School buses had seat belts when I was a kid. Driver used to walk back and make damn well sure we were buckled too. We seldom gave him a hard time. Old school Vermont farmer he was. Only in high school did the buses with seat belts dissapear.

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Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Who would be held responsible if the insolent kid doesn't put it on and the bus ends up in a crash, the district, the driver, the parent?

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Originally posted by PD:
...what happens when the little brats decide to unbuckle as they most certainly will?

State legislatures could give school districts and school bus drivers civil immunity if seat belt was present but not used.

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Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
Who would be held responsible if the insolent kid doesn't put it on and the bus ends up in a crash, the district, the driver, the parent?

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
...what happens when the little brats decide to unbuckle as they most certainly will?

State legislatures could give school districts and school bus drivers civil immunity if seat belt was present but not used.

That still doesn't answer how to handle an emergency evacuation.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
Tubes

Tubes are the answer

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Originally posted by Georgeair:

The driver you mention didn't get "caught" on a track (unless an alien craft fell on the bus), they made choices that resulted in them parking the children they were responsible for in the path of an oncoming train. Without room to fully cross they should have sat parked patiently on the other side.

You are absolutely correct. It was a stupid move by the bus driver that caused the collision.

The bus driver was trying to beat a traffic light at the intersection just past the crossing and got stuck when the light went red. That left the bus at the light with the back end hanging over the tracks as the commuter train came through at 60 mph.

If interested, here's the wikipedia entry on the incident.

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Originally posted by mcrimm:
stopped at a railway crossing with the door open - as it should.

Apologizing for the thread drift: Why do bus drivers open the door after stopping at a rail crossing? I've seen this many times before and wondered; just never took the opportunity to ask.

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Originally posted by vthoky:

quote:

Originally posted by mcrimm:
stopped at a railway crossing with the door open - as it should.

Apologizing for the thread drift: Why do bus drivers open the door after stopping at a rail crossing? I've seen this many times before and wondered; just never took the opportunity to ask.

For an unobstructed view of the railway and a chance to hear better.

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Originally posted by CoolRich59:
...A couple of years ago in the next town over from me, a bus driver got caught at a light with the back end of the bus sticking over the track for the commuter rail line. The train that hit the bus launched it a dozen feet and tragically killed 7 kids...

There's more to this story, and not all the details are in the Wikipedia article.

The bus driver that day was a substitute who had never been on that route before, and was unaware of the short distance between the intersection and the train track. (Wikipedia is correct in this detail) In addition, the students were riding her hard for being late, yelling at her to "GO!" at each stop she made, to the point where she had tuned them out when the actual danger of the approaching train occurred. (Omitted from Wikipedia and all official reports beyond the driver's original statement, IIRC) She didn't know that the back of the bus was on the tracks until the collision.

Changes were made to railroad crossing laws after this incident, to prevent vehicles from getting caught in a space too short for clearance, but I don't remember if the driver was cleared of responsibility.

The general feeling among the school bus drivers in the Chicago area was that the students themselves were to blame, since they deliberately were distracting the driver.

A friend was involved in an investigation which lasted several months, and is the source of my background information.

As to seat belts on buses, it doesn't matter what laws the legislatures may pass to protect the drivers from liability, they know they would still be sued, and it's unlikely the bus companies would come to their defense. My friend's opinion is against mandatory seat belts.

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Originally posted by trapper189:
Selt belts work in accidents.
School buses don't get in accidents.
School buses don't need seat belts.

As an example, .14 deaths per billion miles traveled by school bus compared to 5.75 deaths per billion miles travel by car or truck or 217 deaths per billion miles travel by motorcycle.

Only commercial US airlines are safer at .06 deaths per billion miles traveled. So why do airplanes have seatbelts? It's not like wearing your seatbelt is going to save you in an unplanned landing.

link

To keep weight from shifting around and causing the airplane to lose even more stability in a dangerous maneuver (possibly???)

