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Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
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Harvard has been around since September 8th of 1636. So, what, 382yrs and counting...?

Worrying about their fate or staying power seems pretty futile at this juncture.

They're one of the oldest and most stable institutions in the modern world, love em or not.
 
Posts: 23419 | Registered: March 12, 2004Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
Harvard has been around since September 8th of 1636. So, what, 382yrs and counting...?

Worrying about their fate or staying power seems pretty futile at this juncture.

They're one of the oldest and most stable institutions in the modern world, love em or not.



Nothing is permanent in life.

Harvard most likely will be around for another 400 years, but it may very well collapse at some point. Incidents like these do not bode well for future prospects.
 
Posts: 1838 | Location: NWA | Registered: October 26, 2010Report This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by reloader-1:
Incidents like these do not bode well for future prospects.


I’m curious why you believe that. Unless they pick up his room and board, admitting him will cost them nothing in terms of dollars and cents, and otherwise a pittance. On the other hand it will appeal to most of their far leftist faculty and students while not affecting the willingness of anyone on the right who wants to attend Harvard for the prestige it confers. I don’t recall exactly what percentage of applicants are admitted, but I believe it’s on the order of four percent. If for some unfathomable reason a couple or three applicants who are accepted change their minds over a political feel good gesture like this, the alternates will only be shouting, “Yes! I made it; let me in!”




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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Sigfreund,

An admission of someone like Hogg, in itself, will do nothing to Harvard’s reputation.

It is only over the years and decades, if behavior such as this persists, that the institution will face harm. One person alone won’t have much of an impact, just as one faulty rivet on the Titanic would not have sunk it.
 
Posts: 1838 | Location: NWA | Registered: October 26, 2010Report This Post
Freethinker
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You may be right, but I doubt it. It’s a political move, and institutions don’t last that long without the people who are adept at making smart political moves whether it’s keeping Jews (and now applicants of Asian heritage) out or letting antigun activists in. I realize that that’s a pessimistic view of the future, but hopefully I won’t be around to see if I’m right or wrong (and I can predict anything except the future Wink ). To tie into another thread, part of the reason for my acceptance of aging is acceptance of things I cannot influence in the slightest.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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I say the kid drops out in a semester. However he got in to Harvard, he still has to be driven enough to stay. He’s still the same putz he was before the shooting. He’s there because of circumstance, not talent. When he flames out he’ll blame someone else, saying he’s going to the real world to “make a difference”.
 
Posts: 958 | Registered: October 07, 2013Report This Post
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I'm still disgusted the Sheriff changed the word from "shall" to "may."

Ryan Petty, a member of DeSantis’ public safety committee who is also on the transition team and whose 14-year-old daughter Alaina was killed in February, said he’s been calling for Israel to resign for several months. He said he found Israel’s testimony troubling, especially where he admitted to changing the word “shall” to “may” when it came to an officer confronting an active shooter.

Complete article:

https://www.miamiherald.com/ne...rticle223567075.html

BSO Sheriff Israel fights for his job amid mounting criticism

BY CHARLES RABIN, CAITLIN OSTROFF, DANIEL CHANG, AND JOEY FLECHAS
DECEMBER 26, 2018 08:54 PM,
UPDATED DECEMBER 27, 2018 10:24 AM

Less than two weeks before Gov.-elect Ron DeSantis is to be sworn into office, embattled Broward Sheriff Scott Israel sent a letter Wednesday to a state-appointed safety committee, highlighting policy changes in his department following the February mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

The publicly released letter, addressed to MSD High School Public Safety Commission Chairman Bob Gualtieri, outlined seven previously announced initiatives by Israel’s department taken since the shooting in Parkland that killed 17 and wounded 17 others.

The letter‘s publication came hours before the release of new witness statements that highlight the contrast between the response of Coral Springs police, which has generally received favorable reviews, and the Broward Sheriff’s Office, which has been harshly criticized. Among the issues the safety panel pointed out: BSO deputies seemed to take their time putting on vests upon arrival and took cover behind their cars, rather than entering the school to confront the shooter — until Coral Springs police took the initiative.

Deputies also struggled to communicate on an aged radio system as students and teachers bled.

“It was like two separate agencies running two separate incidents,” Coral Springs officer Richard Best told agents from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. “We should all be able to communicate with everybody. And — that did not take place there.”

Reached Wednesday evening, Israel defended his leadership and said his letter to the committee was an effort to let members know what changes had been made. He called it a “work in progress.”

