I have a C Crane CC Pocket, really a terrific pocket radio, takes two AA batteries. In its manual, C Crane advises the use of lithium batteries in their radios. Does anyone know why?

Some Lithiums have a slightly higher voltage than other types of batteries. So I read anyway. The excess voltage may harm your radio.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Some Lithiums have a slightly higher voltage than other types of batteries. So I read anyway. The excess voltage may harm your radio.

This is what I understand as well. I've had to change to alkaline batteries for some electronic devices because the user guides say anything over 1.5 volts is no bueno, and a number of brands of lithium batteries can go up to 3.5 or a little higher.

I'm not familiar with their product but a quick search says that some of their radios have a built in battery charger. Here's one thing I found:

Battery Power Level Indicator doesn’t show full charge when using
rechargeable batteries:
Rechargeable batteries will not show a full charge on your radios display. The
CC Pocket is calibrated to read the charge of your alkaline batteries, which is
1.5 volts at full charge. Rechargeable batteries, however, are fully charged at
just 1.25 volts, and so your radio will show a partial charge even if the
rechargeable batteries have been fully charged.

This is all I could find, have had almost zero small Lithium battery experience. I'm just now getting up to speed for H-D and their new Lithium motorcycle batteries. The chargers are different, they are now designed for Lithium and AGM battery use, from what I have read the old chargers for AGM batteries are not approved for use on Lithium. Another thing, the bike usage is very specific for certain years, from what I have found out the charging systems on many of the earlier bikes are not compatible with them, from what little I can find out it is due to the charging rate and alternator output.

I suspect the reason they caution against using lithium ion batteries has to do with the voltage issue as mentioned in previous replies.

While 14500 lithium ion batteries are roughly the same size as AA batteries, the nominal voltage ratings of most 14500's are generally between 3.6-3.7 volts. However, Fenix, among others, make a 14500 which is rated at 1.5 volts and thus is designed to be recharged only using a micro- USB port located near its button top.

You could undoubtedly use a this particular battery without harming the radio but I don't know that there would be any advantage to doing so.

Lithium or lithium ion?
Lithium ion is a rechargeable battery; ordinary lithium batteries like those sold under the Energizer name are not (as far as I know; I just throw them away when dead).

What are we referring to?

Added: I just checked a couple of unused Energizer “Ultimate” AA lithium batteries and voltages of both were 1.7 rather than the nominal 1.5. I would have thought that modern electronics would have some overvoltage tolerance, but perhaps that’s the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Lithium or lithium ion?
Lithium ion is a rechargeable battery; ordinary lithium batteries like those sold under the Energizer name are not (as far as I know; I just throw them away when dead).

What are we referring to?

Added: I just checked a couple of unused Energizer “Ultimate” AA lithium batteries and voltages of both were 1.7 rather than the nominal 1.5. I would have thought that modern electronics would have some overvoltage tolerance, but perhaps that’s the issue.

I’m almost certain that the manufacturer is referring to lithium ion rechargeable batteries. Lithium batteries, as above, can reach around 1.7vfrom the box, but I’ve seen many an alkaline battery that starts out at 1.6v as well. I would be shocked if the radio cannot handle a slight increase in voltage from (theoretically) 1.5 to 1.7, or 3.0-3.4 if running in series. I’d call the manufacturer and have them clarify.

Reminded me of Art Bell and Coast to Coast.
I believed CC radios were advertised on his show.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Lithium or lithium ion?
Lithium ion is a rechargeable battery; ordinary lithium batteries like those sold under the Energizer name are not (as far as I know; I just throw them away when dead).

What are we referring to?

Added: I just checked a couple of unused Energizer “Ultimate” AA lithium batteries and voltages of both were 1.7 rather than the nominal 1.5. I would have thought that modern electronics would have some overvoltage tolerance, but perhaps that’s the issue.

I’m almost certain that the manufacturer is referring to lithium ion rechargeable batteries. Lithium batteries, as above, can reach around 1.7vfrom the box, but I’ve seen many an alkaline battery that starts out at 1.6v as well. I would be shocked if the radio cannot handle a slight increase in voltage from (theoretically) 1.5 to 1.7, or 3.0-3.4 if running in series. I’d call the manufacturer and have them clarify.

To paraphrase G Carlin - Consider how dumb the average person is, half of you are dumber than that.

There's enough confusion here, even when correct voltage, terminology & chemistry discussions are taking place, imagine how many ways someone could screw up a device that can't handle Li-ion rechargeables (3V+). "well, if I can use lithium, I can use Lithium-Ion....."

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I’m almost certain that the manufacturer is referring to lithium ion rechargeable batteries.

I’m not so sure. The Crane site also says not to use lithium, but rather alkaline batteries, and I must believe that if they were referring to lithium ion, that would be stated. Lithium ion rechargeable batteries have been around for a long time, but in AA size evidently only a couple of years or so. I suppose it’s possible the company is just being cautious in believing that the average consumer won’t know the difference between li-ion and a nonrechargeable lithium, and just says, “Don’t use lithium.” Interesting question that might become more common in the future if people start using the rechargeables when they shouldn’t.

Added: snidera and I had the same thought.

If these radios are considered intrinsically safe (meaning that they’re safe for use in a hazmat area), then lithium batteries would render them “unsafe”. Other than that, I have no idea.

quote:

Originally posted by hairy2dawg:
lithium batteries would render them “unsafe”.

Energizer says their AA and AAA Ultimate lithium batteries are rated as intrinsically safe.

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Lithium or lithium ion?
Lithium ion is a rechargeable battery; ordinary lithium batteries like those sold under the Energizer name are not (as far as I know; I just throw them away when dead).

