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A tourniquet can save your life. GRAPHIC, NSFW, lots of blood Login/Join 
Security Sage
Picture of striker1
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Great reminder. In some of our service areas (southside Chicago, etc.) we are now wearing level IIIA vests, and I think having one of those CATs would be wise.



RB

Cancer fighter (Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma) since 2009, now fighting Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma.

“Did you hear about the statistician who recently drowned in an average of 5 feet of water?”


 
Posts: 6825 | Location: Michiana | Registered: March 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
186,000 miles per second.
It's the law.




posted Hide Post
It sure can. I have a MOFA kit (including tourniquet) in my truck at all times. And I carry it when leading back-pack trips. Note that kid in the Carl's Jr. restaurant saved a woman's life after the recent shooting at YouTube. He used a bungie cord.
 
Posts: 2043 | Registered: August 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lost
Picture of kkina
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The male suspect was reportedly struck by gunfire 19 times, though not necessarily all direct hits. He had fired his stolen weapon 5 times. The female suspect was struck in the wrist by a police round when she crossed into the fire line.

Both survived and have been booked on multiple charges, including the weapons-related charges that started it all.

The police officer is said to have exhibited incredible valor by choosing not to put on rubber gloves before admininstering the tourniquet.

What happened in Vegas...
 
Posts: 11086 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: December 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Music's over turn
out the lights
Picture of David W
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Nice work by the officer to save the shitbag's life, hopefully this changes his course in life.


David W.

Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud. -Sophocles
 
Posts: 3042 | Location: Winston-Salem, N.C. | Registered: May 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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quote:
Originally posted by David W:
Nice work by the officer to save the shitbag's life, hopefully this changes his course in life.


I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully it dawns on the perforated fool that the man that he just tried to kill in turn selflessly saved his life.

Intense video. Keeping a med kit that also includes a tourniquet in one's car, home, range bag is indeed a good idea.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 20833 | Location: Out of Jersey, Into Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of jbcummings
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I just saw this in a “Gunshot Wound First Aid” course my wife and I took 2 weeks ago. While the officer saved the guy, he made some basic mistakes per the instructor we had. Carrying the CAT in his sock was good, but he didn’t have it already looped and ready to apply. We were instructed to carry them with the tongue already through the loop ring and folded up upon themselves letting the Velcro hold it together as a package. BTW that’s out of the cellophane original packaging. He would have been able to slip the tourniquet over the guys foot and bring it up to the thigh faster than fumbling around is a pool of blood trying to feed the loose end through the loop.

An arterial puncture like this will cause you to bleed out in 3 minutes. You start to loose cognitive ability after 90 seconds. Likely this guys was in the 90 second range maybe going toward the 3 minute mark. They also showed us a film of an officer getting hit during a stand off. He attempted to apply his own tourniquet, but for the same reason as above, got into that 90 second window where he wasn’t able to help himself. He lived, but only because another officer lucky enough not to get hit while going to his rescue and dragging him out of the line of Fire.


———-
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup.
 
Posts: 3959 | Location: DFW | Registered: May 21, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
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quote:
To the point, though, he said that they can be left in place for hours as has happened in military situations without causing serious problems.


Well, we have a personal friend, buddy to my grandson Nate, who took a hit through the artery on his thigh. They were in a combat situation, but they got a tourniquet on it. Flew him to main base hospital, where they amputated his leg due to gangrene. Ended up losing it half way up his thigh.

Interesting ending to that, he fought his way back to the team with a mid thigh artificial leg, and did a couple more combat tours. Only guy to return to SF duty with a leg amputation that far up.


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 23612 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
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Outstanding.

Monday-morning quarterback all you want, that Officer had a tourniquet and a mind prepared to use it. It's different when the blood is real!

I just did a refresher class that was bad ass yesterday. Best tactical medic class I've ever had. Last eval had us run, do pushups and flutter kicks, and then enter a room with strobe lights and death metal raging to treat a patient and move them. Stress makes things a LOT harder! I think after a few of us go to the instructor school for that particular class we are going to try to put the whole department through it. The rookies get about 4 hours of it in the academy right now...nowhere near enough.

Tactical Medical Solutions and North American Rescue have these ankle tourniquet holders. I used one for several years without issue.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10145 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Sigfreund- they make a neoprene ankle holster just for CAT tourniquets. About $15.

