FWIW It's happening very quietly, but a staunchy liberal Northeastern school is, as we speak, evacuating its students who have been volunteering at a "refugee camp" in Greece after one of their students was assaulted. I know one of the volunteers being evacuated.

Very bad idea.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
Europe is full of pervs.

so is America....

I would not allow it!

Hard to believe that there's a fair number of members here that are basing their impression of European travel on a movie. Talk about letting Hollywood influence you. I don't want to come to America because I saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

IN general, I would allow her to go...if she could. Europe is not some backwater, they've got the same issues we face here, in many cases they handle tourism/out-of-towners better than we do. Taking a gap-year before college is becoming a lot more common, keep in mind that volunteerism is a big part of that equation; allows your child to develop their own sense of the world, their place in it and more importantly how do they react to a different world than what they're used to. Hostels come in a wide variety, with a very developed network

As others have pointed out, a lot depends on her maturity, which is reflected in how much she's able to finance herself, how much pre-trip planning has been committed and what issues are present. Is there a plan or, do they think they can simply get a Euro Rail Pass and wing-it? Many think Europe was safer in the 60-70's...it wasn't, Europe was a whole lot more dangerous with the Iron Curtain not too far away, Soviets financing any number of terrorist groups: IRA, ETA, Bader Meinhof, Red Brigade, these were organizations that had support from the populace that 'looked' like each other...not like the current variety of assholes.

I had a friend who faced the same dilemma, only their daughter was actually going on the trip; he and his wife agreed to pay for 1/3rd, she had to put together a itinerary, give a brief about each country they were planning on visiting and M&D would join her the third week in Rome. They took a trip into San Francisco and Los Angeles, rode public transportation to get used to that mode of travel and did a bunch of walking to develop their map reading skills. Everyone had a great time, their daughter 'grew-up', even ordered dinner for everyone in Italian one night and everyone was the wiser.

IN short, such a trip would be very valuable for self-development and maturity. At 18, she's an adult and you're gonna have to learn as a parent to let that rope out. You had 18-years to get her ready for life, she's gonna make mistakes, hopefully all that you've taught, guided and nurtured will turn-out a level-headed, well adjusted, individual.

Bad idea.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Hard to believe that there's a fair number of members here that are basing their impression of European travel on a movie. Talk about letting Hollywood influence you. I don't want to come to America because I saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

That's what seems to be the case. This thread has turned full retard. 18 is an adult. Europe is safe. Safer than many places in the US. I'm not sure how working in a migrant camp can be compared to vacationing and I never heard of a perv problem over there. Teenagers and young adults will find a European vacation a rich and rewarding experience.

I've recently been in touch by email with a knife maker, an American who lives in Berlin, has since the 70's. He seemed appalled by the level of crime that has risen in Berlin and Germany, which he attributes mainly to immigrants from Eastern Europe, secondarily to refugees from "Syria"--most are not actually from Syria. I have no recent first-hand experience, but it seems clear that it's not the way it was when I traveled around in the mid-60's.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I've recently been in touch by email with a knife maker, an American who lives in Berlin, has since the 70's. He seemed appalled by the level of crime that has risen in Berlin and Germany, which he attributes mainly to immigrants from Eastern Europe, secondarily to refugees from "Syria"--most are not actually from Syria. I have no recent first-hand experience, but it seems clear that it's not the way it was when I traveled around in the mid-60's.

During the 60's you had waves of Turkish migrants pouring into Germany. Crime was largely confined to poor communities, ethnic enclaves and industrial zones...areas far away from the tourist areas. Rail lines weren't as developed as today, thus crime didn't travel as easily. Finally the population has grown quite a bit, from the fall of the Berlin Wall, death of Franco, improvement of healthcare, movement of expats and ease of air travel, all have contributed to population growth wince WWII. I'm not saying we should ignore crime but, let's not get swept-up in the wave of fear and sensationalism. If there's any place in the world that understand the value of tourism, it's Europe, they know what butter's their bread, turn-off the tourism spigot and whole country's economies tank.

No, I would not be inclined to approve or finance such a trip. I have three grown children, all very smart and responsible. I would not be in favor of, or finance, the sort of trip your describing.

