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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Well, arcwelder76 and 46and2, there you go. Fla. Jim has your evidence.  "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Member |
Moving on to the next learning experience. | |||
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Member |
My spookiest story. As my Mom was dying from lung cancer, I was beside her as she slept. She woke and in a moment of clarity ( she was really doped up on morphine and in a dream like state most of the time) she looked over at me and said, Hal, who is that man standing over there? The room was empty except for us. I said that I didn't know and asked her what he looked like. She started to answer and said well he...then she looked over like she had been spoken to by the man and she continued... oh, I'm not supposed to talk about that. She died a couple hours later. I had been reading some religious material about angels is why I asked Mom what he looked like. I thought she might have seen her guardian angel that was watching over her and I was wondering what he looked like, how he was dressed, and what he was doing. I guess there may be a lot of stuff happening around us that we normally can't perceive. Maybe a different dimension, maybe just a physical reaction your brain goes through near the end, maybe your brain produces chemicals that allow you to experience a dream like state so you have hallucinations that allow you to see loved ones. My 103 year old grandmother once told us at a visit that if we had come 30 minutes earlier we would have seen mother and 3 of her sisters who had come to visit. All had been dead at least 30 years. But to her it was real. It's a shame that youth is wasted on the young --- Mark Twain Anyone who is not a liberal by age 20 has no heart; anyone who is not a conservative by age 40 has no brain---Winston Churchill | |||
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A Grateful American |
Glad you were able to save your friend's life. In Judaism, this is equal to the first commandant. It's a big deal. "To save a single life is as if you saved an entire world." Thank you, from me, and prayers for your friend's recovery. As we come upon Yom Kippur, we are to seek out those to whom we have offended, recognize and admit it. The forgiving is up to them, hope for, but not expected. I know I have offended you in the past, and I ask you to forgive me for that. Death? no. L'chiam! Michael And to the topic. Perhaps death is the cessation of our ability to bring forth, or preserve life. Maybe that is the saddest part of it, and truly death. If not anywhere but in this life. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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Certified All Positions |
Frankly, I think that the lack of anything beyond this world, is even more of a motivation to be a decent person and do good things while we're here. If all that is left is what we've done, we best have done right by others. Ultimately, however people come to understand that the goal is to be a good person, it doesn't matter what the faith or lack thereof. We all are demonstrably immortal in two ways, regardless of faith. Our deeds, and our offspring. What lies beyond the grave will always be a matter of faith. I would be quite happy to find out, when I die, that I'm wrong and there is more past the mortal coil. Where it breaks down, is when people don't believe what they do in this life matters. That can come from either a lack of faith, or a perverse application of faith. In world religions today, we're pretty much down to just one that's stuck in the Bronze age and content to murder its way to heaven. I hope some day that no religion contains any death-cult qualities. For people who have no religion, and no other moral framework, well, the Democratic Socialists can have them. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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delicately calloused |
I don't think death or what lies beyond is enough to cause those attracted to evil to eschew it. Whether one believes this life is all there is or that there is consequence waiting on the other side, it seems people find a reason to do good or evil. This life is all there is so I'd better do good or I'm dead anyway so it doesn't matter what I do if I can get away with it. Or judgment awaits so I'd better be good or I'll rob, cheat and kill because God will forgive. We each choose according to our nature. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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Member |
Thank you both. This really gives me hope. For some time now, have come to the conclusion that dogs really are beyond special. Have met so many at the shelter who were complete sweethearts. Prayed and prayed for one of our fosters to be able to find her forever home, then just *let go* and left it to God. Shortly after that, a wonderful family fell in love with her at an adoption event. We found out that she had been abandoned before, but she spent the rest of her days in a family who loved her. After that, just said that God puts them where they are to be. Called our rescued Yorkies my "Angel Puppies," for how they save me every day Thanks again for that hope. Would be great to pass judgment so as to be with them again | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
You have a very good attitude for someone who believes it's all over when we die. If I thought it was all over when I die, I would probably want to get all I can now, in this world because..., why not? "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