I carry one on me, 2 in my bag / first aid kit, along with 3 Israeli bandages (they have the quick clot imbedded in them).

I attended a 1 week LEMERT class a while back, and do the 1 day refresher class once a year. Great training! One of the better training evolutions I've been through. Crawl/walk/run/full sprint type class that, at the end enduces enough stress to make it as realistic as possible. Well worth the time if you can get to one.


_____________________________________________________________________

"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 5311 | Location: Just moved: Downtown Chi-Town | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
Flew him to main base hospital, where they amputated his leg due to gangrene.


Well, as always, the devil is in the details, especially in anecdotes. How long was the tourniquet applied in his case? If the circulation is cut off for a day or two then that’s far different from what I was referring to when I mentioned “hours.” In the historical literature it was indeed common for soldiers to lie on the battlefield for days and serious complications were obviously observed in such situations. And I don’t suppose that being shot in the leg had anything to do with the need for amputation—? That sometimes happens even if no tourniquet is applied at all.

In fact, a quick review of online articles fails to discover reports of amputations in modern military settings that were solely due to the application of a tourniquet, as discussed here.

Another thing the trauma department doctor who taught my class pointed out was that tourniquets are frequently used in surgery to limit blood flow: hardly a method that would be used if they were a serious cause of damage to healthy tissue.

In any event to reiterate: Which is more important, a leg or a life?

Added: Thanks for the information about ankle holders for tourniquets. Definitely something to look into.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38759 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Nice work by the officers involved.

WRT tourniquet use / amputation, it’s obviously a tool in the box and given the choice between bleeding out or losing a limb, that is an easy one to make. Obviously cuttting off blood flow to a part of the body is going to have negative effects if left on too long.

Being a civie, I don’t have one on me daily, but I have 2 in my range bag, in addition to a first aid bag and quick clot.
 
Posts: 40313 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
posted Hide Post
quote:
In any event to reiterate: Which is more important, a leg or a life?


Of course a life is more important than a leg.

As I understood the situation with our friend, it took them about 3 hours to get him to the main hospital via chopper flight.


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 23612 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Membership has its privileges
Picture of P-220
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That Officer performed extremely well, under unbelievable circumstances.

Kudos to him, for not only carrying a tourniquet, but being able to apply it in a battle situation.


Niech Zyje P-220

Steve
 
Posts: 34739 | Location: 45174 | Registered: December 09, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
it took them about 3 hours to get him to the main hospital via chopper flight.


I would bet a nickel, then, that there was more to the need for amputation than the tourniquet. Again referring back to my class, it was specifically mentioned that there should be no cause for concern up to four hours, and that in military situations they’ve been left on for twice that with no permanent problems (sometimes).

But individual situations vary and your friend’s drive to return to duty is the type of story we should all know. Glory to all heroes.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38759 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Another thing the trauma department doctor who taught my class pointed out was that tourniquets are frequently used in surgery to limit blood flow: hardly a method that would be used if they were a serious cause of damage to healthy tissue.

They are, but with pretty strict time limits. For us, we use two hours for legs and 90 minutes for arms. And this is with blood pressure cuff sized tourniquets, not the thinner straps that would be used in the field.

quote:
In any event to reiterate: Which is more important, a leg or a life?

Never seen Lonesome Dove, eh? Wink


________________________________________________________

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 15370 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
He also addressed the myths associated with tourniquets. I clearly remember being told in high school (50+ years ago) that they should be loosened periodically. That has been thoroughly discredited for a long time, but what is still believed is that they pose a great danger of limb damage. In the first place, of course, what’s better: limb muscle damage or death? A true “duh” question, but one that still gets people befuddled. To the point, though, he said that they can be left in place for hours as has happened in military situations without causing serious problems.

As far as carrying a tourniquet on one’s boot, I haven’t tried to research it myself, but does anyone know how that’s usually done? Are there special carriers for the purpose?


At the Dark Angel Medical class that Mrs. slosig and I attended a year or two ago, there were two instructors, Ross the head instructor and Kerry the company founder. They shared that the old wive’s tales about tourniquets costing limbs came largely from the civil war when the care was much different. Also they hit on the fact that a narrow “ligature type” band is much more likely to cause tissue damage than a modern tourniquet. They shared that there are records of modern tourniquets being on for sixteen hours without *any* tissue damage.

