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Career Limiting Move for the CO of the Roosevelt? (Navy Peeps will Understand) Login/Join 
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Video of CAPT Crozier's piped departure

https://twitter.com/Alderaania.../1246060176345640961
 
Posts: 14573 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd like to hear this. It warmed my heart when I read this part- "punctuated with profanity".

quote:
Navy leader calls fired carrier captain 'naive' or 'stupid'


"In an extraordinary broadside punctuated with profanity, the Navy's top leader accused the fired commander of the cornavirus-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt of being “too naive or too stupid” to be in charge of an aircraft carrier. He delivered the criticism to sailors who had cheered the departing skipper last week."

https://komonews.com/news/nati...tain-naive-or-stupid


USN '79-85. A Chief once ripped me from one end to the other using every profanity I ever heard and then some. In ways only a professional could think of. When done I told him how moving and beautiful it was, like poetry. Big Grin


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The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart.
 
Posts: 13386 | Location: Bottom of Lake Washington | Registered: March 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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quote:
Originally posted by slabsides45:
My wife asked me last night, after seeing the ship's crew cheering for their ousted Captain, if the Navy wasn't making a mistake since his crew obviously loves him.

I told her history is replete with examples of popular idiots, whether political or military.


Re-visiting this thread after talking to my dad about this and then an hour later to my mom...

I was reminded of a chief telling me how things are broken down into four ways of getting things done...

Right thing the right way.
Right thing the wrong way.
Wrong thing the right way.
Wrong thing the wrong way.

Capt. C obviously got to his solution the right thing but the wrong way.

Trying to talk to my mom who was only focused on how the crew cheered him ashore, was tiring. My dad served in the CG and he got it immediately, and he said the Capt had his crew in the right place but he fucked up majorly ....

When I began talking about the bigger picture and that National Security was at stake, she couldn’t see it. When I mentioned that her father, a CDR USN and WWII vet who sailed the North Atlantic over ten times in convoys, would agree with me (about Crozier being in the wrong) she ....maybe...began to see, but then immediately said we are not currently at war.

I interjected and said yes we have been at war since 9-11. She immediately began ranting about how congress hadn’t declared war, so we were not at war.

Sometimes it’s better to let things lie. Mom has a kind heart and can’t see how Capt Crozier was wrong. And for the life of me I can’t convince her me and dad are right.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11247 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
Picture of sjtill
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Any former military SF folks have thoughts on the President’s response to question about this on the 4/6 news briefing? He’s getting personally involved, “doesn’t want a good man to lose his career because he had a bad day”.


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“ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
 
Posts: 18017 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
always with a hat or sunscreen
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quote:
Originally posted by sjtill:
Any former military SF folks have thoughts on the President’s response to question about this on the 4/6 news briefing? He’s getting personally involved, “doesn’t want a good man to lose his career because he had a bad day”.


Unlike the situation surrounding Chief Gallager, PDJT should steer clear of this one.

Not only did the TR skipper commit cardinal sins by violating OPSEC in addition to the chain of command, I'm hearing his wife works (worked) for Fusion GPS which raises a whole bunch of other red flags if true. Frown

The purge of decent senior officers by Zippy the Wonder Putz during his bowing reign has lead to the remaining progressive highest ranking promoting and culling additional like minded juniors into leadership positions. Crozier appears to be an example.



Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club!
USN (RET), COTEP #192
 
Posts: 16146 | Location: Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: June 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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quote:
Originally posted by sjtill:
Any former military SF folks have thoughts on the President’s response to question about this on the 4/6 news briefing? He’s getting personally involved, “doesn’t want a good man to lose his career because he had a bad day”.


Yeah, POTUS should let it be. The guy deserved shitcanning by pulling his stunt.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11247 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Question - wasn't it generally known that they had a coronavirus outbreak on the ship, before his letter leaked to the press?

I am not sure what top secret info his letter contained really. He said in the letter the ship could stay out to sea if need be, just that people would die unnecessarily. China is well aware of the coronavirus and knows that not everyone would have died and the ship would have still been operational.

I didn't see the nuclear launch codes or the GPS coordinates of our subs in there.
 
Posts: 2690 | Location: Baltimore | Registered: October 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by bald1:
Not only did the TR skipper commit cardinal sins by violating OPSEC in addition to the chain of command, I'm hearing his wife works (worked) for Fusion GPS which raises a whole bunch of other red flags if true. Frown
I think his son also works in IT and installed HRCs 'homebrew' server and his mom is Blasey Ford too. Roll Eyes

Sarcasm
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
quote:
Originally posted by sjtill:
Any former military SF folks have thoughts on the President’s response to question about this on the 4/6 news briefing? He’s getting personally involved, “doesn’t want a good man to lose his career because he had a bad day”.