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Originally posted by trapper189:


Only commercial US airlines are safer at .06 deaths per billion miles traveled. So why do airplanes have seatbelts? It's not like wearing your seatbelt is going to save you in an unplanned landing.

Busses are generally not known for suddenly and unexpectedly dropping 20' - 200' vertically.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
Tubes

Tubes are the answer

The one where everyone gets their own tube, and the tubes get loaded into a craft? Nobody has to interact with anyone else, and everyone has their own amount of set space?

I guess a tube with airbags on all sides with be pretty safe in an accident.

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Originally posted by Fenris:
If there is a fire, how are you going to unbuckle 50+ kids?

Are there any kids left in the USA that don't know how to use a seatbelt??
They use one every time Mom & Dad take them anywhere, (ever see a 3 yr old that didn't like the carseat restraints?) and they use them on planes.

Seat belts keep passengers conscious so they can undo their own seat belts.

I drove a school bus for ten years after I retired. We didn't have belts. From a practical point of view there would be no way to enforce used of the belts. It just doesn't work. If the kids will sit in the seats, they are afforded a lot of protection in the event of an accident.

During the time I was driving, the school system had a couple or three relative minor accidents and no students were injured.

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Originally posted by KMitch200:
Are there any kids left in the USA that don't know how to use a seatbelt??

People can do real stupid shit in an emergency.

When I rode busses the steel tube loop on the back of the seat in front of you always looked like a good place to lose your front teeth if there was an accident.

Well, as it has been said. School busses are built tough. As apart of the design, it seat backs are high and padded, and seats are close together, to keep the passengers "restrained". It's called compartmentalization, so they can't move. If they are setting in the seats like they are supposed to do, with tush on the cush, feet on the floor then they are well restrained.

We have alot of busses running at maximum capacity of 66 and 79 passengers. If there was a fire, and all were wearing seatbelts it would be a disaster.

There is just a driver on regular route busses, and in our school district the drive can not leave the drivers seat unless he/she turns off the bus, set parking break, and pump the brakes down ( air breaks).

So imagine you are driving down the road,and a student unbuckle the seatbelt and stands up. Yet the student isn't capable of putting on the seatbelt themselves, oh alot of kindergartener, 1st and 2nd grade can't put them on, but they can take them off. Now in my school district, as the lone driver I would have to stop, set parking break, turn off engine, pump breaks down then go to the very back of the bus to push "the no child Left behind button" (it will time out and the horn will loudly honk) set the child in set and fasten seatbelt.

Then start the bus and air up the breaks, which can take up to two minutes. Now alot of the roads I drive there is NO PLACE to get off the road, so this would be all done on the road, in most likely a no passing zone.

I'll ask the question now. Would anyone like to be stuck behind this? We are talking about 6 to 8 minutes.

I have people pass the stop arm everyday, I have them stop. Set a second or so then zoom by, so this would add a layer of danger that isn't there now.

Our school district has seatbelts in our preschool and special needs busses, but they have attendance. Even then they unfasten the seatbelt and get out of their seats all of the time.

Oh, speaking of preschool and special needs busses and seatbelts. In bus evacuation drills you are doing good to get them off the bus in under 2 minutes, just the other day we had a bus evacuation drill and I was driving a special needs bus with 6 passengers 2 wheelchair and 4 walk on. As per protocol, I unfastened the wheelchairs as the attended unbuckled the walk-ons and escorted them off the bus, she manned the wheelchair lift and I moved them to it, lower the first wheelchair and lifted the lift to the up position, at the top she moved the 1st wheelchair to the "safe zone" returned to lower the second wheelchair as I "checked and cleared" the bus. Total time 1 minute 50 seconds. That's some ass busting moving.

As a side note, the last bus we had catch on fire, think God with only the driver on it and he got out was fully engulfed in flame in less than 3 minutes!

Seatbelt on busses, more trouble and most likely more dangerous.


ARman