At that time, Kerry recommended (and showed off) a Ryker Nylon Gear (www.rykernylongear.com) AFAK (Ankle First Aid Kit). Mine has a CAT (in a plastic bag to keep the Velcro from getting gunked up), a plastic bag with several pairs of gloves, and three feet of gorilla tape wrapped up about card sized in one main pocket, a sharpie in the middle pocket, and a mini compression bandage and a pack of Kwik-clot gauze in the other main pocket. The inside pocket has a halo chest seal. The website says it includes a new elastic extension piece for full size boots. The extension that came with mine is just the same nylon with Velcro hook on one side and Velcro loop on the other and it works fine when I need it. Dark Angel now has their own ankle first aid kit on their website, but I have no experience with it.

I am impressed that the officer dove in and provided aid to the perp without taking the time to put on gloves. I don’t think I would have done that. At best, I might have flipped him over and put a knee to his leg near the groin to apply pressure while I put the gloves on. Good for the officer and I hope that he suffers no ill effects from providing the aid he did.
 
Posts: 3493 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of barndg00
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Muscle and bone tissue can be ischemic for a long time relative to brain/heart/liver/kidney tissues without long term damage (remember the pain of lactic acid accumulation when you exert yourself too much - this is the result of ANAEROBIC - without oxygen - metabolism, which muscles are actually pretty good at). Tournequits, properly applied, do not result in increased rates of amputation (though the injuries necessitating their use certainly may lead to it).
 
Posts: 1811 | Location: NC | Registered: January 01, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime
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For those that are not aware, there are only two approved tourniquets by the Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care.

Soft T Wide
http://darkangelmedical.com/softt-w/

CAT - Combat Application Tourniquet
http://darkangelmedical.com/ca...on-tourniquet-gen-7/

Here are the official training guides.
https://www.naemt.org/educatio...lines-and-curriculum

I saw that video a while ago, and it definitely shows that a tourniquet will save your life.

GO BUY A TOURNIQUET!!! I own several. I keep a med kit in my car, in my go bag, in my bedroom. I take it with me for all outdoor activities.

Buy some TCCC approved combat gauze as well (Celox rapid, Chitogauze, Quickclot Combat Gauze) which can quickly stop arterial bleeding when packed into a wound and pressure held.


______________________________________________________
Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow
 
Posts: 4976 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
John has a
long moustashe
Picture of john1
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I carry this in my left ankle https://www.rescue-essentials....l-ankle-medical-kit/ (with a TQ and Izzy bandage, $59.00 or so) and have another TQ in an Eleven 10 rigid case on the right front of my duty belt.

I started wearing the ankle outfit off duty now, too. It fits under most trouser legs and doesn't weigh much at all. Balances the J-frame on the other ankle.

The first time I had to TQ a guy (suicide attempt) I had to use an Ace bandage and a highlighter as that was all I had. It worked just fine. The second time I did have a SOF-TT wide and this guy was a motorcycle accident with an amputated leg.

I also carry a wide Sharpie to write the time the TQ went on.
 
Posts: 458 | Location: Behind enemy lines in Occupied Colorado | Registered: June 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Quiet Man
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Quick true story.

I once responded to a man who had been shot in the leg. He was a larger gentlemen, and the position he was laying in obscured the wound. When we rolled him to get a look the weight came off of his leg and it became clear his femoral artery was compromised. Every heart beat would send a spurt of blood arcing several feet into the air. Back in those dark days of the early 2000s, we didn't have factory tourniquets. I had to clamp that artery down with my gloved hand until we could improvise an effective tourniquet to control the bleeding. My partner and I looked like something out of a horror movie when the ambulance arrived.

Subject survived and my partner and I got some pretty ribbons to wear on our class A's. We also got new uniforms because the old ones were so heavily soiled with blood that they had to be burned. The human body contains FAR more blood than you would expect...

I'd STRONGLY advise every officer working in Uniform Patrol to carry an emergency kit containing a tourniquet, even if it is only for use on themselves or their partner. Train in how to properly apply it and practice. They are an absolute life saver.
 
Posts: 1626 | Registered: November 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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