Still, the sheriff said whatever policy had been in place at the time of the shooting wouldn’t have changed the response of the school’s resource officer, an armed deputy who hid behind a wall during the rampage by 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz rather than entering the building.

“It is the strong belief of this sheriff that no policies, no words would have led to Deputy [Scot] Peterson going into that building,” Israel said.

Peterson, who spent about a decade patrolling Stoneman Douglas’ grounds, was the only officer on the scene when the shooting began. Video shows him concealing himself behind a wall as the massacre occurred inside the freshman building. Not long afterward, the sheriff suspended him pending an investigation. Peterson later resigned.

Israel’s letter came as the elected sheriff is being battered over the chaotic response — and in some cases, inaction — by his officers on Feb. 14, when former student Cruz walked onto the high school’s campus, unimpeded by school security, and shot and killed 17 students and administrators with a high-powered rifle.

The steps outlined in the sheriff’s letter represent the first comprehensive attempt to catalog changes by the sheriff’s office following the shooting. They include yearly active shooter training for all officers, internal affairs investigations into the inaction of two officers and a change to the department’s active shooter policy that will now require that officers immediately move toward and try to confront an active shooting threat. The previous policy said they “may” do so.

Also planned: a new threat assessment unit that will evaluate violent threats. BSO was warned repeatedly about Cruz’s violent outbursts prior to the Parkland shooting, but took no decisive action.

Criticism of Israel has centered on the delay by BSO deputies in entering the building where gunshots were fired and the resulting failure to confront the shooter. Critics include parents whose children were killed, the police union that represents most BSO officers and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which is investigating the response.

The safety committee Gualtieri chairs began public hearings on the shooting in November. The group, appointed by outgoing Gov. Rick Scott, is expected to make its findings public after the New Year — possibly after DeSantis takes office Jan. 8. An FDLE report is expected around the same time.

It’s unclear how much influence the safety committee will have on Israel’s future. But during the gubernatorial campaign, DeSantis was clear about his views on Israel’s performance.

“I’ve been saying he [Israel] should resign for quite some time. We even took billboards out,” said Jeff Bell, a DeSantis appointee to his transition team’s safety committee and president of the Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputies Association, which represents most of Broward’s 1,400 deputies.

If DeSantis were to suspend Israel, the Broward sheriff could request a trial before the Florida Senate. On Wednesday, Israel said he has “no plans to resign.”

“I have never had the opportunity to speak with the governor-elect. We’ve never met,” said Israel. “I can assure the committee I’m honored to serve and that I’ve never come close to malfeasance.”

The safety commission, which held hearings at the end of November, found that eight Broward Deputies, including Peterson, heard gunfire but did not immediately enter the building. Some took cover.

Jan Jordan, the captain at the scene, offered her resignation after it was learned she did not urge her deputies to immediately confront Cruz.

On Wednesday, more criticism of Israel came from the South Florida Sun Sentinel. In a scalding editorial titled “The Failed Leadership of Broward Sheriff Scott Israel,” the editorial board called his testimony before the safety committee “troubling” and called for the sheriff’s removal from office, a reversal of its previous stand.

Even while defending his department’s actions, Israel has sometimes hurt his own cause. Shortly after the February shooting during a now-infamous television interview, Israel told CNN news anchor Jake Tapper that he should only be held responsible for the things he knew about during the Parkland shooting. In the same interview, he touted his own “amazing leadership.”

During his November testimony before the commission, Israel said he purposely placed the word “may” in the active shooter policy to offer deputies discretion.

“I want an effective tactical response, not a suicide response,” Israel told committee members in November. “The goal of any agency’s response is to save lives. ‘May’ allows a deputy discretion.”


Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd, a committee member, criticized Israel’s decision in committee testimony last month. “Words matter,” Judd said to Israel.

Israel’s defense didn’t sway some of BSO’s critics, especially those who lost loved ones in the February shooting.

Ryan Petty, a member of DeSantis’ public safety committee who is also on the transition team and whose 14-year-old daughter Alaina was killed in February, said he’s been calling for Israel to resign for several months. He said he found Israel’s testimony troubling, especially where he admitted to changing the word “shall” to “may” when it came to an officer confronting an active shooter.

Petty also said failed radio communications that contributed to the chaos should have been solved two years ago, when they were revealed after a gunman from Alaska killed five travelers at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport in January 2017.

