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Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
So, we have- what? Cowards playing the odds that they can go twenty years as a police oficer without getting shot at, and then draw a pension?

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but if you don't have the courage to face gunfire, you have no business being a police officer.


Para, sadly what you say is too true. I have a family member who is a retired LEO. I can say without any doubt or hesitation that he would have been the first into the building!

How many kids would have been saved, or not injured, if the cowards had done their damned job and stormed the building. Even if that storming consisted of only 1 LEO.


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville

FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 24480 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Report This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
Plenty of real heroes on the scene that day. None of them had the training, bullet proof vests, or firearms, yet they seemed to be capable of doing what needed to be done:

quote:
Geography teacher Scott Beigel was killed after he unlocked a classroom for students to enter and hide from the gunman.[47][48] Aaron Feis, an assistant football coach and security guard, was killed as he shielded two students.[49] Chris Hixon, the school's athletic director, was killed as he ran toward the sound of the gunfire and tried to help fleeing students.[50]

Student Peter Wang was last seen in his Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC) uniform, holding doors open so others could get out more quickly; Wang was unable to flee with the students when Cruz appeared and fatally shot him. Commentators commended his actions and described him as a hero. A White House petition was circulated, calling for him to be buried with full military honors.[51][52] At their respective funerals, Wang, Alaina Petty, and Martin Duque were all posthumously honored by the U.S. Army with the ROTC Medal for Heroism, and Wang was buried in his JROTC Blues uniform. On February 20, he was given a rare posthumous admission to the United States Military Academy.[53]

Meadow Pollack was a senior who was shot four times during the shooting. As Cruz shot into other classrooms, she crawled to a classroom door but was unable to get inside. Cara Loughran was alongside Pollack, and Pollack covered Loughran in an attempt to shield her from the bullets. Cruz returned to the classroom and located Pollack and Loughran. He discharged his weapon five more times, killing Pollack and Loughran.[56]

The last victim to remain hospitalized, 15-year-old Anthony Borges, from Venezuela, was released on April 4. Dubbed "the real Iron Man", Borges was shot five times after he used his body to barricade the door of a classroom where twenty students were inside.



________________________



www.zykansafe.com
 
Posts: 13683 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
Plenty of real heroes on the scene that day. None of them had the training, bullet proof vests, or firearms, yet they seemed to be capable of doing what needed to be done:

TRUTH.
 
Posts: 42774 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
delicately calloused
Picture of darthfuster
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
Plenty of real heroes on the scene that day. None of them had the training, bullet proof vests, or firearms, yet they seemed to be capable of doing what needed to be done:

TRUTH.


That's the kind of cut-throught-the-BS perspicacity that I appreciate from a1abdj...Smile



I'm sorry, I'm thinking about the cats again...
 
Posts: 25126 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
In a Sheriffs Office headed by a cowardly cocksucker, why am I NOT surprised there are a bunch of cowardly cocksuckers in the Sheriffs Office.
 
Posts: 2788 | Location: St.Louis County MO | Registered: October 13, 2006Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
It's either cowardice or dereliction of duty.
Quite simply put, he was either a chickenshit or didn't do what he was supposed to do.

He did it while ON DUTY.

Charge his little bitch ass.

We know what the outcome should be. Then yank his pension away from him.


_____________________________________________________________________

"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 5656 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Report This Post
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https://www.sun-sentinel.com/l...ion-day-2-story.html

Broward Sheriff’s sergeant called 'an absolute, total failure' as Parkland shooting panel slams agency

by David Fleshler Contact Reporter
South Florida Sun Sentinel
Dec 13, 2018 5:15PM

The state commission investigating the Parkland school shooting agreed Thursday to strengthen its criticism of the Broward Sheriff’s Office’s weak initial response to the massacre.

The Marjory Stoneman Douglas Public Safety Commission, meeting in Tallahassee, spent the morning going through its draft report on the law enforcement response and agreed to further highlight the Sheriff’s Office failures in command, training and individual performance.

Sgt. Brian Miller, the first supervisor on the scene, arrived in time to hear three or four shots. But rather than rush in or attempt to take command, the report said he took time to put on his bulletproof vest and hid behind his car on Holmberg Road, not going on the radio for 10 minutes.

