The Predictable Insanity Surrounding the Florida Shooting

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January 02, 2019, 04:23 PM
The Predictable Insanity Surrounding the Florida Shooting
Originally posted by sigfreund:Yeah, psychologists and therapists are going to make us a lot safer. Roll Eyes

Nothing wrong with having psychologists available to intercept some of these crazies before they turn homicidal/suicidal, but I think the SRO serves functions beyond protecting from troubled current students (like former students in this case). Of course, the SRO actually has to do his job to be effective.
January 02, 2019, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by MNSIG:
Originally posted by sigfreund:Yeah, psychologists and therapists are going to make us a lot safer. Roll Eyes

Nothing wrong with having psychologists available to intercept some of these crazies before they turn homicidal/suicidal ....

There still must be something in place to identify the ones that would benefit from a psychologist’s intervention. Based on what I can tell from case studies, there are plenty of schools that don’t have anything like that, and at least a properly trained (and motivated) SRO may make a difference if all the other efforts (assuming there are any) fail.

“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
January 02, 2019, 04:37 PM

No argument.

Probably a good application of "both".

Schools seem to waste incredible amounts of money on a variety of programs that could be cut to provide funding for more counselors and SROs.
January 02, 2019, 04:59 PM
Pipe Smoker
“The commission investigating a shooting massacre at a Florida high school have unanimously approved its initial findings and recommendations, including a controversial proposal that teachers who volunteer and undergo training be allowed to carry guns.

The 15-member Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Public Safety Commission's 446-page report, which was released on Wednesday, details what members believe happened before, during and after the February 14 shooting attack that left 17 dead dead and 17 others wounded.

The commission has sent the report to Governor Rick Scott, incoming governor Ron DeSantis and the Legislature.

The Legislature would have to approve the proposal to allow teachers to carry guns. It is currently opposed by the teachers union and the Parent Teacher Association…”

Look about you.
January 08, 2019, 04:17 PM

Broward Sheriff Scott Israel tells staff he’s being suspended over Parkland response

It appears that Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel is preparing to pack up his office.

The two-term sheriff, the object of fierce criticism over BSO’s handling of the Parkland massacre, told his top commanders that he will be removed from office by Gov. Ron DeSantis, sources have told the Miami Herald.

DeSantis, who was sworn in Tuesday morning, had not made a formal announcement of a possible suspension. Israel’s discussions with staff about his ouster was first reported by Miami New Times.

Stuart N. Kaplan, one of Israel’s lawyers, said Israel was in his office at the public safety building in Fort Lauderdale working on Tuesday.


Embattled Broward Sheriff Scott Israel told members of his command staff Tuesday that he expects Florida’s new governor to suspend him, sources say.

Israel reached the conclusion based on what people in Tallahassee told him, one source told the South Florida Sun Sentinel. The sheriff expects to be suspended “as soon as this week,” the source said.

The months-long parlor game of when Israel might be removed heated up Tuesday with the departure of Gov. Rick Scott and the swearing-in of Gov. Ron DeSantis.

In his inaugural remarks as the new leader of the Sunshine State, DeSantis said, “If a local official is neglectful of required duties, I will remove the official.”


So it sounds like it hasn't actually happened yet
January 08, 2019, 08:00 PM
There still must be something in place to identify the ones that would benefit from a psychologist’s intervention.

When I worked in counseling we had training in prediction of future behavior. That is, what profession can best predict what a person would do. Social Works were right about 30% of the time. Police officers were closer to 60%.

Arguably, more SROs will identify and stop more shooters.

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams
January 11, 2019, 03:57 PM

FT LAUDERDALE (CBSMiami) – CBS4 has learned Governor Ron DeSantis has signed an executive order removing embattled Broward Sheriff Scott Israel from office on Friday afternoon while heading to the Broward Sheriff’s Office main parking lot.

Governor Ron DeSantis was at the Broward Sheriff’s Office headquarters Friday afternoon where he delivered “a short statement saying he has suspended the Sheriff.” DeSantis was joined by parents of victims of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School massacre.

According to Florida statute, the governor has the power to suspend the sheriff for actions such as “misfeasance” and “neglect of duty” and may fill the office by appointment for the period of suspension. The actual power to remove the sheriff from office is in the hands of the state Senate.

According to the state Senate website, it makes “final dispositions” on whether to reinstate a suspended official or remove him from office.

Sources told CBS4 News that DeSantis intends to name retired Coral Springs Police Sgt. Gregory Tony as Broward’s interim sheriff.

If that happens, Tony would be the county’s first African-American sheriff

Tony’s resume cites advanced degrees and he runs a company focused on active shooter training and response, including efforts to train civilians on ‘stop the bleed’ techniques.

