quote:

I am actually surprised at how lightly footed China has handled the whole situation period.

I think they are conflicted about what to do.
Sure, there are plenty of communist hard-liners who would have no problem with the "run your ass over with a tank" approach. But there are also others who recognize Hong Kong as one of China's crown jewels and know that to be too heavy handed means that all of the money will leave Hong Kong.

It's tough to be the Chinese with all the social media and cell phones out there, not the case when Tiananmen Square went down, and video still got out.
Now if they could lock down the cell towers and internet, all bets are off.

How and why did the Brits give this up in the first place?

You just know the Chicoms have been dreaming about putting HK fully under PRC control from the very day it was turned over to them.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

Now if they could lock down the cell towers and internet, all bets are off.

The Chicoms control all of that or will very soon.

I'm sure they could do that with one phone call. All the telecoms out there are firmly under the government's thumb.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

Now if they could lock down the cell towers and internet, all bets are off.

Because the Brits had it on a lease and the lease ran out. And I doubt even back then that the UK military was in a position to defend the place from the Chinese.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
How and why did the Brits give this up in the first place?

You just know the Chicoms have been dreaming about putting HK fully under PRC control from the very day it was turned over to them.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

Now if they could lock down the cell towers and internet, all bets are off.

The Chicoms control all of that or will very soon.

Hong Kong is one of the major world financial hubs. If the Chinese took it by force, all the financial firms would bug out and move someplace else, and the Chinese would be left holding an empty bag of skyscrapers.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

I am actually surprised at how lightly footed China has handled the whole situation period.

I think they are conflicted about what to do.
Sure, there are plenty of communist hard-liners who would have no problem with the "run your ass over with a tank" approach. But there are also others who recognize Hong Kong as one of China's crown jewels and know that to be too heavy handed means that all of the money will leave Hong Kong.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
How and why did the Brits give this up in the first place?

You just know the Chicoms have been dreaming about putting HK fully under PRC control from the very day it was turned over to them.

No, actually. They haven't. In fact, when the One nation, two systems arrangement was crafted, it was recognized that Hong Kong had a much better economy, and it was hoped that over time China would adopt the Hong Kong model and elevate the nation. That hasn't worked as planned.

The Chinese maintain a PLA garrison in Hong Kong, though it cannot be brought into action without either a request from the Hong Kong government, or in the case where Beijing feels that the situation has overwhelmed the HKG government, then direct from Beijing.

The consequences of doing that, however, are an international admission that the Two-Systems scheme has failed, which is a great embarrassment to China.

Beijing could have assumed control at any time, had that been the plan. It's actually the exact opposite of the plan; Hong Kong represents the great Chinese experiment, and it's been far more successful than ever anticipated. Unfortunately, the mainland has not followed the development as originally planned, and Beijing PRC power is cemented with a leader who cannot be removed under the present system.

The irony... American flag used by protesters in HK. I wonder if china commies see this as a stick in the eye. Bahaha

At one point the video below had No views, but 375 likes and 5 dislikes. What up with that?

Advice to member that you have stock on US companies heavy invest in China it time to get out.

Chinese media, not known for its veracity, is reporting in mainland china that the protesters are shills brought in by either the US or the UK, and are "terrorists."

The point of the protests, of course, is to protest mainland chinese involvement in Hong Kong.

Videos showing protesters hailing the US flag are part of the propaganda machine which is anti-protester, and anti-US.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Videos showing protesters hailing the US flag are part of the propaganda machine which is anti-protester, and anti-US.

For realz?

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Hong Kong is one of the major world financial hubs. If the Chinese took it by force, all the financial firms would bug out and move someplace else, and the Chinese would be left holding an empty bag of skyscrapers.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

I am actually surprised at how lightly footed China has handled the whole situation period.

I think they are conflicted about what to do.
Sure, there are plenty of communist hard-liners who would have no problem with the "run your ass over with a tank" approach. But there are also others who recognize Hong Kong as one of China's crown jewels and know that to be too heavy handed means that all of the money will leave Hong Kong.