“He should have been screaming from the top of the sheriff’s office, ‘I need this resolved,’ ” said Petty. “Instead, he’s been radio silent.”

Fred Guttenberg, whose daughter Jaime was killed, has also called for Israel’s removal and urged reforms of gun laws.

“I’ve made my feelings on the need for Sheriff Israel to be removed quite clear for some time now. Nothing has changed,” Guttenberg said.

Among the new elements in Wednesday’s records release: a complaint that politicians showed up at Stoneman Douglas around the time officers were looking for Cruz, sometimes getting in officers’ way. Coral Springs officer Best said Sheriff Israel walked up to a command post accompanied by “all the politicians.”

Coral Springs Chief Clyde Parry, who was deputy chief of operations at the time of the shooting, told investigators that he grew frustrated as politicians and their aides began to crowd the command bus while police were still managing the scene.

“Once the politicians started to show up ... again, if it were my scene, I would’ve set up a place away from us and put them there,” Parry said. “I would have a question or something that needed to be asked, and I’m waiting for one of the political aides to walk down off the ladder... and it’s like ‘I need something here, you gotta — you gotta get out of my way,’ ya know?”

None of the politicians were identified in the documents released Wednesday.


Miami Herald staff writer Sarah Blaskey contributed to this report.
 
Posts: 14035 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Spokane228:
I say the kid drops out in a semester. However he got in to Harvard, he still has to be driven enough to stay. He’s still the same putz he was before the shooting. He’s there because of circumstance, not talent. When he flames out he’ll blame someone else, saying he’s going to the real world to “make a difference”.


I could be wrong here (again), but I was under the impression Hogg didn't finish high school, instead taking time to be an activist. Did I miss him actually graduating? And if he didn't finish high school, then how does he get into college? (Aside from that college giving him admission as sort of a gift, that is.)




God bless America.
 
Posts: 9255 | Location: Hokie Nation! | Registered: July 15, 2007Report This Post
Bad dog!
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quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
Harvard has been around since September 8th of 1636. So, what, 382yrs and counting...?

Worrying about their fate or staying power seems pretty futile at this juncture.

They're one of the oldest and most stable institutions in the modern world, love em or not.



Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: `Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear --
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.'

Percy Bysshe Shelley


______________________________________________________

"You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone."
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: June 05, 2011Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by justjoe:


Ozymandias

...
And on the pedestal these words appear --
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.'

Percy Bysshe Shelley



“For over a thousand years Roman conquerors returning from the wars enjoyed the honor of triumph, a tumultuous parade. In the procession came trumpeteers, musicians and strange animals from conquered territories, together with carts laden with treasure and captured armaments. The conquerors rode in a triumphal chariot, the dazed prisoners walking in chains before him. Sometimes his children robed in white stood with him in the chariot or rode the trace horses. A slave stood behind the conqueror holding a golden crown and whispering in his ear a warning: that all glory is fleeting.” ---


_____________________

 
Posts: 10891 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Report This Post
Bad dog!
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^^^ Yes, I love that part of Patton.

Everything passes. Harvard too will pass, no matter what they do with Hogg or their racist admissions or their poisonous political correctness.

But if they keep on the path they are on, they will pass faster than they otherwise might have.


______________________________________________________

"You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone."
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: June 05, 2011Report This Post
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quote:
But if they keep on the path they are on, they will pass faster than they otherwise might have.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have not looked at the Harvard Curriculum in some time. I had two required semesters of English Literature along with required Philosophy. I read the Great Books. A friend of mine who is an English Prof explained that students these days read Anthologies not the original works.
 
Posts: 6732 | Location: MS GULF COAST | Registered: January 02, 2015Report This Post
Bad dog!
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quote:
I had two required semesters of English Literature along with required Philosophy. I read the Great Books.


You had an actual education. Universities nowadays deal in indoctrination, not education. What you describe has been contemptuously abandoned as colonialism. And racism. And sexism. And about a half-dozen other isms. The goal is to subvert the values and ideals of America, and to recast our history as oppressive and shameful.

Meanwhile, socialism is extolled and idealized. The horrors of communism in the twentieth century-- the gulags, the millions upon millions of deaths-- are glossed over.

I wish I were exaggerating, but I'm not.


