My wife has a 2018 Imprezza (practically base model). I was more impressed with it when we were north of Albany in March of 2018, and drove 120 miles seeing close to 30 cars in ditches and never lost control. If you have never driven one in the wet, be prepared to be surprised.

Initially I though the 2.0l engine was underpowered, it is very spunky, and punches a solid 40-50 bhp above it listed bhp. I would not hesitate to pick up another when the time comes.

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Please share with all of us when you find a car of utmost reliability and absolutely no issues ever.............

The Subaru, is a interesting vehicle. Their awd system as has been mentioned is far advanced over pretty much everyone else's. Their handling is good. They obviously hold up well structurally. The engine history is problematic enough that it makes me think twice about buying. I know many swear by them. But enough swear them off because of historic issues to not consider a purchase at this point. And I liked the Outback we recently checked out.
The Assent had red flag reviews so it never was considered.

While the 4Runner is not perfect and is more money. It's engine is more reliable historically.
I know they are completely different rigs. But are two we currently thought would work for us. while both do different things well. Both would work for us for different reasons.

Agree on Subaru's being interesting and quirky.

In 2001 there was nothing else that could compare with the performance, practicality, and AWD of a WRX at anywhere near the cost. For the same money you could get a front driver, or spend a lot more to jump up to an Audi Quattro 1.8T. I test drove everything - Jetta VR6, Jetta 1.8T, Acura RSX Type-S, Acura TL Type-S, Altima 3.5L, I can't remember them all. Only rule was no Fords since I drove Fords/Mazdas for 7 years while working for Ford.

The bug-eyed, somewhat rough around the edges and unrefined WRX won easily. It was like getting all the performance of the others (and more) with the AWD thrown in for free. The Japanese market engineered 2.0L Turbo engine was very reliable and still pulling strongly at 200K. Problem is when they design engines specially for the American market (2.5L is a no go in Japan for a car of this size due to taxes on displacement over 2 liters). That's where it seems to go bad and the 2.5L is sorta proof of that.

200K with routine maintenance, fluids, plugs, tires (4 sets I think), brakes a couple times, two clutches (one for free early on due to judder issue, one towards the end due to wear).

Repairs were a leaky AC hose around 80K, a cracked radiator side tank somewhere in the 150K area, a leaky radiator hose shortly thereafter, and a corroding cooling water top tank. Couple recalls for the gas smell from the fuel rail rubber hose connection and other small stuff.

In the end, the cost of the impending 210K service with timing belt (and after 200K the water pump and guide rollers would have to be changed also since they won't last 300K), plugs, fluids, valve cover gaskets (weeping and oil burn smell but no drips), another round of brakes, and I can't remember what else but it was more than the car was worth, so I traded into a 2013.

The 2013 would still be with me if not for the valve lash issue and engine-out top-end rebuild by a dealer (Subaru N.A. paid half the bill at the labor/time rates for warranty work). A speed shop I consulted warned me not to do that kind of repair without a full rebuild with a blueprinted block because I could very well spin a bearing or lose a piston (cast aluminum pistons with a short land between top groove and crown have an edge breakage issue) and trash the engine.

Subaru is not a great engine designer. It's not hard to get 228 hp from a 2.0L with 8:1 compression and a 15 psi turbo. The result is similar to a sport bike engine - very peaky. But it was fun if you drive a manual and know how to use the revs. It's just that no one else did it probably because the drivability is bad for the average driver with an automatic. The 2.5L added much needed low end torque, but the extra power was proportional to the extra half liter. The 2.0L DI in the BRZ and the turbo version in the WRX needed Toyota's help. Subaru is married to the boxer because of how it directly interfaces the AWD drivetrain and fits in the engine compartment. Anything else would be much more complicated, expensive, and heavier, and they would lose the edge they have on AWD at reasonable cost.

I have no interest in non-turbo Subarus. I had a 2.0L Impreza loaner while the WRX was getting it's heads redone. The CVT sucks big time, and I had that thing floored and revving all the time to get it out of its own way.

Everything is a trade-off. I never expected to drive a car for 11 years and 200K miles, but it worked out. I expected to do them same with my second WRX but it didn't work out. Sometimes I think I should have kept it and driven it another 100K, maybe it would have been fine.

IMO Honda is the best engine build of the Japanese brands, and they have shown their engineering skill for many years in racing. When people said the 1.5L Civic Turbos could easily make more power, Honda said sure they can, but we build 200K mile engines and squeezing out more power would mean shorter life.

I have been looking at the Lesbaru myself. I am checking out the Outback and Crosstrek. I'm looking for a car that gets better mileage and has good reliability for some light offroad use and longer fly fishing trips from Utah to Montana.

I checked out 40K Outback with a 2" lift and off road tires that was badass. Not for me though.

The Crosstrek I like but haven't been able to try one on. I'm 6'4" tall and looking for better fuel ratings but I have to be comfortable inside.

I hope I fit inside because the Crosstrek has everything I am looking for in a car to handle longer drives with some light off road driving.

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Their awd system as has been mentioned is far advanced over pretty much everyone else's

Which system? not all Subarus have the same AWD system. The thing that makes Subarus different is that they aren't forcing a AWD system onto a transverse engine.
My all wheel drive BMW is every bit as good as any of my Subarus, if not better, primarily because it's rear wheel biased.

Like a typical beemer owner. Their's are the best. Great and good for you. Glad you think so.

