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Member
Picture of jcsabolt2
posted
I had a little bit of emergency medical training this weekend for our church security team where we talked treating gunshot wounds. It wasn't anything fancy, just what kind of things are useful to have and how to use them. We are working on putting together some kits...others are working on it. However, I wanted to ask the forum, what do you find useful to have in your IFAK. I have seen some that I consider lacking considerably to that is just way too much gear to keep on my person. Also, where did you get your case...again seen these run inexpensive (Chinese) to stupid expensive. I would prefer some kind of ankle rig or something flat that could lay close to the body on a belt.

Thanks!

P.S. Pictures helpful too along with where you got your gear, brands to use, stay away from, etc.


----------
“Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf
 
Posts: 3207 | Location: OPSEC | Registered: July 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Interesting question whose answers I will be interested in.

A few thoughts of my own, though, about IFAKs that are small and light enough for routine carry:

In my view, the most important items to have in the IFAKs in my car, at home, and on a “tactical” vest are tourniquets and clotting aids to stop severe bleeding, and chest seals. My kits contain other things as well, but those are most critical, IMO, and they would be difficult to fit into the on-body carry packs you describe. My thought is, if I can’t carry the most important items all the time, why put up with the inconvenience of carrying other stuff?

Carrying a complete IFAK all the time for immediate use makes sense for people like soldiers or “tactical” police, and perhaps even patrol officers, but why can’t the rest of us have kits available, but not being carried, at work, home, in the vehicle, or in the case of something like church security, stashed in a convenient location? If the purpose is self-aid when it may not be possible to get to a complete kit, a single tourniquet can be easily carried in a variety of ways.

But as I say, I am eager to learn that I’m wrong.

Added: An opinion about the “SWAT-T” tourniquet. I have taken a few classes that exposed the students to that tourniquet that is simply a length of a wide rubber strip with markings to help show when it has been applied tightly enough. Even in a classroom setting I found applying the device properly to be very difficult, and can only imagine what it would be like in a trauma situation. The SWAT-T may be better than nothing in some circumstances, but if I’m going to rely on having a tourniquet, I’ll have one that I know will work and doesn’t require gorilla fingers to apply. Again, though, I would be very interested in contrary opinions.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40484 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Adventure Medical Kits Trauma pack, backed up with a TQ and an Israeli bandage. fairly light and easy to carry.
And make sure your kit is waterproof.
And you may be better off to build your own to suit your needs.
AMK has pretty decent stuff for the $$$.
Others will chime in with good suggestions.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 9347 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
You looking for a kit to keep available at the church? Say with the AED? (Which you will be multitudes more likely to use than an IFAK.)

Or something to carry on you all the time?

I’m a TacMed instructor and wrote the IFAK program at my last department and I’m in the middle of helping roll out the IFAK program for my current one. It’s easy to over complicate.

The two most basic things are a tourniquet and gauze. There are lots and lots of tourniquets, but the CAT is good and it works. H&H vacuum sealed gauze is about as compact as you’ll find gauze. Those two things and some duct tape rolled small will fix any problem, with the proper training, that any trauma class for non-EMTs can come up with.

If one wants to keep spending money, and has somewhere to put it, the sky’s the limit. If you want to stock a larger kit then the obvious next items would be more gauze, pressure dressings, chest seals, trauma shears, and a blanket.

A proper kit can be built for well less than $100. The bags used often cost more than the items.

When at work I keep one CAT on me in one cargo pocket, and a SWAT-T, a small roll of duct tape, and an H&H in my other cargo pocket. My bag? A Ziplock.

And about a grand worth of other supplies in various kits in my patrol vehicle. But those aren’t guaranteed to be available in the middle of the shit going down.


I recommend you find someone who teaches Stop The Bleed and have them do a class for your group. Training is the most important thing. Good training. You can save a life just by putting one pound of pressure on the right spot until someone gets there with more equipment, but you have to know the spot. Or by using a pair of boxers as a tourniquet and a shirt to pack a junctional wound...but you have to know how to do it.

And I wasn’t being snarky about the AED. Make sure your group (or anyone in the church that wants it) is trained in CPR. It’s easy and relatively inexpensive.