“Miller failed to coordinate or direct deputies’ actions and did not direct or coordinate an immediate response into the school,” the report said. “… Sergeant Miller’s actions were ineffective and he did not properly supervise the scene.”

Members of the committee said this was insufficient.

“He was an absolute, total failure,” said Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd.

Commission chairman and Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said Miller had claimed to have been hindered by the Sheriff Office’s overwhelmed radio system, but said that explanation was “erroneous” because Miller arrived before a heavy deputy presence caused radio problems.

The panel agreed to change the language to say Miller “refused and failed to accept responsibility” for taking command. Miller has been placed on restricted duty pending an internal investigation. Miller, 57, was paid $138,410.25 in 2017.

Although the initial criticism of the Sheriff’s Office focused on school deputy Scot Peterson, who took cover for what turned out to be a stunning 48 minutes, the report found that the problems at the sheriff’s office ran deep.

Several sheriff’s deputies said they remembered little if anything of their active shooter training. The commission agreed to add to the report the words, “BSO’s training was inconsistent at best and was reflected in their poor response to this active shooter event.”

And Miller wasn’t the only supervisor to fail Feb. 14, the day of the massacre that took 17 lives, according to the report.

Capt. Jan Jordan, the Sheriff’s Office Parkland district chief, was described by colleagues as disengaged and ineffective during her time as the senior officer at the scene. She spent her first seven minutes at the scene in an office and then taking cover behind a parked car.

“Captain Jordan failed to timely establish an incident command and was ineffective is her duties as the initial incident commander,” the report states.

Jordan resigned after her handling of the crisis was criticized by the commission.

Confusion continued after the arrival of the next senior officer, Col. Jim Polan, because there were multiple command posts. Polan was at the tactical operations center, not the command post.

“Colonel Polan’s absence at the CP confused others as to who was the incident commander,” the report said.

The Sheriff’s Office plans to use the commission’s findings as a basis for its own investigation, a spokeswoman said Thursday. Then, “we’ll take appropriate steps to make any necessary improvements,” she said in email.

Although there have been calls for Broward Sheriff Scott Israel to resign, he said Thursday that he had no such intention.

“I have done nothing that would warrant my resignation and have absolutely no intentions of resigning,” he said. “I am committed to BSO and the safety of Broward County. I will remain sheriff for so long as the voters of Broward County want to have me.”

The report criticized the Broward Sheriff’s Office active shooter policy for saying deputies “may” rather than “shall” go in and confront the shooter, a change made by Israel who said deputies should have discretion and not be required to undertake a “suicide mission.”

The draft report put it like this: “The use of the word “may” in the BSO policy is ambiguous and does not unequivocally convey the expectation that deputies are expected to immediately enter an active assailant scene where gun fire is active and neutralize the threat.”

But commission members concluded that this too was insufficient and said it needed to be made clear that law enforcement offices must go in immediately after the shooter.


“We’ve known this since Columbine,” said Ryan Petty, whose 14-year-old daughter Alaina was killed in the attack. “And for a law enforcement agency to reject that I think puts our most vulnerable citizens at risk.”

Okaloosa County Sheriff Larry Ashley agreed.

“We certainly know it’s a moral and ethical responsibility to go forward,” he said. “And ‘may’ takes that moral and ethical responsibility away.”

Judd said the language needed to be strengthened.

“I think we need to say in the strongest terms that was a poor decision to use the word ‘may.’ It should be shall. That is a best practice, and I think the overwhelming majority of people in our industry agree with that.”

The new wording said this: “Sheriff Israel’s use of the word ‘may’ in the BSO active assailant policy is inconsistent with current and standard law enforcement practices.”

The commission also voted Thursday to recommend school districts have the right to establish armed guardian programs without the approval of the county sheriff. Under current law, a guardian program requires approval of both the sheriff and the school board.