______________________________________________________

"You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone."
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: June 05, 2011Report This Post
Political Cynic
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I am pretty sure the best days of Harvard are behind them

when they admit someone of the class and caliber of Hogg to their institution, they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel

perhaps all the really smart and gifted are waking up to the fact that Harvard no longer has the same cachet it once had and the financial costs of going there, let alone living in the Boston environment is just 3 out of 3 strikes

lots of other universities, lots of better universities and you don't need the extra crap



Participating in a gun buy back program because you think criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbor has too many kids

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 48653 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Report This Post
Muzzle flash
aficionado
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Anyone who really wants to learn something should go to Hillsboro.

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth

When they ask me, "Paper or plastic?" I just say, "Doesn't matter to me. I am bi-sacksual."
 
Posts: 22675 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Report This Post
I'm Different!
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From the Sun Sentinel - a minute by minute look at the critical moments of Feb 14, 2018:
(Link has photos & audio files)

Unprepared and Overwhelmed

quote:
Two decades after Columbine and five years after Sandy Hook, educators and police still weren’t ready for Parkland.

DEC. 28, 2018

Failures by the Broward County Sheriff’s Office and school district cost children their lives at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

A gunman with an AR-15 fired the bullets, but a series of blunders, bad policies, sketchy training and poor leadership helped him succeed. Information reported over 10 months by the South Florida Sun Sentinel reveals 58 minutes of chaos on campus marked by no one taking charge, deputies dawdling, false information spreading, communications paralyzed and children stranded with nowhere to hide.

To be sure, a number of teachers and police officers performed heroically. But an examination of the day’s events reveals that the Sheriff’s Office and school district were unprepared for the crisis.

Here’s a minute-by-minute look at those critical moments on Feb. 14, 2018.

2:19:54 p.m Security entrusted to unarmed coaches

A campus watchman has a chance to stop gunman Nikolas Cruz before any blood is shed. But he doesn't do it.

Security monitor Andrew Medina, an unarmed baseball coach, is riding in a golf cart and unlocking gates 20 minutes before dismissal. He sees Cruz walk through one of those unguarded gates with a rifle bag.

He recognizes Cruz as "Crazy Boy," the former student that he and his colleagues had predicted most likely to shoot up the school. He radios another campus monitor/coach, but he does not pursue Cruz and does not call a Code Red to lock down the school.

Medina shouldn’t have been in that job – school investigators had recommended he be fired for sexually harassing students, but district administrators overruled them.

Medina is the first of three school employees who fail to call for a school lockdown after learning a gunman is on campus.

2:21:16 p.m. Second unarmed monitor spots gunman, turns the other way

David Taylor, the campus monitor who was alerted by Medina, walks into the first-floor hallway toward Cruz, who goes into the stairwell. At that point, Cruz has yet to pull his gun from the carry bag.

Taylor turns around, later telling investigators he intended to use stairs at the opposite end of the hallway to intercept Cruz on the second floor.

2:21:23 p.m. Another Code Red missed

The second chance to lock down the school is missed when freshman Chris McKenna enters the first-floor stairwell and sees Cruz loading his gun.

Cruz tells him "You’d better get out of here. Things are gonna start getting messy."

McKenna runs from the building and informs Aaron Feis, a football coach and campus monitor, that there is someone with a gun.

There is no evidence that Feis, who has a radio, calls a Code Red.

2:21:38 p.m. Watchman hides in closet

Cruz fires his first shots, killing freshmen Martin Duque, Luke Hoyer and Gina Montalto in the hallway of the first floor.

Taylor, the campus monitor, hears gunshots and races up to the second floor. He ducks into a janitor's closet. Taylor has a radio but does not call a Code Red.

School district policies were insufficient and employees were uncertain who could order that the campus be locked down.

Cruz stalks the first floor unchallenged. He enters no classrooms and shoots through the windows at people in his line of sight.

Cruz kills six students in these classrooms — Alyssa Alhadeff, Nicholas Dworet, Alaina Petty, Helena Ramsay, Alex Schachter and Carmen Schentrup.

The simplest of security measures could have saved lives. But the school district failed to require that classrooms have designated “hard corners” — areas where students could hide outside the line of sight of a gunman looking through a doorway.

Two security experts had advised Stoneman Douglas teachers and administrators to designate these safe spaces, but only two teachers in Building 12 did so. Most classroom corners that could have provided refuge were instead blocked by teachers' desks and other furniture.

2:22:13 p.m. The first 911 call

The first 911 caller tells a Coral Springs operator that there's a shooter at the school. Gunshots are heard in the background.

