it is all about percentages,

in addition to a percentage of employees that the company does not want to qualify for benefits, almost all retailers work on a payroll percent


so if you are running a 6% or 8% payroll (to actual sales) and the rate per hour goes up,,

simple math tells you hours will be cut back,

Lot of arrogance in this thread. How many of you want a pay raise for your hard work?

I agree that it is all about corporate greed. I wonder what all of you higher paid professionals would say when you are given a pay raise that then have befefits taken away to offset the "pay raise" .

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Lot of arrogance in this thread. How many of you want a pay raise for your hard work?

I agree that it is all about corporate greed. I wonder what all of you higher paid professionals would say when you are given a pay raise that then have befefits taken away to offset the "pay raise" .

Speaking as someone who started below the bottom rung and worked my way up, I realize that those minimum wage jobs are not worth $15 per hour. The minimum wage is for people with no experience to get experience working - it is not a career and is not a wage to raise a family on.

It's called economic reality, not arrogance. There has to a be starting point for people in the working world.

ETA: It is the arrogance of the 'Fight for 15' crowd that is taking away jobs and benefits for entry level workers. Imagine the arrogance of an entry level worker demanding $15 per hour to run a cash register or sweep an aisle. It is short sighted and does not consider the unintended, but entirely predictable, consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Lot of arrogance in this thread. How many of you want a pay raise for your hard work?

I agree that it is all about corporate greed. I wonder what all of you higher paid professionals would say when you are given a pay raise that then have befefits taken away to offset the "pay raise" .

15 bucks an hour plus benefits is ridiculous for someone who doesn’t have a skill. Amazon is loving all of this. It just gives them an even greater competitive advantage.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Lot of arrogance in this thread. How many of you want a pay raise for your hard work?

I agree that it is all about corporate greed. I wonder what all of you higher paid professionals would say when you are given a pay raise that then have befefits taken away to offset the "pay raise" .

Oh please.

These workers are flipping burgers and pouring coffee; it's NOT a $15/hour skill.

An oldie but goodie:


Link to original video: https://youtu.be/6r2rhl8997A

Its not about the money. its about a company agreeing to pay a wage and then screwing the employee by taking hours away or reducing benefits. I'm not about the minimum wage. I know people in retail that have college degrees and 20 years of experience with a company and have to apply to do a job that they have done for well for 20 years, for a pay cut.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Its not about the money. its about a company agreeing to pay a wage and then screwing the employee by taking hours away or reducing benefits.

But you do understand that the one causes the other, right? The workers demand a higher wage for a low/unskilled position, the company buckles to the demand and then has to find a way to make it work and stay in business and profitable. It's entirely predictable.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Its not about the money. its about a company agreeing to pay a wage and then screwing the employee by taking hours away or reducing benefits. I'm not about the minimum wage. I know people in retail that have college degrees and 20 years of experience with a company and have to apply to do a job that they have done for well for 20 years, for a pay cut.

Business relationships are a two-way street not a them vs us conflict (or should be).
The problem is when the government gets involved.
The money for those forced raises have to come from somewhere > increased price to consumer, reduction of expenses or in more dramatic fashion reduction of number of workers through automation or cut in other benefits and on and on.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Its not about the money. its about a company agreeing to pay a wage and then screwing the employee by taking hours away or reducing benefits.

Do you have any idea how business works?

There is ALWAYS an opposite reaction to something like this and businesses have to adjust to remain making money (their only real reason for being) and staying viable.

If you buy steak on a regular basis and it's normally $10 a pound but one day it's now $50 a pound, do you keep buying it as if nothing had changed? Of course not.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Its not about the money. its about a company agreeing to pay a wage and then screwing the employee by taking hours away or reducing benefits.

Do you have any idea how business works?

There is ALWAYS an opposite reaction to something like this and businesses have to adjust to remain making money (their only real reason for being) and staying viable.

If you buy steak on a regular basis and it's normally $10 a pound but one day it's now $50 a pound, do you keep buying it as if nothing had changed? Of course not.