My Dad taught me how to shoot, how to fish, how to hunt and how to die. The following is direct quotes from the last minute or so of his life. At the end of his cancer fight, he was lying in bed looking up and said in a clearer, stronger voice than he'd had for days, "I'm gonna do it." All the family was bedside and Stepmom asked, "Do what?" "I don't know." Not sure if he was really with it mentally, she asked "Who am I?" He answered back with his pet name for her. He stretched out his arm as if reaching for something, looking up toward the ceiling. "Who are you?" "Who are you?" "Are you a boy or girl?" "Are you a good boy or good girl?" They must have been leaving because he asked, "Where are you going?" We were shocked and stepmom asked, "Are the angels there?" He said, "Yeah." Then he quietly said, "I love you. I love you." The whole family said "We love you too Papa." Then he said, "Here they come again. I gotta go now. Say goodbye to Papa." We all said "Goodbye Papa, we love you." His last words were, "What are you singing?" Three short breaths after that he died. I wasn't really fearful of death before, it happens to all of us and I'd already seen a lot being a Paramedic for 13 yrs by then. After witnessing that, I'm not fearful of death AT ALL. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
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| Freethinker |
Despite all the terrible things that are thought (and said) about unbelievers, almost all of them know why not. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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| Certified All Positions |
No one should be in here trying to prove anything to anyone else, or be "right," so let's just get that out of the way. What lies beyond death cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and "evidence" of it should be left to those who believe in such. I don't begrudge anyone a personal account, or seeking comfort in however they choose to frame the afterlife. We'll all get proof once we've expired, and either way the argument will be at that point, over. It might be nothing, or heaven, or hell, purgatory, reincarnation... the best strategy is to be good and be good to others, all the bases are covered then regardless of faith or lack thereof. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Ammoholic |
There are all kinds of beliefs. One can spiritually believe that there is something greater than us out there, without subscribing to any particular religious faith. Pretty much all major religions would call folks with those beliefs unbelievers, but are they? Beyond that, something that my grandfather used to say from time to time comes to mind, “The veneer of civilization is only as thick as was applied by the previous generation.” Personally, “getting a lot” or “winning” (whatever that means) is of value to me, but only if I can feel good about how I got there. Feeling that win, lose, or draw, I acted with integrity and fairness and did the best I could is of more value to me than another bauble. I suspect that a lot of that comes from how I was raised. YMMV. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Agreed. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Ammoholic |
I don’t remember now which of those thinkers I had to read back in Humanities in college said it, or even the exact wording, but it was something to the effect of, “Being good is it’s own reward.” | |||
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| Freethinker |
Few of us believe that the good life consists of wearing a hair shirt and living in poverty in a cave someplace. All life forms want what is best for themselves, and if they didn’t they wouldn’t exist. But whenever someone in a discussion about spiritual issues mentions getting whatever they can here and now, the obvious unsaid implication is “by any means,” not “by all right and proper means.” Not all who say that really believe that it would apply to themselves and that they would be totally amoral in their dealings with others, but most who say that do believe it is true of others. That’s the basis for the oft-repeated statement that areligious people simply cannot be moral. Even though it is patently ridiculous, it is a very common belief among those who are themselves ultimately motivated primarily by hope of reward or fear of punishment. ► 6.4/93.6 “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato | |||
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Member |
What is death? Something I'd like to avoid for the time being. ________________________ "Television is called a medium because nothing on it is well done." -- Fred Allen | |||
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Member |
I see this as a serious thread about what people believe about death. To me, death is a step to heaven, a freeing of people's eternal souls/spirits from the temporal body. For those who do not like religion, you may wish to read no farther. This is just my answer to what I think death is. Death is something that Jesus describes as a transition to an afterlife, an eternal life in Christian faith. John 3 (New International Version): 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” 9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. 10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
My morals and lifestyle and life choices are fine, thanks. When I think of this life being the only one, I don't run out and rape or pillage, I do things like spend less time online rehashing tired old arguments, or I work harder to meet a particular goal, or I spend more time with friends and loved ones, or engage in any number of personal interests. On my worst days I'm more selfish than not and more of an asshole to some people than is likely necessary. All of which I've managed to be and do without any belief in gods or an afterlife whatsoever. It's imperfect, but certainly moral and the like. As for tales of those who have supposedly crossed over in a hospital or some such, they're no more real to me than stories of alien abductions or Sasquatch... mere anecdotes of a fantastical nature, wholly unproven, and with no credible or material evidence. And if I'm proven wrong one day, so be it. I've been mistaken before. Such is humanity. | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
Revelation 20 (KJV) 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 21 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Q | |||
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| Member |
The question was what I thought about death and I was focusing my answer on me. I am trying to be hopeful based on other things I believe.  Everyone must answer questions about death for himself or herself. _______________________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Range Safety Officer | |||
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