The panel of law enforcement officers, public officials and parents of the murdered students released its preliminary 407-page report this week. The final report will be presented to the governor and state Legislature by Jan. 1.

dfleshler@sun-sentinel.com, 954-356-4535
 
Posts: 13882 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Report This Post
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posted Hide Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^
The report criticized the Broward Sheriff’s Office active shooter policy for saying deputies “may” rather than “shall” go in and confront the shooter, a change made by Israel who said deputies should have discretion and not be required to undertake a “suicide mission.”

In reference to sdy's post above, according the information in it, none of the Coward County Deputies violated department policy......You can pretty much forget any dereliction of duty charges against any of the deputies involved.
 
Posts: 2788 | Location: St.Louis County MO | Registered: October 13, 2006Report This Post
goodheart
Picture of sjtill
posted Hide Post
Hope not a jib-jab:

Parkland commission report says teachers should be allowed to carry guns

quote:
A bombshell draft report from the Marjory Stoneman Douglas Public Safety Commission which has been meeting since April to investigate the Feb. 14 mass shooting at a Florida high school amounts to a reality check for gun control advocates. That’s because one of the recommendations to improve security at schools is to arm teachers. The South Florida Sun Sentinel said a draft report from the panel identifies several failures “by Broward County agencies” which the recommendations would ostensibly correct:

The 407-page report, which is not final, found that deputies didn’t rush into the school to stop the carnage, and school staff committed numerous security breaches, including leaving doors unlocked and not calling a “Code Red” alarm quickly enough.

The panel also voted to include a controversial proposal allowing classroom teachers to carry guns in schools if they go through a selection process that would include background checks and training. Such a change would require the state Legislature’s approval.


_________________________
“Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things.”--Adam Smith, born June 16, 1723
 
Posts: 15157 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Report This Post
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https://www.sun-sentinel.com/l...-20181217-story.html

Cops and schools had no duty to shield students in Parkland shooting, says judge who tossed lawsuit

by Lisa J. Huriash
Contact Reporter
South Florida Sun Sentinel
Dec 17, 2018 12:55PM

A federal judge says Broward schools and the Sheriff’s Office had no legal duty to protect students during the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

U.S. District Judge Beth Bloom dismissed a suit filed by 15 students who claimed they were traumatized by the crisis in February. The suit named six defendants, including the Broward school district and the Broward Sheriff’s Office, as well as school deputy Scot Peterson and campus monitor Andrew Medina.

Bloom ruled that the two agencies had no constitutional duty to protect students who were not in custody.

“The claim arises from the actions of [shooter Nikolas] Cruz, a third party, and not a state actor,” she wrote in a ruling Dec. 12. “Thus, the critical question the Court analyzes is whether defendants had a constitutional duty to protect plaintiffs from the actions of Cruz.

“As previously stated, for such a duty to exist on the part of defendants, plaintiffs would have to be considered to be in custody” — for example, as prisoners or patients of a mental hospital, she wrote.

Peterson was the only armed person at the school when Cruz showed up with an assault rifle and murdered 17 people, in addition to wounding 17 more. Peterson has been widely vilified for taking refuge outside the school and not confronting Cruz.

“His arbitrary and conscience-shocking actions and inactions directly and predictably caused children to die, get injured, and get traumatized,” the lawsuit claimed.

Medina knew Cruz and saw him arrive on campus, but did not confront him.

The lawsuit argued that the Sheriff’s Office and School Board “either have a policy that allows killers to walk through a school killing people without being stopped. Alternatively, they have such inadequate training that the individuals tasked with carrying out the polices … lack the basic fundamental understandings of what those policies are such that they are incapable of carrying them out.”

Kristoffer R. Budhram of Jacksonville, who represented the students, said in an emailed statement: “We respectfully disagree with Judge Bloom's decision to dismiss our clients' case. This case is about protecting the Constitutional rights of individuals who were the victims of one of the worst mass shootings in this country’s history.

“We are exploring all of our options for ensuring that they get their day in court, including appealing Judge Bloom's decision," Budhram wrote.

Bloom’s ruling contrasts with the action of a Broward County judge last week.

In that case, Peterson’s lawyer sought to dismiss a lawsuit filed by the family of Meadow Pollack, one of 17 people killed in the shooting. Broward Circuit Judge Patti Englander Henning rejected his argument that Peterson had “no legal duty” to protect the students and faculty.