2:22:39 p.m. Led into the line of fire]/B]

The repeated failures to call a Code Red become catastrophic when the shooting sets off a fire alarm.

Instead of hiding in their classrooms, as they would during a Code Red, some students and teachers stream out of classrooms into hallways, as they would if facing a fire.

At the same time, Deputy Scot Peterson – the school resource officer and the only armed lawman on campus – runs to meet with Medina, the campus monitor who first saw Cruz.

[B] 2:22:41 p.m. 911 Delays


Broward County's disjointed 911 system slows the law enforcement response.

Because the first 911 call is from a cellphone, it goes to the city of Coral Springs. But the Sheriff's Office handles police calls for neighboring Parkland, so the Coral Springs operator must waste precious minutes transferring the call to the Sheriff's Office.

2:22:51 Athletic director rushes to help, gets killed

Deputy Peterson and another campus monitor meet Medina, get into his golf cart, and drive toward Building 12.

Athletic director and campus monitor Chris Hixon is already at Building 12. He enters the double doors at the west end of the hall and runs toward Cruz.

Cruz shoots Hixon, who crawls to take cover in a nearby doorway. Cruz finds him about 30 seconds later and shoots him again.

2:23:17 p.m. Armed but no action

Peterson finally arrives on the east side of Building 12. He draws his gun, but he fails to go inside the building.

Over his police radio he says he can hear firecrackers or "possible shots fired" in Building 12. The statement conflicts with his later account: that he was unsure where the sounds were coming from.

Feis, the campus monitor and football coach, opens the door to the west stairwell and comes face-to-face with Cruz. Cruz shoots him.

The carnage is astounding on the first floor, where Cruz kills 11 and wounds 13.

2:23:36 Saved on the second floor

Cruz heads up the west stairwell to the second floor but finds the hallway empty.

Some teachers, probably hearing gunfire below, had taken steps to protect the children. They had covered the windows in classroom doors so a shooter could not see in. Some huddle children away from the gunman's line of sight.

Cruz fires into two of 10 rooms, but no one is hurt.

2:23:48 p.m. Deputy fides from the crisis

Deputy Peterson takes cover between Buildings 7 and 8 as Cruz prowls the second floor.

Instead of confronting the killer, he radios for a nearby intersection to be blocked off.

He is still the only armed law enforcement officer on campus.

[B] 2:24:00 p.m. Locked classroom, nowhere to hide


Students on the third floor are initially unaware there's a shooter in the building and are crowding the hallways because of the fire alarm. Now hearing the shots, they begin to run back toward classrooms.

Social studies teacher Ernie Rospierski directs students back into classrooms, but his door locks behind him with his keys inside.

Rospierski and several students are stranded in the hall.

Cruz is on his way.

2:24:32 p.m. Vulnerable on the third floor

Cruz goes up the stairwell to the third floor, where about 20 people remain stranded in the middle of the hallway.

He fires multiple rounds into the crowd.

Geography teacher Scott Beigel is holding open his classroom door. As he ushers students in, Cruz shoots and kills him.

2:24:42 p.m. Blocking traffic and failing to respond

Broward Sheriff's deputy Michael Kratz heads toward the school.

He stops near the football field, about 1,000 feet from Building 12, to block traffic.

2:24:54 p.m. Finally a Code Red

Cruz’s assault, which would span 5 minutes and 32 seconds from first shot to last, is half over when someone finally declares a Code Red.

Campus monitor Elliott Bonner calls the alert after driving his golf cart to the southwest corner of Building 12, where he sees Feis' body and hears gunshots.

Bonner, who is unarmed, backs away from the scene in his cart.

2:25:10 p.m. Confusion about gunshots

Deputy Kratz adds to the confusion with a radio broadcast. He says he hears shots by the football field northwest of Building 12 – raising questions about where the shooter is.

2:25:12 p.m. Restrooms locked, students can't escape gunman

An earlier decision to lock restrooms because students were vaping in them now traps those who try to find refuge on the third floor.

They have nowhere to hide from Cruz and his bullets.

Cruz kills senior Meadow Pollack and freshman Cara Loughran outside a locked classroom; they die huddled together. Cruz shoots senior Joaquin Oliver outside a locked bathroom.

2:25:30 p.m. Teacher saves students

Rospierski flees with 10 students toward a stairwell as Cruz fires down the hall.

