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| Freethinker |
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding and missing something about this question, but the AR500 Armor® company coats its steel plate armor with an anti-frag/spall coating that they claim to be very effective and have videos to demonstrate it. I have dealt with them a couple of times and been happy with their products and service. (The video is worth watching, not only for the information about their steel armor coating, but near the end showing the fragmentation from a ceramic plate—something I did not suspect.) LINK ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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| Not One of the Cool Kids  |
Not all of it. Body armor is one of the deepest topics I've ever undertaken and I'm certain there is still more out there I don't know that I don't know. In fact, as is too often the case, I didn't realize how ignorant I was of the topic until I learned a lot about it. After some studies, I bought a Kevlar sleeve for my AR500 plate and wish I'd spent more on a better brand. This is a link to download a how-to-buy body armor guide that a few of us wrote for Police One. I originally wanted to post a public link to it, but I'm thinking they would frown upon that. ATS Armor is a good company and they paid the bills, so the article surrounds their products. | |||
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| Member |
Stupid question. I tried to look for it but I got lost in too much information. If I own a plate carrier (wife got into and out of rucking) of good quality do I just measure the dimensions to see if it needs 10x12 or 11x14? III+ seems to be the best choice overall for me. If I order from AR500 do I get a curved one for front and flat for back? You guys sold me on the buildup material. That frag video was eye opening. | |||
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| Not One of the Cool Kids |
http://sixty-six.org/files/GUN...er_wear_of_armor.pdf | |||
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| Live Slow, Die Whenever  |
Im just starting my research into plate carriers/body armor. Seems like ceramic is the most popular choice if you can afford it. Whats the opinion of the forum on the side plates? Valuable addition or keep it slick and reduce the weight/bulk? "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." - John Wayne in "The Shootist" | |||
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| Member |
You guys are talking around the subject. AR500’s videos appear to support the idea that if you buy the “built up” option the effects of frag seem to disappear. You guys are talking around this and seem to be saying that isn’t true. Is the video with 50 balloons not getting any frag when shot at close range misleading? I understand a bare steel plate might kill you with frag but that video seems to indicate their anti frag rhino liner is more than enough. Yes or no and why if you say no. Are they lying? | |||
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| Member |
AR500 $129/$207 armor system Just saw this on their site. Is this a viable armor system for a non-LE regulae Joe? Pricing seems too good to be true? | |||
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| Member |
I would want rifle rated plates no matter what. FWIW. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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Who else? |
Level III can be penetrated by M193. It is a reasonable stop gap that is better than anything less. III+ is the minimum way to go if you're selecting steel plates.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jager, | |||
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Member |
These guys have Level IIIa, IIIa+, and armor to stop 5.56 and 7.62x39. https://safelifedefense.com/bo...tQ58wfxoCq34QAvD_BwE | |||
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| Not One of the Cool Kids |
Have you ever noticed that the more knowledgeable someone in on a particular topic, the more careful they choose their words? There's a reason for that. You're asking for black and white answers. The world is a thousand shades of gray. Body armor will either be a complete waste of money or the most important thing you've ever purchased depending on the decisions you make. I won't make that decision for you. Here's the thing: AR500 has had some questionable QC and business practices. You can find pages of examples with a simple search. I have some AR500 steel armor they gleefully sold me since I didn't know any better. After I (too late) did my due diligence, I bought a Kevlar sleeve for the front plate. The next time I buy hard armor, I'll be using a company like AT Armor where I can call and get some education prior to my purchase. | |||
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| Member |
Well see, that is more of a straight answer. You are saying don’t believe AR500 video. Their anti spall either works or it doesn’t. It is black and white. The video clearly shows it working. Your comments clearly say they are deceptive. Thank you for that. Tip toeing around the questions don’t help anyone. What makes AT Armor steel better? You sound like a salesman. You are bad mouthing steel from the one and saying steel from the other is better. Why? You say you don’t want to make my decision. Fine. Answering half way though doesn’t help me make any decision. Also not your problem. However, making sly remarks without saying why and then acting like knowledgeable people choose their words. Well no shit. But they also speak in full sentences. Come out and say don’t buy AR500 and this is why. Bottom line. I am looking at armor. AR500 seems like a good buy. Their anti frag coatings seem to work. Straight fucking answer without the subterfuge. Does it or not. That’s the issue. You seem to be tip toeing around the armor is bad but you just want to imply it without saying why. If you are in the business and don’t want to step on toes, ok, but ffs just give a straight answer. Saying the world is a million shades of gray is stupid. It’s armor. It’s heavy. There are other options that are lighter or more effective. If I’m going straight steel plates are these a solid choice. If anti spall coatings on steel aren’t very effective is there an effective way to stop or minimize frag? It’s not that difficult a question. You seem to imply AT armor does better. Why? Edit: I went to ATArmor website. Am I correct that they only sell composite plates, no steel? So if that is true are you just saying a general no to steel? The ceramic composite stuff is not my first choice because it is significantly more expensive and they quite clearly state on the AT website that it isn’t for “rigorous” use. It is for wearing a little and storing a lot. I might never wear this armor but it needs to be “not fragile” in storage and use. | |||