You’ll notice one thing I didn’t mention was hemostatic gauze. Spend the money on good training and buy the $1.50 gauze instead of the $45 gauze.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10514 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
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I will recommend the OALES pressure bandages by Tactical Medical Solutions above all others. With everything else any brand is probably just about as good as another. Just make sure you buy whatever tourniquets from a reputable source so you know they aren’t knock offs.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10514 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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I've got a SAM XT tourniquet, a SWAT-T (two of these, actually- one of which fits in a pocket of my Blue Force Gear AR magazine bandolier), QuickClot gauze, a Victorinox Swiss Army Classic SD knife (yellow handles), a 6" Israeli bandage, a roll of cloth tape, a small pill box containing aspirin, tylenol and advil, various size band-aids, a few 2x2 sterile gauze, some of those small packets of antibiotic ointment. Maybe I'll add a SAM Splint and a small flashlight.
 
Posts: 88649 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
I will recommend the OALES pressure bandages ....


Thanks for that.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40484 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
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Sigfreund-

I like the SWAT-T for what it is, understanding its limitations. I agree, not the best solution as a stand-alone tourniquet. I carry one because it’s small and can be used as a pressure dressing well, and a tourniquet if you’re lucky. But no doubt it’s not easy to self apply. The CAT is one of the best for that, hands down. I won’t call it “the best”, but one certainly won’t go wrong with a CAT.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10514 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of BlackTalonJHP
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I've got the standard stuff
SOF-T
SWAT T
CAT
Isreali Bandage T3
NAR trauma dressings
NPA
HyFin chest seals

My only concern is the expiration dates of some of the stuff I have and if it matters that much.
 
Posts: 146 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 18, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BlackTalonJHP:
I've got the standard stuff
SOF-T
SWAT T
CAT
Isreali Bandage T3
NAR trauma dressings
NPA
HyFin chest seals

My only concern is the expiration dates of some of the stuff I have and if it matters that much.


The only thing I’d be concerned with is the adhesive on the chest seals drying out.

The other stuff is most likely a “sterility” date. Studies have shown expired stuff like gauze to remain sterile if the packing is intact for a loooooong time.

And they will be getting IV antibiotics either way.


I’ll add that newer versions of the CAT and SOFT are significantly improved, depending on the generations you have.




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10514 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think I have Gen 4 CAT? Grey tab?
IIRC the SOF-T I have has a metal windlass
 
Posts: 146 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 18, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
still exist
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For those with CAT tourniquets, be careful of counterfeits from China.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/c...rophic-consequences/

WASHINGTON -- CBS News has learned of an alert from New Hampshire that has implications for first responders across the country and the military. It concerns tourniquets, medical devices that can save lives by stopping blood loss. We've learned that counterfeit tourniquets that easily break are showing up around the country. The bulletin went out to New Hampshire first responders after paramedics experienced a "catastrophic failure" with two counterfeit tourniquets at the scene of a motorcycle accident. Sources say a rod snapped in half as the paramedics tried to stem a hemorrhage on a victim with a leg injury. That made it impossible to tighten the tourniquet -- a failure that could prove fatal. The counterfeits were knock-offs of the combat application tourniquet, or CAT.


.
 
Posts: 8186 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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I wear a Ryker Nylon Gear AFAK (ankle first aid kit). Chest seal in the inside pocket, CAT, ziplock baggie of gloves, and 3’ of 2” wide gorilla tape folded/wrapped about hotel room card size in one outer pocket, QuikClot gauze & mini compression bandage in the other outer pocket, with a sharpie in the mini pocket between the two.

Each car or truck has a DARK kit in it.

The wife and I have been to the Dark Angel training class. The kids should probably go before too long.
 
Posts: 4323 | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My daughter is a physician with a Special Warfare unit. Her job includes emergency medical training for USAF Pararescuemen. She did a range medicine class last year for a group of my associates who are instructors or RSO's. Here is a list of items she recommended for the range officer's kit with links where you can get these items. Brand names are important because of the knockoffs. What follows is what the PJ's carry.