Two of the students, Jaime Guttenberg and Peter Wang, are hit. Wang dies in the hallway and Guttenberg in the stairwell, but others get away as Rospierski holds the door closed from inside the stairwell to keep Cruz from advancing.

By the time he is done, Cruz kills six and wounds four on the third floor. None of the dead are in classrooms.

It's now been nearly four minutes since Cruz started shooting, and deputies Peterson and Kratz are still not going toward Building 12.

2:25:35 p.m. Protected by hurricane glass

Unable to get into the stairwell, Cruz heads to a nearby teachers’ lounge.

Cruz shoots at the glass, targeting students and teachers as they flee across the campus below, but the glass won't break and no one on the ground is hit.

2:25:38 p.m. Peterson's lockdown order

Deputy Peterson, over his radio, orders a school lockdown instead of ordering deputies toward the building. He remains safely outside.

2:26:07 p.m. More deputies hang back - even though they can hear the gunshots

Four more Broward deputies arrive at the school, stopping north of the campus.

All of them hear gunshots as Cruz continues to shoot in the teachers' lounge but remain near their cars just off campus.

Since Columbine, officers are taught to rush toward gunshots and neutralize the killer. But the first Broward deputies don’t rush in.

Broward Sheriff Scott Israel later reveals that he personally changed department policy to say that deputies “may” instead of “shall” rush in.

2:27:03 p.m. Failing to take control

Sgt. Brian Miller stops north of Building 12. He is the highest-ranking officer on the scene but fails to take control or move from his car.

Rather than rush in, he takes time to put on his bulletproof vest and hide behind his car on Holmberg Road, not going on the radio for 10 minutes.

Miller is among eight armed deputies now at the school. All hear gunshots, but none rush to Building 12 to look for the killer.

2:27:10 p.m. Deputies dawdle as shots fired

The last five gunshots can be heard on the body cam of Deputy Josh Stambaugh. After parking at Holmberg Road near the scene of the shooting, he retrieves his bulletproof vest from the trunk, puts it on and takes cover behind his car.

After five minutes there, he gets into his car and drives to the other end of the campus to take a position on the Sawgrass Expressway overlooking the school.

The final shot Cruz fires, from inside the teachers’ lounge, can be heard at 2:27:10 p.m.

2:27:54 Cruz escapes, cops have no idea

Cruz takes off his rifle vest, drops his AR-15 in a stairwell, heads down the stairs, darts out of the building and runs across campus — all while police think he's still inside.

2:28:00 p.m. Cops protect themselves

A few seconds later, Peterson, still hiding southeast of Building 12, tells deputies over the radio to stay at least 500 feet away from the building.

The warning is one of at least two times a Broward deputy urges another officer to protect themselves, not confront the killer.

Though police officers since Columbine have been trained to immediately confront the killer, some Broward deputies at the Parkland massacre would later struggle to recall when they last had active shooter training or details of what they learned.

2:28:53 p.m. Fooled by video delay

The surveillance cameras in the school are not monitored in real time.

Assistant Principal Jeff Morford and school security officer Kelvin Greenleaf enter the school's camera room to rewind and review surveillance video, but deputies don’t realize the footage is delayed 20 minutes.

Morford relays information about Cruz's whereabouts to Peterson and other school officials. Cops, believing the video is live, continue searching for Cruz in the building — delaying aid to injured students.

2:29:35 p.m. Sheriff's commander overwhelmed

Broward Sheriff's Capt. Jan Jordan, head of the Parkland district, arrives at the school's administration building and is quickly overwhelmed as she tries to coordinate officers.

The faltering radio system frustrates her. She spends her first seven minutes at the school in the administrative building and then goes to a nearby car to try again with the radio system.

She eventually moves to another area near Building 12, where she takes cover behind a car to meet with officers.

2:29:33 p.m. No command post again

The Sheriff’s Office fails to immediately set up a command post – just as the agency failed to do after a mass shooting at the Fort Lauderdale airport the year before.

A Broward deputy asks that the command post be set up to help control the response, but it isn't done for another half-hour.

2:32:42 p.m. Coral Springs police officers rush in

The shooting has been over for five minutes before any police officers enter the building.

Four Coral Springs officers enter through the west doors, where they see Chris Hixon shot. Two officers pull Hixon out of the building and onto a golf cart. He will not survive.

The Coral Springs officers later tell investigators their training was clear – run toward the gunfire.