What are we referring to?

Added: I just checked a couple of unused Energizer “Ultimate” AA lithium batteries and voltages of both were 1.7 rather than the nominal 1.5. I would have thought that modern electronics would have some overvoltage tolerance, but perhaps that’s the issue.

I’m almost certain that the manufacturer is referring to lithium ion rechargeable batteries. Lithium batteries, as above, can reach around 1.7vfrom the box, but I’ve seen many an alkaline battery that starts out at 1.6v as well. I would be shocked if the radio cannot handle a slight increase in voltage from (theoretically) 1.5 to 1.7, or 3.0-3.4 if running in series. I’d call the manufacturer and have them clarify.

To paraphrase G Carlin - Consider how dumb the average person is, half of you are dumber than that.

There's enough confusion here, even when correct voltage, terminology & chemistry discussions are taking place, imagine how many ways someone could screw up a device that can't handle Li-ion rechargeables (3V+). "well, if I can use lithium, I can use Lithium-Ion....."

I suppose CC may be hedging their bets on some knucklehead putting two Li-ion batteries, but ruling out batteries that are far and away superior to alkaline cells just doesn’t make sense to me (as a non-idiot that can tell the difference). I can think of a plethora of other high end products that trust their customers to both read and comprehend directions in the manual.

And if a slight over-voltage is the issue, why don’t they warn people to check their batteries with a multi-meter to make sure their alkaline batteries are not over the 1.5v threshold?

As I said, I have had MANY alkaline batteries fresh out of the box at 1.6- 1.62v. To suggest that the high end product can handle 1.5v but not 1.7v (or 3.0v but not 3.2v respectively if in series) makes even less sense from a business standpoint. If that were the case, returns would literally be piling up in the warranty department for burnt circuits over a measly .12 to .2 voltage differential.

Para, perhaps you should just buy some quality ni-mh rechargeable batteries. They barely reach 1.5v when fully charged and have far superior power density when compared to alkaline, and as a huge bonus, won’t corrode under normal usage and destroy your electronics. I don’t ever put alkaline batteries in something I can’t afford to toss in the trash if it goes south. The manufacturer does say they are acceptable for use and run times will blow alkaline out of the water.

I don't know but while lithium last the longest they're not really the best value.

as you can see from this test.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I just checked a couple of unused Energizer “Ultimate” AA lithium batteries and voltages of both were 1.7 rather than the nominal 1.5. I would have thought that modern electronics would have some overvoltage tolerance, but perhaps that’s the issue.

I have an older Garmin handheld GPS that has known issues with brand new AA lithium batteries - it shuts down right after powering on. If I run the batteries down a little bit, they work fine. I suspect they're detecting a voltage out of their tolerance range and shut down to protect the device.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by hairy2dawg:
lithium batteries would render them “unsafe”.

Energizer says their AA and AAA Ultimate lithium batteries are rated as intrinsically safe.

Lithium batteries are prone to venting or exploding if mistreated, especially in multiple battery applications. They aren't necessarily unsafe, but you can't just throw them in a device and go either.

-edit- That may not apply to Energizer and Duracell, but it does apply to the lowest common denominator yahoo that gets a cheap Chinese knockoff or counterfeit battery from Amazon and blows half their face off.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Some Lithiums have a slightly higher voltage than other types of batteries. So I read anyway. The excess voltage may harm your radio.

I was reading the Q&A section of a C.Crane Skywave radio on Amazon and the seller (C.Crane) states that lithium batteries may register higher than 1.6 volts, potentially causing damage.

I use lithium AA and AAA batteries in all of my devices because the Duracells have been leaking. Frustrating...

quote:

Originally posted by Perception:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by hairy2dawg:
lithium batteries would render them “unsafe”.

Energizer says their AA and AAA Ultimate lithium batteries are rated as intrinsically safe.

Lithium batteries are prone to venting or exploding if mistreated, especially in multiple battery applications. They aren't necessarily unsafe, but you can't just throw them in a device and go either.

-edit- That may not apply to Energizer and Duracell, but it does apply to the lowest common denominator yahoo that gets a cheap Chinese knockoff or counterfeit battery from Amazon and blows half their face off.

I know that Li-ion rechargeables of various chemistry get the 'vent/explode' moniker, but do lithium primaries have that issue as well? I've never heard of it & it is a completely different chemistry.

As far a radio design, I'm clueless, but if 2x or 4x of AA in series causes a damaging issue due to ~0.2V/cell, your power conditioning circuit sucks (or more likely, is non-existent).

Hey, a thread just for me

Because it's a radio, somewhere on the back of the product or in the battery compartment, you will see, by federal law (CFR 47, part 15), an FCC logo and an FCC ID number (unless the product is too small, then the ID goes in the manual). (See "ETA" note below).

When you (as the radio product designer) apply for your FCC ID, they ask you pages and pages of technical questions. Some of the questions pertain to Power / Battery used during testing / evaluation. This testing includes "Electromagnetic Compliance" (EMC) testing among other things. If you EMC tested with "AA Alkaline," then you really should stick to that battery when selling the radio. Product Test time for EMC is expensive so they aren't likely to bother testing a bunch of battery types.

If you can find the FCC ID number, you can look up that number at the FCC.GOV website, and pull their technical report, to see if I'm correct.

ETA: The FCC procedures are constantly changing, and the process for receive-only products have changed, and depending on when the product was designed, it may not have the FCC ID, but testing was still required for radios (including receive only devices) and everything else stated above remains true.

Agree with the high voltage issue. New lithium has 1.7 volts, New alkaline has 1.58 volts.