SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Enough with the conspiracies and crazy talk...let's be real here...Atlantis, yes or no?
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Enough with the conspiracies and crazy talk...let's be real here...Atlantis, yes or no? Login/Join 
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted
In all seriousness, what do you consider the starting line for civilization? And can you support that with any facts or links to facts?

Rules:

1. Civilization meaning people living in groups with centralized structure and surplus food. Not caves or hunter/gatherer nomadic tribes.

2. Evidence not necessary but appreciated. If you have a link or a factual connection, that would be great.

3. No door slamming other opinions. State your case, but no disparaging others or disrespect please.

4. For the sake of discussion, let's keep the religious zeal to a minimum. If you believe it's only 106 years because that's how long we've had the prophet JMB's 1911 - that's fine, but state your case and move on.

I'll start. Based on the semi-recent findings at Gobekli Tepe, and research of gentlemen like Dr. Robert Schoch, James Bauval, Michael Cremo and others, I believe civilization to be at the very least 12-13 thousand years old, and probably much older. And from further research regarding the period known as the Younger-Dryas, although no one has found definitive evidence, I believe the concept of an Atlantian civilization is not only very possible but quite likely.

Your thoughts?
 
Posts: 10729 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Web Clavin Extraordinaire
Picture of Oat_Action_Man
posted Hide Post
No. It is a metaphor. It's Plato, who loves a metaphor. There's a reason no one can find Atlantis...because it's a story used to illustrate a point.

Why doesn't anyone believe that some dudes kept a bunch of people holed up in a cave and only showed them reflections of reality?


----------------------------

Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter"

Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
 
Posts: 19837 | Location: SE PA | Registered: January 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of JJexp
posted Hide Post
My theory is, with the earth being about 4.5 billion years old, it’s pretty ridiculous to think that even the last 20,000 years is all that there is to modern mans evolution.

Givin our cyclical nature for repeating history, we’ve probably nuked ourselves back to the Stone Age several times over and again. The human race has probably reached our technological period several times, then along came a few hot heads, and we all get to play out our shtf fantasies for real.
 
Posts: 451 | Location: Hatboro, PA | Registered: May 25, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
posted Hide Post
Yes. On Santorini . Wiped out by huge volcanic eruption.
 
Posts: 21240 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
Picture of darthfuster
posted Hide Post
I stayed and played in Atlantis for a week. Bahamas...



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 29608 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Honky Lips
Picture of FenderBender
posted Hide Post
I'd say right around 10,000 BC when agriculture began.
 
Posts: 8144 | Registered: July 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Conveniently located directly
above the center of the Earth
Picture of signewt
posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]:

1. Civilization meaning people living in groups with centralized structure and surplus food. Not caves or hunter/gatherer nomadic tribes.
[UNQUOTE]

great differentiation requirement!

Agree with the Gobekli model for now, as there is considerable physical evidence.


**************~~~~~~~~~~
"I've been on this rock too long to bother with these liars any more."
~SIGforum advisor~
"When the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change, then change will come."~~sigmonkey

 
Posts: 9849 | Location: sunny Orygun | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bushpilot
posted Hide Post
Good thread, thanks for posting.

Archaeology has been unable to date "civilization" much before the 20,000 year threshold as stated above by JJexp. We have not been able excavate any evidence, cities, tools, burial sites, etc. that would take us past that boundary. Also sonar mapping has yet to locate a suitable sub sea formation that could be considered Atlantis.

I have done a lot of thinking and have located and collected samples of Iridium from the 70 million year old dinosaur killer rock that slammed into the Gulf of Mexico and that evidence is still available to find. I have also found buckshot size spheres believed to be from another impact we haven't found the crater yet. These are all examples of "recent" history geologically speaking.

I will watch this thread with interest.


****************************************************W5SCM
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution" - Abraham Lincoln

"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go" - Abraham Lincoln
 
Posts: 1143 | Location: Little Rock, AR | Registered: January 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
No. It is a metaphor. It's Plato, who loves a metaphor. There's a reason no one can find Atlantis...because it's a story used to illustrate a point.


Actually, it's starting to look like there's things on the island of Santorini that fit a lot of what he was talking about, including freestanding multi-story masonry and indoor plumbing of the sort that isn't seen again in the archaeological record until well into the Roman empire on an island destoyed by volcanic activity. He may not have had to create a story in order to see a metaphor in one.


