Definitely.

People are either have morals or they do not. Religion does not make one moral- I’ve met plenty of “religious” people that were severely lacking in moral behavior. Greed and laziness paired with an erosion of what being an American means are what is infecting us.

When a country or an individual leaves God out of their life you're definitely heading for a downfall. Usually it's very slow but it's going to happen. But He's a loving God and it can be turned around.

Yes!

Not lack of faith or religion .....more the loss of American exceptionalism.

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Not lack of faith or religion .....more the loss of American exceptionalism.

I would agree, it's connected to work ethic, I've seen it over time trying to find reliable guys in the trades. There is a crisis of entitlement that is not connected to how religious someone is or isn't. Everyone is special, pursue your dream, everyone goes to college...

10-15 years ago I would have answered differently. Now my answer is unequivocally YES! I am not a particularly religious person, and not a regular church goer but I am going to try to improve my church attendance. I do pray regularly and am a believer in Christian tenants however. Ultimately I believe more and more as I get older and spend more time in law enforcement that religious faith is an important part of a civilized and successful society.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
....do you think we as a country have lost our way because of a lack of faith in God, a god, a universal power?

No
What is the measure for "lost our way"? It’s very subjective obviously. Usually that statement is trotted out by religionists who are not getting their way e.g., faculty led prayer in public schools or prohibition of recognition of a religion at publicaly funded institutions etc..

Regardless, that is a very (religion)-centric view. If it was true then every other society that does not subscribe to (religion) would be in chaos and that is simply not the case. Morals and ethics evolved out of the evolution of society, even isolated societies, and they are pretty consistent regardless of the deity or central figure worshiped. This illustrates that causing harm is usually from a lack of compassion, not a lack of religion.

Yes.

Whether there is a god or not this country was a better place when most (or more) people believed there was.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
People are either have morals or they do not. Religion does not make one moral-

Morals/correct behavior are instilled at a young age in the family. Whether one parent or two, that is where they start. Certainly tougher in a one parent family. Once the child understands the difference between right and wrong, the PARENT reinforces it.

(Now we have “parentless” families - parents that want to raise their kids as their friends.)

As the child grows they learn that society has rules too, but with religion there is a knowledge that there is something bigger than myself. My God watches over me AND is there to guide me when my parents are not. No matter how you read it or follow it, there is a little angel or devil on your shoulder saying “yes you should” or “no you shouldn’t”. That had been instilled at a very young age. If it wasn’t then that child may grow up to resent a society that tries to “keep it down”. In actuality the society is now trying to do the teaching of right and wrong. The job the parents should have done.

Now we have govt. saying there is no God and it is all about you, have it your way. Without parents guiding and a learned, intrinsic self control, we have several generations of “devolution”.
This self centeredness and lack of parenting is a part of our developing culture of violence. If the control goes away, if the sewer pipe breaks open.....

This is what we are seeing. No simple minded politician is going to come up with a law that will solve this. It has taken several generations to get here. I don’t think we have hit bottom yet. Once we have it MAY take several generations to turn it around.

Remember how everyone was unified on 9/12/01? That type of unification could turn it around, but it would likely take a world war to do it, or maybe a world depression (resulting in a world war?) Otherwise it will be a long, slow pull to come back.

On a tremendous scale we are living and seeing the example of “Spare the rod.....”

Yes. Big Deal said everything I was thinking in his first post.

correlation / causation and all that.

but i am highly inclined to be a 'yes' vote

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quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Not lack of faith or religion .....more the loss of American exceptionalism.

I would agree, it's connected to work ethic, I've seen it over time trying to find reliable guys in the trades. There is a crisis of entitlement that is not connected to how religious someone is or isn't. Everyone is special, pursue your dream, everyone goes to college...

“He who is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.”
Proverbs 18:9

Every communist government that has existed,has tried to eliminate religion from it's society.They know that communism and religion can not coexist.Throughout history when a civilization disregards it's morale code it always leads to bondage and destruction.

Humans go through the same pattern over and over again.

“Lost our way”? “Downfall”? To answer the question we must first decide what those expressions mean.

If they refer to the fact that the acceptance and promotion of certain ideas have changed over time, is that due to lack of religious belief? My answer is no.

In many societies, especially in America and the rest of the “west” in modern times, religion changes more due to cultural changes than culture changes due to religion. I.e., religious belief and practice try to keep up with what members of a society believe and practice, and try to avoid becoming so irrelevant to the people that they reject religion entirely.

There are countless examples of what I’m referring to. The current Pope’s apparently softer attitude toward the question of priests’ celibacy is one: The sexual abuse scandals and difficulty of recruiting new priests because of that tradition are a couple of strong reasons why the tradition is being challenged. Another is the church’s stance on artificial birth control. When enough women (and men) say, “Nope; don’t preach to me about how that is sinful,” what happens? Many priests who are faced with shutting up about the subject or losing adherents will indeed shut up about the subject.

