quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another victim of Amazon.

Perhaps, but my impression is that most people still buy their clothes in stores, and it seems that whenever I'm in a department store, I'm shopping for clothes. I can't remember the last time I was in a JC Penney though.

My family typically tries things on in the store and comes home to buy from the internet. Not only is it cheaper, it is so much easier to deal with an Amazon return than it is to sit in "customer service" lines for extended amounts of time. I can usually find sufficient amounts of information online regarding a particular product whereas your common worker drone doesn't know his or her ass from a whole in the ground.

Nice.

What kind of a board would go to home depot to get a guy to run JCP???

That's way outside of "thinking outside the box."

Outlets are another part of this phenomenon.

Last place I lived was by an outlet mall. There wasn't anything I could get at a big box department store that I couldn't get for cheaper, in-person, at an outlet. And at a lot of those places, the sales reps actually know what's in the store!

For other stuff anymore I typically go to wherever is closest and convenient and get the closest to what I want as I can find on the shelf.

Age and professional attire has driven me to Jos A Bank and I am a fan.

Used to be the only place I bought shirts, socks and skivvies from. And I enjoyed leafing through their big yearly catalog, too.
See something in the catalog you want? Have it shipped to the store for free.
When they discontinued the catalog, I discontinued them!

JC Penney seems similar to Kohls or even Walmart these days. Try on what you can find and don't bother asking anyone questions. Quality of clothing varies a bit based on the store but that's about it.

Consider Duluth Trading and their model with higher quality products, higher prices, great service, and helpful people. They seem very popular and have a loyal following.

If there was a chain that was between Duluth Trading and JC Penney, it might do well. It could have fairly helpful staff, clothing that was better quality but midway in cost, and a good service/warranty model. They could be 20% higher than Amazon, but the convenience of being able to try things out and get decent help would be worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Death Throws are on Aisle 11

Jethros are in Automotive

Free throws on aisle 1 and 1.

They are closing the one in my town. It was one of the anchors of the new mall 50 years ago when I came to town as a student. Macys closed last month and the mall will turn into a dangerous ghost town. I got my first set of radial tires at JCP. My brother sold shoes there while he was in school.

Bought my first shotgun at the hometown JCP, the day after getting home from basic training..things have changed in those 40 years.

I feel bad for laughing, but there were 4 or 5 crazy funny posts on page 1.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
What kind of a board would go to home depot to get a guy to run JCP???

That's way outside of "thinking outside the box."

This took me a minute. When I first read it, I saw "board" and "Home Depot" and I thought how I always get my lumber at Home Depot. I need to slow down.

quote:

Originally posted by bcereuss:

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another victim of Amazon.

Perhaps, but my impression is that most people still buy their clothes in stores, and it seems that whenever I'm in a department store, I'm shopping for clothes. I can't remember the last time I was in a JC Penney though.

My family typically tries things on in the store and comes home to buy from the internet. Not only is it cheaper, it is so much easier to deal with an Amazon return than it is to sit in "customer service" lines for extended amounts of time. I can usually find sufficient amounts of information online regarding a particular product whereas your common worker drone doesn't know his or her ass from a whole in the ground.

Nice.

I know I am gonna catch shit for what I posted but I feel that if a company cannot do anything but throw stupid people in my way, then why should I feel obligated to pay extra for the hassle? Sure, a local mom and pop operation might be a little different, but when was the last time you saw any of those? We are talking about JCP, a company that once valued its customers, not its shareholders. When my daughter was younger, JCP was the only place we could find pants that actually fit properly. Sometime around 2010 they changed and started putting "adjustable waists" inside the pants. They were a pain but we dealt with it as loyal customers...Then came 2012 and the whorish clothes for 10-12 year olds. See through shirts, lots of half shirts that showed midriff. Low rise skinny jeans instead of regular jeans and dresses that would make a stripper blush...They began catering to a very different customer base. Clothing began getting thinner and thinner. A shirt that used to last all year now started lasting only a few wash cycles before they were obliterated. If I am going to get cheap Chinese shit, I may as well pay the least I can for it. I have no problem paying for a quality item but when you are selling garbage...well, I can buy that anywhere!