It was reportedly Andrew Pollack, whose daughter Meadow died in the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High massacre, that recommended Tony.

While campaigning last year, DeSantis said on multiple occasions that Israel should be suspended for how he and his office handled the massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.


Sheriff Scott Israel suspended over failures during Parkland shooting, replaced by Gregory Tony
January 11, 2019, 04:30 PM
That’s a good start. How many under him have the same mind set as Israel?

January 11, 2019, 05:13 PM


"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
January 11, 2019, 08:51 PM
Jimbo Jones

Isarel, you and Brenda Snipes can go and piss and moan about how you are going to fight to get your jobs back. I hope the State Senate makes the suspension permanent. I grew up in Broward County and would like to hear about Tony (sounds like a solid choice - former SWAT, BSO outsider) or whomever takes over full time cleaning house at BSO and getting serious about tactical training.

It's like my brain's a tree and you're those little cookie elves.
January 11, 2019, 09:33 PM
FINALLY! A small slice of accountability.
January 11, 2019, 09:53 PM
If the senate removes him for misfeasance does that open him up to civil liability?
January 11, 2019, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by mbinky:
FINALLY! A small slice of accountability.

Exactly my thoughts

I'm sorry, I'm thinking about the cats again...
January 12, 2019, 07:44 AM
Then unfortunate part about this, and is lost on a lot of people, is that Israel's (BSO) handling of the Ft Lauderdale Airport shooting was a complete CF. This information was relayed to me from a very high ranking Broward emergency response person that was directly involved in that action. Communication did not exist and the issue lasted hours due to no central command. 911 kept receiving calls of other shooters at FLL because plain cloths cops were responding and (with no central command) no one knew where they were.

Fast forward to MSD, same exact problems, No central command. Israel learn nothing from the first incident. Forget everything else, his failure to lean from past mistakes should be the main reason he was removed.

And, if you live in Broward, you also know of all the "questionable" contracts for services that went to his friends from day one of his taking office.
January 12, 2019, 09:46 AM
Of course I saw this coming he is fighting his suspension. This narcissistic ass thinks he was/is not a the problem.

January 12, 2019, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by darthfuster:
Originally posted by mbinky:
FINALLY! A small slice of accountability.

Exactly my thoughts

Hate to echo but I wholeheartedly agree.
January 12, 2019, 04:45 PM
Floyd D. Barber

Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M Nixon

It's nice to be important, it's more important to be nice.
Billy Joe Shaver

NRA Life Member

January 20, 2019, 09:25 PM
This is an OPINION piece:

FBI got a pass on Parkland school shooting after fumbling tips | Opinion

By Jerry Green
Jan 20, 2019 6AM

In the early 1980’s, as a Miami police homicide supervisor, I assisted in the investigation of one of the few Miami mass murders. At a local welding shop, eight innocent victims were gunned down by a criminal with a shotgun over a money dispute. For most of my career, mass murders were isolated incidents. Unfortunately, mass murders are now too frequent and I have closely followed information on the many mass murders we have had in America.

The tragedy on Feb. 14, 2018, at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland should have all of us concerned about what did and what didn’t occur.

The Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Public Safety Commission has found numerous incidents in which officials and agencies failed to protect the students before and during the mass murder. However, this week’s removal of former Broward Sheriff Scott Israel seems to discount the failures of the FBI.

The whole incident makes me very sad. I know how parents feel because my wife’s son was murdered in Coral Springs seven years ago in a vicious knife attack. It took over five years for the murder to be solved by a dedicated detective and great back-up from the Coral Springs Police Department. Decades of being involved in violent crime police work did not help me prepare for my own stepson’s murder.

I know there are lots of folks, especially young, who are upset over gun control issues after mass murders with assault firearms. The use of handguns, knives, blunt objects, cars, bombs, etc. seems to be of almost no concern. Right now, it’s all about assault firearms and their ability to do great harm.

I’m no big fan of assault firearm possession. However, I am a big fan of the facts and truth. The failures of the FBI in doing nothing to intervene well before the murderer’s rampage at Stoneman Douglas does not seem to resonate with most people. Most of the concern seems to center around all the problems that occurred after the criminal shooter entered the school and opened fire on teachers and students. Most lawsuits by parents seem to be missing the first and main reason the Parkland MSD school murders occurred. The mighty FBI so seriously dropped the ball that there must be a reason why the federal agency’s failures are not on the front burner?

Again, I believe the FBI’s failure to follow up on the specific “tips” they received is the main reason the Parkland mass murders occurred.

The FBI fumbled two tips that the future shooter was planning acts of violence. The tips about accused shooter Nikolas Cruz, came from separate sources in the months prior to the Feb. 14 shooting that left 17 dead and 17 wounded.