Yeah, POTUS should let it be. The guy deserved shitcanning by pulling his stunt.

Agreed. Bad enough SECNAV poured gas on the fire with his speech to the crew.
 
Posts: 14573 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Agreed. Bad enough SECNAV poured gas on the fire with his speech to the crew.
Yeah, some stupid political desk pogue like an Acting SecNav running his mouth about it likely didn't go over so well with the crew.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Video of CAPT Crozier's piped departure

https://twitter.com/Alderaania.../1246060176345640961


Video from outside of carrier made it to my car group since he left in a Fusion. People were saying what a shame it was he was fired and he was only trying to get help for his crew. They have no clue what a collosal error the CO made. People are sheep



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 20757 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Video of CAPT Crozier's piped departure

https://twitter.com/Alderaania.../1246060176345640961


Video from outside of carrier made it to my car group since he left in a Fusion. People were saying what a shame it was he was fired and he was only trying to get help for his crew. They have no clue what a collosal error the CO made. People are sheep

Yes and I think it is because most uninitiated folks have no clue as to how damaging it is to national security to have leaked the degraded readiness status of a strategic platform. Notwithstanding the chain of command issues here, which are significant, but imagine if the Air Force said we can't man our missile sites or fly our B52's because of the virus, Or SOCOM telling us they can't deploy a special unit because of illness. That captain of all people knew better, of all people, but got caught up in his emotions over concern for his crew. He needed to go.


CMSGT USAF (Retired)
Chief of Police (Retired)
 
Posts: 4358 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
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Tell me Hayes, what's more important. That a Navy ship win a battle? Or that the crew and populace have warm fuzzies? [sarcasm off]




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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what a crap show

the Navy Sec. didn't need to use the inflammatory tone with the crew. unprofessional and unnecessary.

while the removal was warranted -- he has made a bad situation that much worse

maybe he was off his meds that morning

ETA:

and the acting Sec of Navy apologizes:

Navy chief apologizes to aircraft carrier crew, former captain after leaked speech
By John Bowden - 04/06/20 09:27 PM EDT

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly apologized to crew members of the USS Theodore Roosevelt and its former commander Monday evening over remarks he made earlier in the day calling Capt. Brett Crozier "naive" or "stupid."

"Let me be clear: I do not think Captain Brett Crozier is naive or stupid," Modly said in a statement obtained by several media outlets. "I think, and always believed him to be the opposite."

"I believe, precisely because he is not naive or stupid, that he sent his alarming email with the intention of getting it to the public domain in an attempt to draw public attention to the situation on his ship," Modly added.

Modley added, "I apologize for any confusion this choice of words may have caused. I also want to apologize to directly to Captain Crozier, his family, and the entire crew of the Theodore Roosevelt for any pain my remarks may have caused."

Crozier, the USS Theodore Roosevelt's former commander, was relieved of duty last week after a letter he sent pleading for help dealing with a coronavirus outbreak on the USS Theodore Roosevelt was leaked in the media.

Modly, in a speech also leaked to the media, said Monday that if Crozier didn't didn’t think the letter would leak, he was “too naive or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this” and that if he leaked the letter himself, he had committed a “serious violation” of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

Earlier in the day, Modly had stood by his remarks.

“The spoken words were from the heart, and meant for them,” Modly said earlier Monday. “I stand by every word I said, even, regrettably any profanity that may have been used for emphasis. Anyone who has served on a Navy ship would understand. I ask, but don’t expect, that people read them in their entirety."

The remarks earned swift criticism from Democrats, including a number of calls for his removal.

"Acting Secretary Modly’s decision to address the sailors on the Roosevelt and personally attack Captain Crozier shows a tone-deaf approach more focused on personal ego than one of the calm, steady leadership we so desperately need in this crisis," said House Armed Services Committee Chairman Adam Smith (D-Wash.). "I no longer have confidence in Acting Secretary Modly’s leadership of the Navy and believe he should be removed from his position."

---------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8940 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:
The remarks earned swift criticism from Democrats, including a number of calls for his removal.