This was Targets minimum wage! not he government! If a hospital hires nurses for 38.00 when another hospital hires them for 40.00. They do so because they want to fill their positions with people that have good work ethic, experience, and yes "skills". Or just fill their positions period.


Now if you then told the nurses that they aren't worth 40.00 and you are now raising their deductible. after hiring them with that agreement. I am guessing all of you would agree that is bull shit!

But since you don't believe that they are worth it. Its ok for Target to screw them over!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:



Now if you then told the nurses that they aren't worth 40.00 and you are now raising their deductible. after hiring them with that agreement. I am guessing all of you would agree that is bull shit!

Why are you now comparing nurses (who require lots of training, college degrees, etc) with someone off the street with no skills who stocks shelves or punches buttons on a cash register?

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
This was Targets minimum wage! not he government! If a hospital hires nurses for 38.00 when another hospital hires them for 40.00. They do so because they want to fill their positions with people that have good work ethic, experience, and yes "skills". Or just fill their positions period.


Now if you then told the nurses that they aren't worth 40.00 and you are now raising their deductible. after hiring them with that agreement. I am guessing all of you would agree that is bull shit!

But since you don't believe that they are worth it. Its ok for Target to screw them over!!!

How is it arrogant to point out economic reality? That's what I really don't understand.

I get it, when I was making a low wage I wanted a higher wage. However at that time no one was going around forcing companies to pay more for minimum wage jobs than they were worth. So, my reality was that I had to increase my knowledge and skill level.

And make no mistake, whether this was forced by the government or not, Target is a SJW company looking to virtue signal with this wage increase.

The reality is that no amount of feelings or desires to provide a career wage for a cashier is going to change the economic reality that Target is in an extremely competitive sector that will not support such a move.

I don't get how it is arrogant to point that out, or to imply that anyone who does looks down on cashiers or minimum wage employees. Nothing could be further from the truth, there is value and dignity in all work.

Minimum wage jobs were never meant to be a career. They are for teenagers or those people with zero drive. You work minimum wage jobs to make you hungry to get an education and/or experience to get a better job and thus improve your station in life.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Now if you then told the nurses that they aren't worth 40.00 and you are now raising their deductible. after hiring them with that agreement. I am guessing all of you would agree that is bull shit!

Employer / employee relationships are consensual. If the nurses @40/hr and a higher deductible are free to go anywhere that the pay and or work conditions are better. There's no bull shit involved. Nobody has a gun to their head keeping them where they are at. I've moved on many times due to similar circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
This was Targets minimum wage! not he government! If a hospital hires nurses for 38.00 when another hospital hires them for 40.00. They do so because they want to fill their positions with people that have good work ethic, experience, and yes "skills". Or just fill their positions period.


Now if you then told the nurses that they aren't worth 40.00 and you are now raising their deductible. after hiring them with that agreement. I am guessing all of you would agree that is bull shit!

But since you don't believe that they are worth it. Its ok for Target to screw them over!!!

How is it arrogant to point out economic reality? That's what I really don't understand.

I get it, when I was making a low wage I wanted a higher wage. However at that time no one was going around forcing companies to pay more for minimum wage jobs than they were worth. So, my reality was that I had to increase my knowledge and skill level.

And make no mistake, whether this was forced by the government or not, Target is a SJW company looking to virtue signal with this wage increase.

The reality is that no amount of feelings or desires to provide a career wage for a cashier is going to change the economic reality that Target is in an extremely competitive sector that will not support such a move.

I don't get how it is arrogant to point that out, or to imply that anyone who does looks down on cashiers or minimum wage employees. Nothing could be further from the truth, there is value and dignity in all work.

Target is crushing it...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/2...arnings-q2-2018.html


Bama..what do you do? IT? If you got a hired for 30 bucks an hour and did a great job. would it be ok for your company to take benefits from you even though they were making record profits? Or cut your hours so that didn't have to provide you health care so they can make more profit.

Amazons average worker makes more than 15.00 an hour

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Bama..what do you do? IT? If you got a hired for 30 bucks an hour and did a great job. would it be ok for your company to take benefits from you even though they were making record profits? Or cut your hours so that didn't have to provide you health care so they can make more profit.