______________________________________________
Carthago delenda est
 
Posts: 17060 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
quote:
No. It is a metaphor. It's Plato, who loves a metaphor.


Gotcha on this point, and I agree with that statement. Although it's a stunning coincidence that Plato goes as far as to date the metaphor - 9000 years before the time of Solon(sp?) - which would place it right at the very edge of the Younger-Dryas event 11,600 years ago.

quote:
Why doesn't anyone believe that some dudes kept a bunch of people holed up in a cave and only showed them reflections of reality?


You lost me on this one. What's the reference?
 
Posts: 10729 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drug Dealer
Picture of Jim Shugart
posted Hide Post
It's from Republic. Read all about it here.



When a thing is funny, search it carefully for a hidden truth. - George Bernard Shaw
 
Posts: 15471 | Location: Virginia | Registered: July 03, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
quote:
I have also found buckshot size spheres believed to be from another impact we haven't found the crater yet.


Awesome! Sounds like you either have a cool job or a very interesting hobby. Wink

Maybe you could tell me, if the impact was on the ice shelf - as some have theorized - would a crater even exist?
 
Posts: 10729 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Experienced Slacker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JJexp:
My theory is, with the earth being about 4.5 billion years old, it’s pretty ridiculous to think that even the last 20,000 years is all that there is to modern mans evolution.

Givin our cyclical nature for repeating history, we’ve probably nuked ourselves back to the Stone Age several times over and again. The human race has probably reached our technological period several times, then along came a few hot heads, and we all get to play out our shtf fantasies for real.


^^^This has seemed most likely to me for a while now.

There was a show a few years ago called "Life After People". One of the first things it discussed was that if we just went away suddenly it would only take the world about 10,000 years to get rid of any traces of our being here that weren't carved in very hard stone.

10k to 4.5b is just an eye blink. Even factoring in a couple billion for planet formation etc., we've still only been here for a moment...this time around. Wink
 
Posts: 7486 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unknown
Stuntman
Picture of bionic218
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Shugart:
It's from Republic. Read all about it here.


Thank you, Shugart.
 
Posts: 10729 | Location: missouri | Registered: October 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
half-genius,
half-wit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Yes. On Santorini . Wiped out by huge volcanic eruption.


This.

tac
 
Posts: 11305 | Location: UK, OR, ONT | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Grateful American
Picture of sigmonkey
posted Hide Post
The earth is flat; and, well- turtles...




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 43810 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Something wild
is loose
Picture of Doc H.
posted Hide Post
Actually Rule #1 is rather restrictive, because by most measures advanced nomadic tribes, still in existence today, are considered substantially to be "civilization." However if you mean collections of humans who built stone houses, Skara Brae in Orkney is a good example:



Circa 3,180 B. C.

And there was demonstrably a civilization about 70,000 years before that at La Chappele-aux Saints in France, including rather tidy homes constructed of wood and stone by our most recent ancestors and contemporaries, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis , also arguably "people."

Human "civilization" has a more ancient lineage than most give it credit for....



"And gentlemen in England now abed, shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day"
 
Posts: 2746 | Location: The Shire | Registered: October 22, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nosce te ipsum
Picture of Woodman
posted Hide Post
Atlantis? Sure, very possible. It only takes a few hundred years for a civilization to go from a collection of nomads into a city/state. With the right people in charge.

My people were making musical instruments 40,000 years ago in the area of Eastern Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurignacian
 
Posts: 8759 | Registered: March 24, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JJexp:
My theory is, with the earth being about 4.5 billion years old, it’s pretty ridiculous to think that even the last 20,000 years is all that there is to modern mans evolution.

Givin our cyclical nature for repeating history, we’ve probably nuked ourselves back to the Stone Age several times over and again. The human race has probably reached our technological period several times, then along came a few hot heads, and we all get to play out our shtf fantasies for real.


There is no evidence of any of that, though.

The early cave painters, at around 40,000 years ago are my first civilized people. (Maybe a little earlier, as earlier paintings may not have been well-protected.) Anyone who deliberately makes art is civilized in my book.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53118 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bad dog!
Picture of justjoe
posted Hide Post
The Allegory of the Cave is clearly an allegory. Plato talks about Atlantis as a historical reality. Big difference.


______________________________________________________

"You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone."
 
Posts: 11106 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: June 05, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Enough with the conspiracies and crazy talk...let's be real here...Atlantis, yes or no?

© SIGforum 2024