When enough people decide that they can no longer accept religious tenets, then those tenets will change. That’s why so many Christians today are quick to label stories of Adam and Eve in the Garden with talking snakes and booby traps set for the ignorant innocent, Noah’s ark, people rising from the dead, etc., as metaphors or allegory rather than the literal truth of historical fact. Do some people still believe that a particular bible is the literal description of all historical events described? Sure, but it’s a far smaller percentage than a couple of centuries ago. And it’s not only the conflicts between obvious scientific and historical facts and the Bibles, it’s the moral lessons as well.

It’s common for Christians who are challenged about the problematic elements of their religious beliefs to fall back on the, “You need to find a knowledgeable person who can explain it to you.” The problem is that every “explanation” is based on personal agendas. At one time slavery in this country was justified by Christian clergy, mostly in the South, who used the Bible for support. And of course they were right: there are many stories that demonstrate that slavery was condoned and common among the “Chosen People” in ancient times (as was true in countless other societies). Now, however, slavery is condemned by most people in this country and therefore few, if any mainstream clergy will preach in its support.

There are many other examples that demonstrate that it’s not because people have become less religious that our society has changed, but rather that religion has changed because society changed: I.e., the people changed first, including rejecting what they considered the incorrect or unreasonable demands and teachings of religion, and then religion changed to catch up; not the other way around.

The fact that religion can only change so much, though, is why so many people have given up on it entirely, and the same is true of not only Christianity. The secular religion of Communism has been largely rejected in Russia and heavily modified in places like China and Vietnam.

I am, of course, not claiming that religion never changes societies; it happens frequently. The rise of religious type socialism and its move toward Communism in this country and the rise of fundamental Islam elsewhere are current examples, as was Nazism in the past.

But the question of why American society has changed still remains. Some things are relatively easy to explain. The welfare system has contributed to the destruction of—if not completely destroyed—the family among certain groups, and that has led to countless other problems. Effective birth control (plus the welfare system) completely changed sexual attitudes and practices. Other changes can also be explained, but not so easily and simply.

quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
Lack of faith = poor ethics & values > Yes

Lack of faith ≠ poor ethics & values. Lack of ethics and values = poor ethics and values.

I was brought up in what otherwise would have been an Episcopalian family, save my father, for reasons I never knew, was opposed to religion. But we were still brought up to be honest and ethical. To be men of our words. To treat others with respect. To respect our elders. Etc, etc.

Have I fallen from "grace" on occasion? Yes I have. I am, after all, only human. But, overall, I believe myself to be highly ethical. Besides: I found out at an early age I'm a horrible liar. Same reason I'm a horrible poker player: I wear my heart on my sleeve.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
People are either have morals or they do not. Religion does not make one moral- I’ve met plenty of “religious” people that were severely lacking in moral behavior.

Boy, I learned that at an early age.

Couple of kids in the neighbourhood. Irish family. Catholics. One day one of them told me, and I never forgot this incident, that he could do whatever he wanted all week long and all he had to do was go to confession at the end of the week and his slate was wiped clean.

"That," I thought to myself, "can't possibly be how it's supposed to work."

I never trusted those kids.

I’m not a religious person at all but it’s pretty obvious society is getting worse. My personal gauge is seeing how people treat each other in general public situations and on the roads. Makes me sometimes wonder how long it’ll be before the roads resemble a Mad Max movie with all the road rage, etc.

As a non believer I would love to see this country get back to Judeo-Christian times/beliefs. Wouldn’t bother me one bit.

Definitely not a lack of faith. I have no faith, no religious beliefs whatsoever. But I am a moral upstanding conservative citizen.

That being said I was raised Catholic, at least up until making confirmation. So morals were taught to me as a child. Did I need religious teaching to make me a moral person? I hope not.

I think it's a combination of many things. I agree with the boss on dissolution of family. But I'd go further. To me I literally see a "de-evolution" happening. Not like on Star Trek where people are becoming lizards. But the left has continued to make policy which encourages those incapable of caring for themselves to breed more and more children that are incapable of caring for themselves. They have instilled the sense of entitlement on these same people. There is no sense of morality or family and most importantly no sense of personal responsibility. This has less to do with faith and more to do with genetics. Sorry to say this but there are a lot of people with no common sense and no ability to support themselves, or at least no desire to do that.

The people in power on the left use this as a tool to gain more power. Their idiotic followers repeat what they are told. It's a vicious cycle.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:

quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
Not lack of faith or religion .....more the loss of American exceptionalism.

I would agree, it's connected to work ethic, I've seen it over time trying to find reliable guys in the trades. There is a crisis of entitlement that is not connected to how religious someone is or isn't. Everyone is special, pursue your dream, everyone goes to college...

I would say that part of it...there are many, there was and is to a certain degree (depending on location, socio-economic and other factors) a certain ethos amongst Americans...hard work, pride in who we are.....feeling that you are part of something larger