"Acting Secretary Modly’s decision to address the sailors on the Roosevelt and personally attack Captain Crozier shows a tone-deaf approach more focused on personal ego than one of the calm, steady leadership we so desperately need in this crisis," said House Armed Services Committee Chairman Adam Smith (D-Wash.). "I no longer have confidence in Acting Secretary Modly’s leadership of the Navy and believe he should be removed from his position."

---------------------------

While Modly's comments may have been unnecessarily harsh, I sure wish those Democrat snowflakes, none of which have probably ever worn a uniform, much less held a command position, had been told to sit down and STFU.

Our potential opponents the world over must be watching this and thinking "These are the jokers that won two world wars?"



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:

Yes and I think it is because most uninitiated folks have no clue as to how damaging it is to national security to have leaked the degraded readiness status of a strategic platform.


I'm curious - how damaging is it?

On 3/24 - it was reported that there was a coronavirus outbreak on the ship.

On 3/27 - the ship arrived at Guam.

So at this point, the Chinese already know about the situation. The Chinese already know the carrier is docking in Guam. The Chinese are more familiar with coronavirus than any other country in the world and they likely realize the carrier will be down for a few weeks dealing with this issue.

On 3/31 - Letter leaks from Captain requesting that his already docked ship be allowed to properly deal with the issue by evacuating down to a skeleton crew and quarantining his crew to prevent further spread.

I just don't see the massive damage to national security. Is one single aircraft carrier keeping China from launching massive attacks against American assets, starting WW3? Does anyone believe that?

Did this guy go against chain of command protocol? Yes. Did he realize the implications of this act? I'm sure he did. But if what he did was such a grave act against national security, why is he still in the Navy, with the same rank?
 
Posts: 2690 | Location: Baltimore | Registered: October 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In a simple word Jeff, yes it is that damaging. We have 11 true carriers. Half are basically unavailable most of the time for normal reasons. Literally a huge chunk of strategic power projection is gone. And everyone knows it. They are moving a CBG from the Indian Ocean (basically covering Iran) to cover the bigger Chinese threat.

So no it’s not a big deal to you. The threats out there are all aware now. That’s bad on every level.

As to your last question, he is done. He will quietly leave the service in a fairly short time most likely. Not a lot of jobs for O6’s that are terminal in rank. I guess we could have hung him from the yard arm but removing him is pretty close to the same. Same thing happened to all those destroyer skippers who collided. It’s just the way it’s done. I’m sure in the Air Force it would be done differently but that’s what happens when you have less than a century or two tradition. Lol (had to pick on the Air Force it was too easy, even though it’s my navy that has been showing its ass of late)
 
Posts: 7347 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
In a simple word Jeff, yes it is that damaging. We have 11 true carriers. Half are basically unavailable most of the time for normal reasons. Literally a huge chunk of strategic power projection is gone. And everyone knows it. They are moving a CBG from the Indian Ocean (basically covering Iran) to cover the bigger Chinese threat.

So no it’s not a big deal to you. The threats out there are all aware now. That’s bad on every level.


I think it would be a much bigger deal to someone in the chain of command than to an outside observer.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nobody gives a shit about outside observers. It about our enemies knowing out readiness. Does no one play chess anymore?

This is a breach that could absolutely be exploited by our ENEMIES. What the American people think about this is literally meaningless. Most folks don’t understand common sense let alone military issues.

If you think it’s no big deal, fine. You are entitled to that opinion. Just know that everyone who actually understands global military strategy disagrees with you. You guys also conveniently ignore that this was done to send a message to any other Nancy commander who thinks tweeting out combat readiness information is ok, now once again knows it is not.

Edited to add: Outside of his unnecessarily gratuitous speech, canning this guy was the easiest decision in the world.
 
Posts: 7347 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Originally posted by AirmanJeff:
I just don't see the massive damage to national security. Is one single aircraft carrier keeping China from launching massive attacks against American assets, starting WW3? Does anyone believe that?
Me neither.

The status quo people who say it's horrible and the end of the world are the same folks who think we've been doing a good job in Afghanistan for the last 19 years, when in reality we've been feeding our fingers into a meat grinder and paying for the pleasure of doing it.

If the virus had ravaged that ship, it really wouldn't be that combat effective either - but the CINC would have thumped his chest and felt good about himself and all his ships 'being ready' - when in reality the Chinese would have known about that as well.

My opinion is sending a letter like that is punching your own time clock - he knew he was likely done, but felt it was the right call to make, considering the information he had. He likely has zero regrets at all.

quote:
canning this guy was the easiest decision in the world.
Agreed.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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