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Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
If a "school resource officer" has no duty to defend anyone at the school, why are they there? Just collecting a check?

Cancel those contracts and let teachers that want to, be trained and armed. They will at least have the incentive of self-preservation kick in.
If that's the case, the money paying for an SRO / Overtime cops would be better spent on professional armed security teams, who know it's their fucking job to put someone 6' under if they are shooting up the school.
 
Posts: 42579 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
Official Space Nerd
Picture of Hound Dog
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quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
Originally posted by gw3971:

So we are charging people with crimes for what they didn't do? insanity.
I'm curious. Would you feel differently if one of the victims was your child?


I'm no lawyer, but there are sins of commission (what you did) and sins of omission (what was in your power to do but you did not do).

For cops, the same standard should apply.

What if a cop sat idly by as someone strangled a bystander to death right in front of him? Should that cap be charged for something he "didn't do?"*


* The answer is 'Yes,' btw. . .



No arsenal is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.
Ronald Reagan
 
Posts: 20422 | Location: Hobbiton, The Shire, Middle Earth | Registered: September 27, 2004Report This Post
Age Quod Agis
Picture of ArtieS
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Ethically, morally, and viscerally, I think that fucker is guilty of cowardice and dereliction of the highest order, and should pay the heaviest of prices.

But from a strictly legal standpoint, I agree that charging him criminally is potentially troublesome. The Supreme Court's prior ruling about police responsibility for individual protection was specifically written that way for a reason.

Slippery slope. Unintended consequences. Etc.

This is exactly where I am on this one. In addition, I heard a report today that the SO's policy statement on shooters says an officer "may" run to the gunfire, not that an officer "will" run to the gunfire. I.e., there was written instruction that the officer could use his judgment rather than move to the gunfire. That doesn't change what I think of him, but it may well change his legal position.

I also agree with GW3971 who suggests that criminally charging someone for failing to act is a difficult standard, and something we should be very cautious about.

I know that the families want him charged, and the new Sheriff is sensitive to that pressure. There is also a claim being made that he had a "special relationship" with the students and thus was obligated to protect the students over an above the general duty to society expressed by the supreme court. There is also a suggestion that by calling a code red and locking down the school, he prevented students from escaping and thus permitting more of them to be killed, and that he therefore also committed a crime.

I honestly don't think he can legally be convicted of the criminal charges, and if he is, I believe the appellate levels will overturn the conviction. The problem is really one of imposing societies judgment after the fact over the judgment of the officer on scene at the time. We all agree that he had an obligation to do more than he did, but I think we also agree that he didn't have an obligation to get himself needlessly killed to no purpose. Somewhere in between those two extremes is the conduct that we expect. I'm not convinced that the criminal law is the right way to do it.



"We may consent to be governed, but we will not be ruled." - Kevin D. Williamson, 2012

"All the citizens of this land are of right freemen; they owe no allegiance to any class and should recognize no task-masters. Under the chart of their liberties, under the law of high heaven, they are free and without shackles on their limbs nor mortgages upon the fruits of their brain or muscles; they bow down before no prince, potentate, or sovereign, nor kiss the royal robes of any crowned head; they render homage only to their God and should pay tribute only to their Government. Such at least is the spirit of our institutions, the character of our written national compact."

Charles Triplett O’Ferrall of Virginia - In Congress, May 1, 1888
 
Posts: 10000 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: November 02, 2008Report This Post
Conservative Behind
Enemy Lines
Picture of synthplayer
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On either side of the argument, you have to admit he was in over his head. Had my brother been on the scene and was armed, he would've gone in to try to neutralize the killer. It's just the kind of person he was - which I believe was why he was suited to be a LEO.

This cop was not right for the job.



According to Leftists: If your DNA test shows you are 1/1024 Native American, you ARE a Native American, but if you have two X chromosomes, we're not sure if you're a woman or a man.
 
Posts: 9749 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: June 06, 2007Report This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
Picture of gw3971
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:
quote:
Originally posted by gw3971:

So we are charging people with crimes for what they didn't do? insanity.
I'm curious. Would you feel differently if one of the victims was your child?


People are murdered every day. Do i really have to worry about getting charged with a crime everytime someone is killed and I didn't or couldn't stop it? The victims will always want to blame somebody else.

A little known fact about the Columbine shooting is the County Sheriff's office applied for a warrant to search the homes of both of the Columbine shooters weeks before the shooting and a judge denied the warrant as they didn't have enough PC. The detectives tried with the warrant but they didn't stop that one either are they all going to jail too? What about the judge? He could have stopped the mayhem with the stroke of his or her pen? he going to jail too?

Peterson is a coward. As a former school cop no one was harder on that chicken shit than I was but he didn't commit a crime with his in action. The shooter committed the crime. Blaming Peterson for the shooters action is like blaming the gun industry for every shooting.
 