That's the crux of this situation. We all know the ChiComs can roll-over everybody (that convoy was a lot of empty trucks, lots of bark but no teeth), what they also know is if they crush the HK protests and 'make examples of the leaders', they run the likely hood of cratering their economy as HK is the financial hub of China. Shanghai will cry and howl that they are an equal global city however, the reality is the financial and trading sector is firmly entrenched in HK, damage/destroy that and they'll have set themselves back 20-30 years. The ChiComs are looking forward to celebrating their anniversary in 2021, running over HK would be a self-inflected black eye and a loss of face in the eyes of other Asian neighbors.

A cascade of events would have to occur for actual violence to happen; could not imagine trying to quell or, suppress any uprising in the most urban of world locations. Takes MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) to a whole new level.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
could not imagine

Just watch. China has too many disgruntled citizens to let any group get out of line.

We also couldn't imagine shooting prisoners to harvest their organs but it seems to be happening.............

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
could not imagine

Just watch. China has too many disgruntled citizens to let any group get out of line.

We also couldn't imagine shooting prisoners to harvest their organs but it seems to be happening.............

It's been report that they have the technology to keep the person alive to maximize the organ harvesting.
People are still disappearing with no reason, years a ago 30 some college was missing parent try years to location them with no result finally one guy in the media report it and was sent to jail.

And of course China's economy has been under pressure from a number of different directions. Even before the trade war started, they were starting buckle under the weight of their debt load, and their growth rate was slowing. Then Trump declared trade war, which amped up the pressure. Im hearing there industrial production is way down (and that's based on official numbers. Who knows how bad it really is.) Imploding business in Hong Kong right now would be really bad for them.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Hong Kong is one of the major world financial hubs. If the Chinese took it by force, all the financial firms would bug out and move someplace else, and the Chinese would be left holding an empty bag of skyscrapers.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

I am actually surprised at how lightly footed China has handled the whole situation period.

I think they are conflicted about what to do.
Sure, there are plenty of communist hard-liners who would have no problem with the "run your ass over with a tank" approach. But there are also others who recognize Hong Kong as one of China's crown jewels and know that to be too heavy handed means that all of the money will leave Hong Kong.

That's the crux of this situation. We all know the ChiComs can roll-over everybody (that convoy was a lot of empty trucks, lots of bark but no teeth), what they also know is if they crush the HK protests and 'make examples of the leaders', they run the likely hood of cratering their economy as HK is the financial hub of China. Shanghai will cry and howl that they are an equal global city however, the reality is the financial and trading sector is firmly entrenched in HK, damage/destroy that and they'll have set themselves back 20-30 years. The ChiComs are looking forward to celebrating their anniversary in 2021, running over HK would be a self-inflected black eye and a loss of face in the eyes of other Asian neighbors.

A cascade of events would have to occur for actual violence to happen; could not imagine trying to quell or, suppress any uprising in the most urban of world locations. Takes MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) to a whole new level.

Another shot:

A new life awaits you in the off-world colony...
... the chance to begin again, in a golden land of opportunity and adventure....


Its weird how life often imitates art.

Like anything, the situation is intensely political. Crushing the protest will backfire. Forcing HK and Macao to be the same as mainland China will backfire. Tiananmen square happened when China was just entering the world stage, back then Shanghai's Pu Dong skyline (one of the best views in the world) barely existed. They can't do it again, not on the world stage when every major 1st world country has invested heavily in China to build factories, employ the people, and raise the standard of living.

Despite the appearance of military might China tries to project, they really don't have that much. I've seen their ONE aircraft carrier - the Liaoning, anchored in Dalian (NE coast near Korea) many times. Sure they can put some armor and enough people into HK to get things under control, but that's like beating up your kids.

China has never won a war of any consequence with a foreign opponent. They lost to Mongolia, Taiwan, Japan. And despite the efforts of the party to control everything, there's just too many damn people to keep track of. Many laws and regulations are not enforced. They cannot simply shut down cellular communications to stop video of using force in HK from getting out, not without affecting too many other things.

China is very very interested in keeping up appearances and making things look good on the surface. Why? Because there's a billion people there who haven't benefitted much from the economic expansion. The cities are filled with millionaires and billionaires (well connected of course) driving exotic cars and spending fortunes on imported luxury goods and 2-3x the price we pay here. The party is most worried about internal revolution, as they should be.

I have a lot of friends from HK and it's worse than we are seeing. Taiwan just ordered a bunch of F16's. I have family and friends in both places that I pray for regularly. China is essentially throwing away the treaty they signed and trying to take over by force.