Two 18 year old women, just the two of them, Americans, on an unorganized backpacking kind of trip is dangerous. I'm sure they think they can handle anything and that nothing will happen.

They just don't know what kind of trouble could develop faster than they could blink.

Let's look at this from the other POV.

Would YOU let you 18-y/o daughter and friend 'hostel' backpack from one side of the USA to the other?

Be truthful.

tac

Let her join the military like I did when I was 18. Then she can see Europe and have it financed God Bless

At 18, no, not mature enough...
Post college or overseas study, yes.

My daughter and my two nephews all (separately) spent a semester in Italy living in hostels and with local people. They enjoyed the experience and never had any problems. Furthermore I was never overly concerned about them. I travel to Europe twice a year and have yet to see any crime or areas where I am concerned for my safety.
This summer my daughter is spending two months travelling through the SW USA. Again I am not overly concerned because I have travelled through the area myself in the past and felt it was perfectly safe. I am more worried that she is driving.

quote:

Originally posted by TSE:
My daughter and my two nephews all (separately) spent a semester in Italy living in hostels and with local people. They enjoyed the experience and never had any problems. Furthermore I was never overly concerned about them. I travel to Europe twice a year and have yet to see any crime or areas where I am concerned for my safety.
This summer my daughter is spending two months travelling through the SW USA. Again I am not overly concerned because I have travelled through the area myself in the past and felt it was perfectly safe. I am more worried that she is driving.

Okay, the question is, is it safe for two unaccompanied 18 year old ladies/girls to travel around Europe?(I’ll address the hostel thing later).

Answer: yes. Because European ladies that age do it all the time along with ladies from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South America-it’s really no big deal.

Regarding hostels-they are super safe and they are fantastic places to meet other young people from other countries, cultures.

When I was 15 a buddy and I-same age-cycled around the Rhine River area and
stayed in hostels-there were kids younger-these did have adult chaperone, kids same age and older, no big deal. Two years later I cycled and later hitch hiked(after totaling by bike when it hit the back of a bread truck in Bruges because I was ogling a pretty girl instead of watching where I was going)from Kaiserslautern(K-Town) Germany through Luxembourg-the Ardennes-Belgium, South England, Holland and back to Germany-with some Grand Prix stops along the way.

I stayed exclusively in youth hostels except in London. Again, I’d say the average
age was late teens, early 20s, but there were also kids my age and younger. No big deal.

[Hosteling in the U.S. never really took off, mainly because of the size of our country and our car culture and also over protective, fearful parents. Yes, there are youth hostels here but nothing like the hostel infrastructure of Europe where the average distance between hostels in Central European countries is about 20-30 miles apart].

And, in Europe, and other continents, it’s traditional for college age youth to hit
the road–and most stay in youth hostels or university hostels. There’s a long
tradition of this-i.e. Germany had the Wandervogel-which started in the late 1800s and were incorporated into the Hitler Youth during the 1930s.

Again, it’s common for young people in their late teens from around the world to travel around Europe/South America/Asia unaccompanied by adults-it’s done all the time, it’s being done right now and it’s no big deal.

I was twelve years old when I first travelled to Finland by myself.

I was thirteen when I went to see my family in Canada - by ship, and three trains.

After that, anywhere was on the itinarary.

tac

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:
I was twelve years old when I first travelled to Finland by myself.

I was thirteen when I went to see my family in Canada - by ship, and three trains.

After that, anywhere was on the itinarary.

tac

Congrats mate! 30 years ago I dreamed about going to Finland, Lapland just for the winter and reindeer, now that I'm retired maybe that could happen? Personal invite to SW desert Texas?

I think the question has more to do with gender than age.

quote:

18-year-old friend of my 18 y.o. daughter going on European hostel trip alone...bad idea

No, excellent idea.

Is it perfectly safe? No but neither is anything else.

I was in Iraq for my 19th birthday. It's probably safer than that.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:

quote:

18-year-old friend of my 18 y.o. daughter going on European hostel trip alone...bad idea

No, excellent idea.

Is it perfectly safe? No but neither is anything else.

I was in Iraq for my 19th birthday. It's probably safer than that.

tac