The agency learned Sept. 25, 2017, that someone with the username "nikolas cruz" had posted a comment on a YouTube video that said, "I am going to be a professional school shooter." The agency closed the investigation after 16 days, after doing little to track down the poster, including failing to request the information from Google, which owns YouTube.

Another detailed tip emerged only weeks before the massacre, but it was discarded. FBI deputy director David Bowdich, who met with families of the victims last month, told them that he “was appalled” the first time he listened to the tape of the Jan. 5 tip made to the FBI’s national call center in West Virginia. The anonymous, 14-minute call warned that Cruz was “about to explode” and could go into a school and “start shooting it up.” The information was not forwarded to the FBI’s South Florida field office for further investigation, not even after Cruz’s name was linked to the earlier tip in Sept. 2017.

To be clear, the shooter was 100 percent responsible for everything that happened once he got into the school. Even if the Broward Sheriff’s Office school deputy and others’ poor response had been better, the shooter was already killing and shooting innocent victims before help could be summoned.

But if the FBI had responded by a routine follow-up on the information they had before the murders, the criminal involved could have been interviewed and/or arrested, his guns confiscated and — through the court process — intervention could have been mandated. With FBI action, I believe there would have been no mass murder at Stoneman Douglas.

Jerry Green spent nearly 33 years with the Miami police department, mostly as a detective and garnered officer of the year honors from local and national organizations. He retired in 2001 and now lives in Lake Placid, Fla.
January 20, 2019, 10:05 PM
Again, I believe the FBI’s failure to follow up on the specific “tips” they received is the main reason the Parkland mass murders occurred.
Bingo. And the FBI has all but skated completely free on this one. Disgusting.

Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
January 30, 2019, 01:27 PM

Gov. DeSantis says he's considering 'accountability' for Broward school board members

by Skyler Swisher and Susannah BryanContact Reporters
South Florida Sun Sentinel
Jan 30, 2019 2PM

Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis is considering suspending Broward School Board members over the Parkland shooting and hopes to make a decision in the next few weeks.

DeSantis said Wednesday he does not think he has the authority to suspend the appointed superintendent, Robert Runcie, but he is exploring whether he could take action with regard to members of the School Board.

The board is responsible for hiring and firing the superintendent. Parents of students killed in the Feb. 14 massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School have been vocal in calling for a change in leadership.

“They are frustrated not just with the superintendent but I think with the School Board,” DeSantis said. “There seems like there is something new that happens every day where someone is not being listened to. There may be options where we can look at accountability there, but it will be different than me saying the superintendent is out.”

School Board member Ann Murray was flabbergasted to hear she and some of her colleagues might be suspended by the governor.

“You’re sort of blindsiding me,” she told a South Florida Sun Sentinel reporter Wednesday. “This boggles my mind. I don’t know what’s on the governor’s agenda.”

Murray questioned whether his motives were political.

“DeSantis is a Republican and Broward is strong Democratic stronghold,” she said. “And politics does seep in. I would think he’d be fighting to get funding for us to better secure our schools. The one thing lacking is the money.”

Murray said she has not yet met with the governor or gotten a call from his office.

“This gentleman doesn’t know anything about my history or what any of us have done,” she said. “The people spoke when they elected us all.”

Murray said she hopes DeSantis “comes up with some sound reasoning” for making such a comment about suspending her or any of her colleagues on the nine-member board.

“We have taken this head on,” Murray said of work done by the board to make schools in Broward County safer. “I’m going to stand solid with the direction we’re going on in. This is such a mind-boggling situation.”

School Board member Nora Rupert was also taken aback by the news.

“I was surprised he would go there right away,” she said of DeSantis. “It was surprising to me, the timing.”

Rupert said she doesn’t feel as though she’s in the clear, despite her criticism of Runcie.

“We are all leaders and we bear responsibility to the public for the actions we took and the actions we didn’t take,” Rupert said. “I feel like everybody could be swept out. I think every single one of us is at risk.”

Rupert said she has done her best to hold Runcie accountable.

“I have called him on every misstep,” Rupert said. “I’ve pointed out where there have been errors in his leadership.”

Rupert said she hopes DeSantis takes that into consideration before making his decision.

“Hopefully he looks at the body of work the School Board has accomplished,” she said. “Granted, he could throw everybody out. I don’t feel safe. But I certainly stand on my record.”

DeSantis has not shied away from suspending elected officials. In his first 10 days of office, he suspended Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel, Palm Beach County elections head Susan Bucher and Mary Beth Jackson, the elected school superintendent in Okaloosa County.

This is a developing story and will be updated.