COMPANY ITEM DESCRIPTION
North American Rescue
CAT Gen 3 TQ
https://www.narescue.com/comba...ion-tourniquet-c-a-t

NAR S-Rolled Gauze
https://www.narescue.com/milit...e/nar-s-rolled-gauze

Combat Gauze Z-fold Hemostatic
https://www.narescue.com/comba...ze-z-fold-hemostatic (for wound packing)

Hyfin Vent Chest Seal Twin Pack
https://www.narescue.com/hyfin...chest-seal-twin-pack

Chinook Medical Blizzard Survival Blanket
https://www.chinookmed.com/051...urvival-blanket.html

CoFlex LF2 Foam Bandage 4”
https://www.chinookmed.com/051...f2-foam-bandage.html

SWAT-T Tourniquet
https://www.chinookmed.com/500...at-t-tourniquet.html

Combat Medical Battle Bandage
https://combatmedical.com/shop..._circ_battlebandage/

OTHER Sharpie markers, shears, tape

I managed to get all this stuff but the blanket into a 5.11 IFAK belt kit with the tourniquet in a pouch attached to the outside. I keep a larger bag with more stuff in my truck. Now I am looking for an affordable AED for the truck.


CMSGT USAF (Retired)
Chief of Police (Retired)
Florida Class K Licensed Instructor
NRA Certified LE Handgun/Shotgun/Rifle Instructor
SIG and Glock and Springfield 1911 Armorer
 
Posts: 3004 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I picked up one of these (advanced) from North American rescue that goes with me to the range.

Link


_________________________________________________________________________
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The afternoon knows what the morning never suspected.
-- Robert Frost
 
Posts: 7338 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime
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At a church you dont need anything on your person. I'd make up several medical kits and stash them around the place.

I'd probably copy these throw kits, and then have one big well stocked bag.

https://www.tacmedsolutions.co...K-Casualty-Throw-Kit


______________________________________________________
Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow
 
Posts: 5480 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ignored facts
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:
You looking for a kit to keep available at the church? Say with the AED? (Which you will be multitudes more likely to use than an IFAK.)



this. if you don't have an AED there, get one.


.
 
Posts: 8186 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Kampfhamster
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quote:
Originally posted by chongosuerte:

If one wants to keep spending money, and has somewhere to put it, the sky’s the limit. If you want to stock a larger kit then the obvious next items would be more gauze, pressure dressings, chest seals, trauma shears, and a blanket.



This is the reality. But keep it simple.

quote:


A proper kit can be built for well less than $100. The bags used often cost more than the items.

When at work I keep one CAT on me in one cargo pocket, and a SWAT-T, a small roll of duct tape, and an H&H in my other cargo pocket. My bag? A Ziplock.


I recommend you find someone who teaches Stop The Bleed and have them do a class for your group. Training is the most important thing. Good training. You can save a life just by putting one pound of pressure on the right spot until someone gets there with more equipment, but you have to know the spot. Or by using a pair of boxers as a tourniquet and a shirt to pack a junctional wound...but you have to know how to do it.



THIS!

quote:


And I wasn’t being snarky about the AED. Make sure your group (or anyone in the church that wants it) is trained in CPR. It’s easy and relatively inexpensive.


You’ll notice one thing I didn’t mention was hemostatic gauze. Spend the money on good training and buy the $1.50 gauze instead of the $45 gauze.


Used to be a first responder at work (heavy industry). Have seen some bad things. But most stuff we could handle by just being there and knowing what to do. Equipment is secondary, knowledge and training is key. Get to know how to handle stress.

as a IFAK I carry a army first aid kit, gloves, some band aids and a swiss army knife. In my first aid kit at work I have more stuff like desinfectant, tourniquets, bandages, scissors and so on. But I rarely need it (thanks god)


The citizen watches the watchman, not the taxpayer.
 
Posts: 711 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: September 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peripheral Visionary
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Small pack various Band-Aids, alcohol swabs, gauze and tape, abx ointment. Israeli bandage, quikclot sponge, CAT tourniquet.




 
Posts: 10010 | Location: Magnolia, Texas | Registered: January 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not really from Vienna
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Box of band-aids and a little bottle of rubbing alcohol in the console of my truck. I feel so inadequate.




 
Posts: 24707 | Location: Young American Teen Club | Registered: January 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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