Posts: 6332 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Report This Post
Crusty old
curmudgeon
Picture of Jimbo54
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Lets not forget the perjury charge. He won't be able to wiggle out of that very easily so he will likely do time. I have no idea what the sentencing guidelines are but I'm sure he'll get the maximum in the current climate there.

Jim


________________________

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll have to be a horrible warning" -Catherine Aird
 
Posts: 7804 | Location: The right side of Washington State | Registered: September 14, 2008Report This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
Picture of gw3971
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by synthplayer:
On either side of the argument, you have to admit he was in over his head. Had my brother been on the scene and was armed, he would've gone in to try to neutralize the killer. It's just the kind of person he was - which I believe was why he was suited to be a LEO.

This cop was not right for the job.


Exactly. Peterson had been working there for the better part of two decades. He worked at a school where arresting suspects took a backseat to making excuses for bad behavior. He was retired on duty and the Sheriff is responsible for not making sure he had the right people in the right places.
 
Posts: 6332 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Report This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
I want you guys to look at the first post of this thread, and then I want you to look at what's being discussed now.

You guys need to get this out of your system and wrap it up, because I'm locking this thread tonight. There's simply no point in leaving this thing open any longer. Quite frankly, I'm tired of seeing this thread pop back up to the top.

I'm just not interested in having my thread used for the purposes of bickering over this cowardly asshole.

Get your comments in because I'm locking this thread tonight.
 
Posts: 86791 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Ethically, morally, and viscerally, I think that fucker is guilty of cowardice of the highest order and willful dereliction, and should pay the heaviest of prices.

But from a strictly legal standpoint, I agree that charging him criminally is potentially troublesome. The Supreme Court's prior ruling about police responsibility for individual protection was specifically written that way for a reason.

Slippery slope. Unintended consequences. Etc.



If a "school resource officer" has no duty to defend anyone at the school, why are they there?
Same could be said for the cop rolling around in a patrol car given SCOTUS has essentially weighed in that they have no 'legal' responsibility to act to protect us.

Look, this is an incredibly emotional issue, and I personally would like to see Peterson's head on a stake, but I just don't think this "caregiver" argument is going to fly in the long run.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 28247 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:...
But from a strictly legal standpoint, I agree that charging him criminally is potentially troublesome..


From Chapter 827 on Neglect of a Child/Bodily Harm:
b) A person who willfully or by culpable negligence neglects a child and in so doing causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the child commits a felony of the second degree

Florida law refers to the "person" also as a "caregiver" in that statute. In a 2005 3rd DCA case in Florida, caregiver definition was attached to a school teacher that did nothing to stop another person from harming a student. (State v Christie, 939 So2d 1078) Not a big jump to consider Peterson, an armed deputy who's specific duty is to "serve and protect", a "caregiver" to the children at that school.

His attorney will have a hard time arguing he was there, at the school, just to get fat and earn a pension.
 
Posts: 1785 | Registered: September 19, 2011Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by gw3971:
So we are charging people with crimes for what they didn't do?


It is a crime to NOT pay your taxes. So, yes, when you have a legal obligation to act and don't act, it is a crime.
 
Posts: 6047 | Location: Virginia | Registered: January 22, 2001Report This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Broadside:
quote:
Originally posted by gw3971:
So we are charging people with crimes for what they didn't do?


It is a crime to NOT pay your taxes. So, yes, when you have a legal obligation to act and don't act, it is a crime.


This is a ridiculous comparison.

Look, the guy is a coward of the first order, and if I were a parent of a kid in that school whether she was harmed or not I'd want to strangle this yellow lowlife, but there is no "legal obligation" to sacrafice your life for anyone else's, even if that person is a child. And the fact that this guy was a LEO is probably irrelevant.

This coward should be ridiculed for the rest of his days, but I don't see these charges ultimately turning into a conviction. It will be interesting to watch though.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 22155 | Location: Ski Town, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Report This Post
Leave the gun.
Take the cannoli.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
You guys need to get this out of your system and wrap it up, because I'm locking this thread tonight. There's simply no point in leaving this thing open any longer. Quite frankly, I'm tired of seeing this thread pop back up to the top.


Is this what Arc calls necroposting? Big Grin
 
Posts: 6286 | Location: New England | Registered: January 06, 2003Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
there is no "legal obligation" to sacrafice your life for anyone else's, even if that person is a child.
I don't see where anyone is asking him to do that.

People say "Oh it was AR15 vs Glock", but Peterson didn't know that. He had no idea what kind of gun was being used. But he knew it was the crazy kid they all knew about.

Nobody is asking this guy to go into certain death, but it's his job to risk his life to help others. Cops do that everyday and plenty of the Coral Springs PD did it as soon as they arrived.

I doubt he will be convicted, but maybe he'll take a plea deal. Regardless, I hope it bleeds him dry financially, mentally, and emotionally.
 
Posts: 42579 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
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