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More Lesbian's percapita I am guessing

That is the stereotype, with some truth to it, but really everyone here who feels the need for a “get you there no matter what” car that won’t break the bank drives a Subaru.

Yes, they are a great snow and ice rig. That is a proven attribute. Engine issue's are as well, unfortunately.

Subaru's AWD system consists of what looks like a RWD transmission that contains the transmission, center diff, and front diff. Half shafts come directly out the sides to the front wheels, and a drive shaft comes out the back to the rear differential. It is symmetrical in dimensions and weight distribution, but requires a longitudinal engine and pushes it pretty far forward of the front axle, hence the flat 4 design. Nothing else fits, except the flat 6 on the larger cars.

Everyone else has a transmission and a separate transfer case, whether they are front drive based transverse engine and transaxle or RWD based longitudinal. They may function as well or better, but they are more complicated, heavier, less evenly distributed on weight, and more expensive. Reliability varies, but I never had a problem with any of the Subaru drivelines, only the engines.

If you go Subaru, get a full size spare tire and do a 5 tire rotation. The 5th tire is a hedge against having to replace all 4 tires in case you destroy a tire. Also, it means that you can continue on your trip without interruption. Rotating every 5k miles keeps the tires about the same rolling circumference.

Maybe this will help, but then again, maybe it won't given how closely CR rates two of the vehicles:

Overall rating for the Outback vs Highlander vs 4 Runner





Specific to the Outback:



Specific to the Highlander:



Specific to the 4 Runner:



We've never owned a Toyota but we can speak to the Outback. We are the original purchaser of a 2015 Outback with the 4 cyl. engine. We went with the limited version so it included leather, etc. We have 65k worry free miles on it thus far and there has been zero non-maintenance repairs (one new battery, windshield wipers, 4 new tires to replace the awful original tires).

The car is used around town and has made many trips from St. Louis to Roanoke to visit our daughter. So far of our similar other vehicles (Honda Accords, VW Passat Wagon, Volvo V70 Wagon, GMC Acadia), and I'll quote my wife, the Outback is by far "my favorite, most comfortable, and best looking) of them all.

From the utterly practical perspective our "expense cost per mile" is the lowest at $0.015 per mile.

We give it 2 thumbs up!

I had a 2015 Legacy with the 3.6 engine. I put 77k miles on it before trading it in. I had no issues. All season tires with their awd system worked fine for me in Ohio winters and I drove a lot before the roads got plowed because of work.

The Legacy is the "sedan" version of the Outback. I was going to trade into the Outback but I got a better deal to go back to BMW. For some reason I'm not that confident with the BMW so I got smaller snow tires/wheels for winter and a bigger setup for summer. It's probably not the xdrive system but the low clearance.

We have a 2013 Outback 3.6 that has been trouble free with one exception- the boxer drank oil like an ally drunk drinks ripple. Subaru replaced the long block under extended warranty. Still ran like a champ, but the massive consumption was a concern. The new block has the right rings on the pistons, evidently- no consumption and the same impressive power.

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Originally posted by Chowser:
For some reason I'm not that confident with the BMW so I got smaller snow tires/wheels for winter and a bigger setup for summer. It's probably not the xdrive system but the low clearance.

Tires make a world of difference once you start driving in real snow. I see it every winter watching the people slide all over and off the road with their 60k mile rated 'all season' performance radials.

My 2012 Outback came with ContiPro Contacts. They sucked. They were barely adequate in the dry, never mind the wet and snow. At 35k they were toast. I replaced them with Michelin Defenders and never looked back. When I had an Acura RSX I had summer and winter rims, it's the only way to go.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...935/m/2760052864/p/1

Be vewy careful. Subarus have some interesting attributes.

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Originally posted by tanksoldier:

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More Lesbian's percapita I am guessing

That is the stereotype, with some truth to it, but really everyone here who feels the need for a “get you there no matter what” car that won’t break the bank drives a Subaru.

Every time I read this sort of comment it reminds me of this joke:

An old cowboy sat down at the bar and ordered a drink. As he sat sipping his drink, a young woman sat down next to him. She turned to the cowboy and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"

He replied, "Well, I've spent my whole life, breaking colts, working cows, going to rodeos, fixing fences, pulling calves, bailing hay, doctoring calves, cleaning my barn, fixing flats, working on tractors, and feeding my dogs, so I guess I am a cowboy."

She said, "I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about women. When I shower, I think about women. When I watch TV, I think about women. I even think about women when I eat. It seems that everything makes me think of women."

The two sat sipping in silence.

A little while later, a man sat down on the other side of the old cowboy and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"

He replied, "I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian."

Having discovered I'm a lesbian, I can come out and say I really like my Outback.

My wife loves her 2018 Outback Premium. I like that she and our baby are safe.

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Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Like a typical beemer owner. Their's are the best. Great and good for you. Glad you think so.

I was talking about the AWD system. Nothing necessarily superior about the Subaru systems.

I currently own a 2000 Forester, and have owned a 1999 and 2003 Outback.

Here's a video explaining the difference in the different systems that subaru uses:

Subaru , the Glock 19 of automobiles.

i Know there are millions of satisfied Subaru owners which says a lot.

I am just not going to buy one this go around. The power plant is such a big part of an automobile. And while issues with their motors might not be huge statistically. It is enough of a reoccurring situation that to this point is not behind them. For me at least.

I appreciate all the discussion about them in this thread.