Amazons average worker makes more than 15.00 an hour

Would I like it? Hell no, obviously not. However that is kinda the point. IT is a field where there is competition for skilled labor, so companies can't do that and stay in business for long.

Target has 350,000 employees. How much do you think it is costing them to move from $11 per hour to $15 per hour?

Just a rough cut - $11 per hour x 40 hours per week x 52 weeks per year = $22,880

$15 per hour = $31,200

$8320 difference x 350,000 = $2,912,000,000.

How do those financials look if you subtract 2.9 billion from them?

And that's not the total cost by a mile - an increase in salary means increases in taxes and benefits - the rough hourly calculation is just to get an idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
Now if you then told the nurses that they aren't worth 40.00 and you are now raising their deductible. after hiring them with that agreement. I am guessing all of you would agree that is bull shit!

Employer / employee relationships are consensual. If the nurses @40/hr and a higher deductible are free to go anywhere that the pay and or work conditions are better. There's no bull shit involved. Nobody has a gun to their head keeping them where they are at. I've moved on many times due to similar circumstances.

I agree. that's all I'm saying. Its wrong to hire someone and then just change their wage or hours. That goes for people in any pay grade

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:
This was Targets minimum wage! not he government! If a hospital hires nurses for 38.00 when another hospital hires them for 40.00. They do so because they want to fill their positions with people that have good work ethic, experience, and yes "skills". Or just fill their positions period.


Now if you then told the nurses that they aren't worth 40.00 and you are now raising their deductible. after hiring them with that agreement. I am guessing all of you would agree that is bull shit!

But since you don't believe that they are worth it. Its ok for Target to screw them over!!!

How is it arrogant to point out economic reality? That's what I really don't understand.

I get it, when I was making a low wage I wanted a higher wage. However at that time no one was going around forcing companies to pay more for minimum wage jobs than they were worth. So, my reality was that I had to increase my knowledge and skill level.

And make no mistake, whether this was forced by the government or not, Target is a SJW company looking to virtue signal with this wage increase.

The reality is that no amount of feelings or desires to provide a career wage for a cashier is going to change the economic reality that Target is in an extremely competitive sector that will not support such a move.

I don't get how it is arrogant to point that out, or to imply that anyone who does looks down on cashiers or minimum wage employees. Nothing could be further from the truth, there is value and dignity in all work.

Target is crushing it...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/2...arnings-q2-2018.html


Bama..what do you do? IT? If you got a hired for 30 bucks an hour and did a great job. would it be ok for your company to take benefits from you even though they were making record profits? Or cut your hours so that didn't have to provide you health care so they can make more profit.

Amazons average worker makes more than 15.00 an hour

That article is from last year. Wait until Target fully implements their pay raises. And Amazon doesn’t have the overhead Target does.

If Target raised the min wage they pay to $15 and as a result planned to cut hours in order to meet the budgeted total payroll costs as a scheme to look "Woke" to their customers, then it's a dick move and not the result of basic corporate economics happening.

Which sounds like is Ronin's argument, they didn't have to give $15 legally everywhere, they did in order to gain publicity.

The result is Target cut peoples hours in order to keep total payroll in line for budget and making peoples total hours fall under the minimum requirement for benefits.

Since the whole country doesn't have a $15 wage minimum it appears as a Virtue signalling move when you combine the trans toilet decision it fits the corporate narrative.

Agree in it's purest economic form, raising wages for an entire class of employees, regardless of the level or job requires funds to be reallocated from another area, either profit, others wages, price increases or decreased hours.

If Target couldn't make the $15 hour work for its employees it should have kept wages where they were wherever law permits.

The economics lessons are a bit much, considering that, as surmised the reality is Target virtue signaled the world to look woke and in the process actually reduced pay on employees by raising hourly rates.

Or Target could be signalling to the min wage pushers, this is what you get when you mess with minimum wages to an extreme position. We'll raise the wages but hours and benefits are going to be cut...