No, there isn't. And really, doing so suddenly can be just as dangerous to the ship as the flooding. Ships are loaded in a specific way for stability. A lot of planning and calculations go into it. When ships start losing cargo like containers to the sea, it's a bad, dangerous situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Curious.

Is there provisoin for jettison of all topside cargo? (on this type of ship)

No, there isn't. And really, doing so suddenly can be just as dangerous to the ship as the flooding. Ships are loaded in a specific way for stability. A lot of planning and calculations go into it. When ships start losing cargo like containers to the sea, it's a bad, dangerous situation.

I was thinking in a controlled manner, but I can imagine the undertaking and during a bad situation, even if well planned, could result in the very thing one is trying to avoid.

Guys on boats got big balls.

You and those who sail the seas, have all of my respect.

After reading Gales of November -The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, and the minimal recorded communications from her final voyage, I have wondered what went through the minds and was spoken between those trying to save a ship.

Reading that transcript puts things in real-time perspective. Brave souls till the end.

quote:

Originally posted by wildheartedson0105:
After reading Gales of November -The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, and the minimal recorded communications from her final voyage, I have wondered what went through the minds and was spoken between those trying to save a ship.

Reading that transcript puts things in real-time perspective. Brave souls till the end.

I have never been in a situation anywhere near as bad as the El Faro, but have been in some sticky situations on yachts, luckily all close to land and all I was able to save the yacht with minimal damage. An engine room fire, taking on a lot of water.

All you think about is 100% survival mode. Finding the issue and fixing it ASAP. Your instincts and adrenaline kick in and you don't even realize how quickly everything is happening, you just do. Every minute counts majorly, Usually it's only 1-5 minutes between saving a yacht (or ship) with minimal damage or losing the vessel completely.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Curious.

Is there provisoin for jettison of all topside cargo? (on this type of ship)

No, there isn't. And really, doing so suddenly can be just as dangerous to the ship as the flooding. Ships are loaded in a specific way for stability. A lot of planning and calculations go into it. When ships start losing cargo like containers to the sea, it's a bad, dangerous situation.

I was thinking in a controlled manner, but I can imagine the undertaking and during a bad situation, even if well planned, could result in the very thing one is trying to avoid.

Guys on boats got big balls.

You and those who sail the seas, have all of my respect.

You're talking about just jettising trailer trailer containers FULL of goods. They are all lashed to each other. The ship is loaded so it is balanced, so no way to just unhook them and let them rip. But you need cranes to unload each one, 10 guys aren't pushing one off the side.

http://search.aol.com/aol/imag...t=client97_searchbox

Each one of those containers is a full length tractor trailer to give you an idea.

Very surprised to read the Captain asking where the PFD's were on the bridge.

quote:

Originally posted by maddy345:
Very surprised to read the Captain asking where the PFD's were on the bridge.

I caught some discussion about that earlier in the transcript, at 01:46:12 (pg 322), when the second mate (conversing with helmsman) says:

quote:

we don't have any lifejackets up here on the bridge–do we? like the El Morro? cause I was thinkin' about that–safety stuff that was (on) the El Morro–we don't have over here.– it used to be in the * *. (they're not there/it was much better).

Hopefully we'll get some clearer answers as to what caused this tragedy and finally get some closure.

Coast Guard’s Third and Final ‘El Faro’ Hearing Set for February
January 30, 2017 by Mike Schuler

The third and final Coast Guard Marine Board of Investigation hearing into the loss of the American cargo ship El Faro has been scheduled for next month in Jacksonville, Florida.

The hearing will take place on February 6, 2015, at the Prime F. Osborn Convention Center. It will examine additional elements of the investigation including crew witnesses, TOTE company officials, Coast Guard officials and contents of El Faro’s Voyage Data Recorder, including the transcript of bridge audio recordings which was by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in December.

The NTSB, which is conducting its own concurrent investigation, will fully participate in the Marine Board of Investigation hearings.

The El Faro sank during Hurricane Joaquine on October 1, 2015 near Crooked Island, Bahamas with the loss of all 33 crewmembers.

The Coast Guard investigation will determine as closely as possible the factors that contributed to the accident; whether there is evidence that any act of misconduct, inattention to duty, negligence or willful violation of the law on the part of any licensed or certificated person contributed to the casualty; and whether there is evidence that any Coast Guard personnel or any representative or employee of any other government agency or any other person caused or contributed to the casualty.

The NTSB released the bridge audio transcript on December 13, 2016, after recovering the El Faro’s Voyage Data Recorder from a depth of 15,000 feet. The VDR recording included 26 hours of audio from the ship’s final voyage, including multiple conversations regarding weather and route planning in the day leading up to the sinking.

The hearing is scheduled to include 10 days of testimony.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Hopefully we'll get some clearer answers as to what caused this tragedy and finally get some closure.

The captain of the ship sailed into a hurricane. Where's the mystery?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Hopefully we'll get some clearer answers as to what caused this tragedy and finally get some closure.

The captain of the ship sailed into a hurricane. Where's the mystery?

Yes, but a seaworthy vessel should still have made it through those conditions.

There was an error chain of events that ultimately doomed this ship, one being the Captain's choice to take the route that he did.

I want to know what caused the out of control flooding and the extreme list, and I want to hear the final ruling on why the vessel lost propulsion. Those are currently unanswered questions.

An accident such as this is never the result of one singular event. It is ALWAYS a series of errors and misjudgements both human and mechanical.

I have just finished (re)reading the NTSB report on Alaska Airlines Dlight 261 which crashed off the CA coast in January 2000. Much can be learned in regards to attitudes, cultures and mechanical aspects of every accident.

Know what helps you keep from sinking when your ship is leaky?

Not sailing into a hurricane. It helps a lot.

The incompetence and poor judgment of the captain of that ship killed himself and his crew.

Although that may have been the final broken link in the chain, it wasnt the only one.

The purpose of this is not to place blame on an individual or single aspect of the event, but to look at it as a whole. Reason being that individual broken links in that chain show up in different events later. They ALWAYS do. If we can address those issues the chances of them being part of another broken chain in the furure is diminished.

So, the ship would have foundered and sank even if it had not sailed into a hurricane?

Look, I don't have to be a sailor. I possess common sense.

The captain sailed the ship into a hurricane and it sank. It wasn't a coincidence.

This is not working or that is not working whatever. How many vessels are afloat that aren't perfect? All of them.