Should I honestly be expected to pay more for everything I get to support a business that:

Doesn't know my name.
Couldn't care less if what they have is what I need or want.
Doesn't secure my payment information (the only times my credit card information was stolen was when I purchased something at a brick and mortar store)
Offers nothing in terms of customer service or advice (most employees today are so enthralled in what is on their phone, I am shocked when I see someone looks me in the eyes)

Meh, keep spending your hard earned money with people who couldn't care less!

I did 6 years at JC Penney back in the early 90's. That and working in the Fire Service put me through college.

I worked in the Men's Clothing (suits, sport coats, slacks & outerwear) department. We were well trained, professional, and commission based sales people. One of the few departments in the store that offered a commission based pay structure and you could make pretty good money. We had a great product line that included suits from Hart Schaffner & Marx, Palm Beach, Henry Grethel, etc. An identical Hart suit at another store would run you $800. At Penney's $295-325. We had a huge department with dozens of selections in every size from 36 Short to 52 Long. Our department made Men's WareHouse look like a dime store in comparison in sheer floor space and selection.

We also had middle of the road and less expensive suits for those who only need them once or twice a year or in their life. If you came to see is we would guarantee that you would leave in a properl fitted suit and look as good as you possibly could. If you just got into town and your suit was wrinkled or a hem came out before a meeting, give me 5 minutes and you'd be on your way, good as new.

A few years after I left for my professional career I found out they took the commission structure away. Huge mistake. You could hardly find anyone who cared to help you. Then of course Hart went out of business and they started playing around with lines trying to attract the hip crowd instead of their bread and butter business customers. Slowly selections dwindled. A huge mistake as to be honest, back in my day, we got away with a lot others couldn't because we were the cash cow of the store. We led profits over every other department and that was pretty typical chain wide. We were the kings, now try and find a decent suit selection let alone anyone to help you much less anyone who knows how to properly fit a suit.

The last time I was there was in the early 2000's when I took a new young co-worker there for his first real suit. I had to mark the thing for fitting myself as the 'sales guy' was clueless.

The 'home store' venture was an absolute disaster. As was dropping many other very popular brands.

A lot of seriously bad management decisions got them where they are. Many of which toyed with James Cash Penney's fundimental business rules which where the company bible when I was there. Oddly enough as soon as they strayed, business fell off.

Oddly enough, I was in the area of the JCP HQ this week on a business trip. The hotel was full of managers and they seemed happy as clams, Definitely not people working for a company in its final twitches.

I'd bet if they went back to the model that was successful 20 years ago, things would start to turn around.

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another victim of Amazon.

Uhhh not at all. Who buys clothes online? No one I've ever met and I know I never would.

I like JCPenney and shop there a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by rat2306:
Bought my first shotgun at the hometown JCP, the day after getting home from basic training..things have changed in those 40 years.

Yes they have, I remember. ordering a Marlin bolt action 22 Magnum Model 783?-782? From Penney's.

I think I shot that rifle more than any gun I have ever owned. And I bought about 90% of my clothes there. Trends change, when our hometown mall opened many years ago, Penney's and Sears were the anchors,and families went to the mall.

Just curious, wasn't the founder of Penneys from Wyoming?

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Originally posted by Jus228:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another victim of Amazon.

Uhhh not at all. Who buys clothes online? No one I've ever met and I know I never would.

I like JCPenney and shop there a lot.

3 words: Sierra Trading Company

Montgomery Ward, Sears, and J.C. Penney all were tailored to the middle class. For sure Amazon and other online retailers have cut into these ontime giants of retail; however, the decline of the middle class in both numbers and economic health are two additional factors. As evidence of this note that retail store fronts are (at least in the areas I travel) expanding to serve two groups:

1. The working poor
2. And the upper-middle to the wealthy.

In other words, we are on the cusp of having and oddly shaped hourglass society.

Silent

quote:

Originally posted by bcereuss:

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another victim of Amazon.

Perhaps, but my impression is that most people still buy their clothes in stores, and it seems that whenever I'm in a department store, I'm shopping for clothes. I can't remember the last time I was in a JC Penney though.

My family typically tries things on in the store and comes home to buy from the internet. Not only is it cheaper, it is so much easier to deal with an Amazon return than it is to sit in "customer service" lines for extended amounts of time. I can usually find sufficient amounts of information online regarding a particular product whereas your common worker drone doesn't know his or her ass from a whole in the ground.