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| Not One of the Cool Kids |
This is exactly why you don't get straight answers. I'm guessing you have a lot of trouble with that. I'm not saying AR500 is deceptive. I'm saying I don't trust them. I have no idea if they're deceptive. Don't read into what I say. I didn't make any, "sly" remarks. I didn't say anti-spall coatings are good or bad. Some are. Some aren't. I don't know everything about every one of them. I didn't say anything about one company's steel or another. AT Armor is a company that sells armor. As I stated, they will educate you. Before you do that, calm down and think about this situation. You are asking for help and then treating people like shit. The reason you are struggling is because of you; not everyone else. Don't ask for help until you get control of yourself. Grow the fuck up. How's that for straight? | |||
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Member |
That's CYA lawyer stuff. Is it possible to damage ceramic plates? Sure. The military uses ceramic plates, they aren't exactly made out of styrofoam. | |||
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fugitive from reality |
I've been paying attention to this thread, but up until now haven't had much to say. The following video is from a guy with the screen name of EssTac on the M4carbine.net board. He is shooting an SKD SAPI plate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=gs3ZMoB3msE Notice there is some spall from the ceramic plate? That's what happens with a plate that has to 'yield' in order to stop a projectile. Steel doesn't do this, and because of that you need spall mitigation. The balloon test is a nice touch, but you're not a balloon. While is does show that the steel plate tested doesn't spall, it doesn't provide any useful information as to the level of spall of the ceramic plate. The notion that ceramic plates are somewhat fragile is liability talk. Unless you are fighting a war, with all the physical exertion that involves, I can't come up with a civilian scenario where you would 'wear out' a SAPI plate. I've got a set in a carrier that's been in my closet for about a decade and I'll be they're still good. Steel plates and spall protection has gotten a lot better than it was 10 years ago. If I were buying plates today, I'd probably go with a steel plate with a spall liner because sans getting shot they'll last a lifetime. _____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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| Member |
Screw you Warren. You are in the business of selling shit. You are clearly bad mouthing AR500 without providing context. You don’t trust them but they aren’t deceptive? What did they do to you that you are, whether you mean to or not, clearly badmouthing them but in the vaguest of manners. You are literally the girl implying to her friend that her boyfriend is cheating on her but won’t say why or how she knows. You clearly are pushing the convo to ATArmor. They don’t seem to sell steel, only Hesco composite. Unless you are brain dead, I’m in the market for the best steel, unless someone can point me to factual data why I should avoid steel. I get straight answers all the time. It’s kind of my line of work. In my business getting nonsensical non answers can kill someone. Maybe you should imply less and just state what you have experienced and let other people decide to take your word on it. Or not. Straight answers go a long way. | |||
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| Member |
Thanks Sgtgold. That is what I was asking. I get the liability stuff. I wonder about lifespan. Composites are clearly saying 5 years, steel 20 and that seems to be based on the over coat. I know Kevlar actually degrades. Does ceramic? I won’t buy armor and continually replace it. Hence steel seems to fit most of my criteria. Unless it isn’t very good armor which this 10 page thread has a smattering of people implying as much. Does the hive think degradation of composites/ceramic is also a non issue? | |||
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| Member |
Just be careful that you know what you're ordering. A lot of steel plates are not rated to stop (and are reported not to reliably stop) M193 or other 55 gr 5.56 loads. That is a SUPER common load in the US. I wouldn't want armor that wouldn't stop it. | |||
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| Member |
I am primarily focused on III+ steel. I agree that if didn’t stop the 5.56 you would most likely encounter it is useless. The composite stuff is too expensive for something I will probably never use in real life. Steel seems to be best compromise. | |||
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| Member |
I think you probably know there is no III+ standard so you are relying on the mfg. to tell you what exactly the plate will withstand and who and how it was tested. I have a set of steel plates which I got because they were cheap, but they add so much weight that actually using them for any activity is beyond my physical capabilities assuming I also have to carry a bunch of other essential stuff. I converted to the lightest ceramic plate I could afford. I have the steel stuff to give to someone else if there is a need. The best part for that is its not life limited. You can hurt the ceramic stuff but its much harder than you think. If steel fits your needs and budget have at it. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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