Coral Springs Officer Raymond Kerner, the school resource officer at nearby J.P. Taravella High School, would tell investigators:

“Basically, what we’re trained to do is just get right to the threat as quick as possible and take out the threat because every time you hear a shot go off it could potentially be a kid getting killed or anybody getting killed for that matter.”

2:33:04 p.m. Commander fails to act

Capt. Jordan orders that a perimeter be established around the school – a misguided approach when facing an active shooter.

Before Columbine, setting up a perimeter was standard. After Columbine, police were trained to rush toward the gunshots.

Jordan does not establish a command post or call for officers to go find the shooter.

2:34:11 p.m. More bad information from Peterson

Deputy Peterson adds more bad information to a chaotic scene.

Still sheltering by a building, he tells a Coral Springs officer the shooter is on the second or third floor.

In reality, Cruz has been out of the building for more than six minutes.

2:34:27 p.m. First Deputy inside

Broward Deputy William Hanks enters Building 12 through the west doors, one minute and 45 seconds after Coral Springs officers first entered.

2:36:00 p.m. More officers rush in

About 18 officers, the majority from Coral Springs, head into the east side of Building 12 about this time.

More sheriff’s deputies begin to enter the building as well.

2:37:18 p.m. "Dream-like

Without a command post established, deputies remain confused about who is in charge.

Broward Lt. Stephen O'Neill takes command of the response early on, recognizing the lack of direction from supervisors. He later says Jordan had a “dream-like” nature to her speech and that she “was not engaged with the problem."

O'Neill works to keep the roads by the school clear for more responding vehicles and to create an area where officers can stage during the response. But doing so also slows the police response into Building 12.

2:40:16 p.m. Evacuation of building 12

Officers begin a mass evacuation of survivors from Building 12.

2:53:24 p.m. Gunman long gone

Assistant Principal Morford, in the video room, broadcasts over school radios that Cruz is leaving the third floor and headed to the second floor. Officers believe Morford is watching the video in real time, but in fact Cruz has already walked to a nearby Walmart and ordered a drink at Subway.

Video from Sgt. Richard Rossman’s body cam shows officers relaying Cruz’s movements over the radio and Assistant Principal Winfred Porter, outside with the police, incorrectly confirming the video is live.

2:53:40 p.m. Cruz on the move

Cruz leaves Walmart and heads to a nearby McDonald's. He stays there a minute and then leaves.

2:57:59 p.m. Officers reach third floor

Three Coral Springs officers reach the third floor and find Cruz's gun, vest and the body of Jaime Guttenberg.

Deputies in Building 12, still believing the gunman is inside, are experiencing radio problems. Body cam video records one deputy saying he needs to go outside to use his radio.

3:02:20 p.m. The truth about the video

Cops finally learn that the surveillance video is delayed.

Sgt. Rossman has known it for seven minutes — at a time when every minute was critical — but he has not broadcast it over the radio until now.

3:11:20 p.m. Hiding for 48 minutes

School Resource Officer Peterson leaves the spot where he has remained sheltered for nearly 48 minutes, watching as other officers enter the building.

3:17:45 p.m. Final classroom entered

Almost an hour after the shooting began, officers enter the final room in Building 12.



“Agnostic, gun owning, conservative, college educated hillbilly”
 
Posts: 3997 | Location: Northern Panhandle WV | Registered: March 29, 2010Report This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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Posts: 88640 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
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try to keep up
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I just viewed the account at the link mrbill345 posted. Very eye opening.
 
Posts: 2837 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Report This Post
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always a Marine
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I think I hate these kids. Every fucking one of them....

Portland students walk out to protest school resource officers

In it, one student says, “I feel like it’s taking away funding from things that could actually increase a safe environment, like psychologists and therapists.”


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Posts: 10169 | Location: Belly of the Beast | Registered: January 02, 2009Report This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
In it, one student says, “I feel like it’s taking away funding from things that could actually increase a safe environment, like psychologists and therapists.”


Yeah, psychologists and therapists are going to make us a lot safer. Roll Eyes

Their ignorance is stunning, but whose fault is that? I always ask that question whenever someone has a fit because a “millennial” doesn’t know how to change a car tire: Whose fault is ignorance about such things?

More important in my view, though, is that high school students are given the power to get away with such shenanigans. Walk out? Okay, don’t bother coming back. Come back without your parents who will swear that it doesn’t happen again, and the school resource officer will have a trespassing arrest to make.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 40474 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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