Nice.

Yeah, I agree this is the lowest form of respect.
If I am going to a store to use their facility and get assistance from a salesman ~ I would never just leave and go buy on the Internet.
Disgusting if you ask me.
If I go do my due-diligence fist ON the Internet then I may browse at a store then make a buying decision but no way let a store do all the work first.
Not right, not gonna do it.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:....If I am going to a store to use their facility and get assistance from a salesman ~ I would never just leave and go buy on the Internet.
Disgusting if you ask me.
If I go do my due-diligence fist ON the Internet then I may browse at a store then make a buying decision but no way let a store do all the work first.
Not right, not gonna do it.

I tend to agree. It is like intentionally taking someone's services, with no intent of paying for them. If a brick and mortar retailer provides me with a service not available on the internet, I should pay something for such.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by bcereuss:

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

My family typically tries things on in the store and comes home to buy from the internet. Not only is it cheaper, it is so much easier to deal with an Amazon return than it is to sit in "customer service" lines for extended amounts of time. I can usually find sufficient amounts of information online regarding a particular product whereas your common worker drone doesn't know his or her ass from a whole in the ground.

Nice.

Yeah, I agree this is the lowest form of respect.
If I am going to a store to use their facility and get assistance from a salesman ~ I would never just leave and go buy on the Internet.
Disgusting if you ask me.
If I go do my due-diligence fist ON the Internet then I may browse at a store then make a buying decision but no way let a store do all the work first.
Not right, not gonna do it.

This is not a morality / right or wrong issue. No one's being defrauded or taken advantage here. You think the board and management of JCP aren't aware of the internet?

You can go to any large mall, go to Nordstrom on one end, get someone to help you figure out what size of a particular brand of jeans you want. Then go to Macy's on the other end of the mall, see the same brand of jeans at a lower price and you can go to the particular size you want and buy it. You don't think Nordstrom knows about Macy's?

Retail is tough but to survive, stores are going to need to make a compelling proposition as to why consumers have to buy from them once they're in the door.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:....If I am going to a store to use their facility and get assistance from a salesman ~ I would never just leave and go buy on the Internet.
Disgusting if you ask me.
If I go do my due-diligence fist ON the Internet then I may browse at a store then make a buying decision but no way let a store do all the work first.
Not right, not gonna do it.

I tend to agree. It is like intentionally taking someone's services, with no intent of paying for them. If a brick and mortar retailer provides me with a service not available on the internet, I should pay something for such.

You are both right....I should never comparison shop anything ever, especially once I have gotten through the doors of a brick and mortar store. Next time I see a pair of Levi's in JCP that fit but cost $90, I'll go ahead and pick them up there as opposed to Amazon or some similar place for $45. I guess the MORAL thing to do would be to pay $45 extra for using a fitting room for all of 5 minutes, huh?

I cannot begin to fathom calling someone disgusting or equating saving money with thievery, but you two have seem to have no problems sitting up on your high horses and casting down judgement!



When was the last time you went to JCP, Kohls, or any other department store to try on blue jeans or T-shirts and needed the assistance of a "fitting specialist" and actually got advice that led to you getting anything other than what you had originally set out to get? You see, I generally know what size I need in jeans and t-shirts, and really, do people need to be fitted for just jeans and t-shirts? All I do, is go into a store to make sure that whatever brand I am looking for hasn't changed manufacturing process, their cut, or something else to change how they fit. If they have the best price (or even a reasonable price) I will buy it. However, if they are more than 35% more, I will walk and find someone who has a better price, typically an online vendor like Amazon.

I'll give you another example before heading out.

Let's say you are looking for a very particular vehicle. You have a list of must haves and cannot have, with a certain budget in mind. Do you just go to one dealership and buy the first one that meets a majority of your needs but is overpriced by 25% or more? If you have spent more than 5 minutes with a salesman at the dealership but decide to not purchase the vehicle, do you say "here's $500 for your time? No, you are going to look around for the best deal for YOU!

I am sure that neither of you:

Buy anything online, especially guns or parts (gotta use your local gun shop for that even though you could have saved $100's of dollars online)

Ever enter a brick and mortar store without purchasing something at FULL RETAIL price, because it's the right thing to do, otherwise you are wasting the retailers time and efforts to get you to buy something!