Englander Henning found that Peterson had a duty to the school community as someone whose job was security and who had an “obligation to act reasonably” under the circumstances of the shooting.

The judge also found Peterson was not protected from the lawsuit by “sovereign immunity,” a legal doctrine that shields public employees from legal action based on their official conduct.

Joel Perwin, Pollack’s attorney, said: “We don’t think it's even debatable that Peterson had a duty to these students. Peterson’s disclaimer of any legal responsibility is a mirror of his abdication of his responsibility for these kids,” he said.

Peterson’s lawyer, Michael Piper, said he would appeal the ruling.
 
Posts: 13882 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Report This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
quote:
Cops and schools had no duty to shield students in Parkland shooting



Unfortunately the Judge is correct, but think about that for a second.

The very same government that tells you that you don't need to protect yourself because they will do it for you. The very same government that tells you not to protect others because you're doing "their job". That very same government has no duty to do what they tell you they're there to do.

When the worst happens some bureaucrat will shrug his/her/zeir shoulders and start a comment with "Well......." They want to control your life in exchange for protection, but when it comes down to it that protection is at their discretion, and it's just your bad luck when you find yourself at the short end of that stick.


________________________



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Posts: 13683 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Report This Post
Muzzle flash
aficionado
Picture of flashguy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
Cops and schools had no duty to shield students in Parkland shooting



Unfortunately the Judge is correct, but think about that for a second.

The very same government that tells you that you don't need to protect yourself because they will do it for you. The very same government that tells you not to protect others because you're doing "their job". That very same government has no duty to do what they tell you they're there to do.

When the worst happens some bureaucrat will shrug his/her/zeir shoulders and start a comment with "Well......." They want to control your life in exchange for protection, but when it comes down to it that protection is at their discretion, and it's just your bad luck when you find yourself at the short end of that stick.
The judge is correct about the police, but the school is in the position of "in loco parentis" and I believe it IS responsible for the safety of the students attending.

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth

When they ask me, "Paper or plastic?" I just say, "Doesn't matter to me. I am bi-sacksual."
 
Posts: 22249 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Report This Post
Member
Picture of mikeyspizza
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
Cops and schools had no duty to shield students in Parkland shooting



Unfortunately the Judge is correct, but think about that for a second.

The very same government that tells you that you don't need to protect yourself because they will do it for you. The very same government that tells you not to protect others because you're doing "their job". That very same government has no duty to do what they tell you they're there to do.

When the worst happens some bureaucrat will shrug his/her/zeir shoulders and start a comment with "Well......." They want to control your life in exchange for protection, but when it comes down to it that protection is at their discretion, and it's just your bad luck when you find yourself at the short end of that stick.
Well said!
 
Posts: 3004 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 16, 2003Report This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
posted Hide Post
It's grade school. You're required to attend, by law. You may as well be a prisoner in custody. They're certainly responsible for you, and access to students - like who can check you out for a Dr appointment, and so on. It's not a job or a hobby or an issue of choice, you can't just quit or leave whenever the hell you want. You can be detained, have your property searched, and you can be punished and given extra duties and/or detention/etc.

If that's not equivalent to custody the moon in made of Swiss cheese...
 
Posts: 23419 | Registered: March 12, 2004Report This Post
I Am The Walrus
posted Hide Post
How did those cowards even get hired?

They should be hung as deserters.

Hiding outside behind the safety of cover, not getting on the radio, failing to take charge when you're the ranking officer. And that dipshit calls himself a Colonel? Colonel Sanders probably has more balls than that dick head.


_____________

Edmond
 
Posts: 10127 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: March 12, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mikeyspizza:
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
Cops and schools had no duty to shield students in Parkland shooting



Unfortunately the Judge is correct, but think about that for a second.

The very same government that tells you that you don't need to protect yourself because they will do it for you. The very same government that tells you not to protect others because you're doing "their job". That very same government has no duty to do what they tell you they're there to do.

When the worst happens some bureaucrat will shrug his/her/zeir shoulders and start a comment with "Well......." They want to control your life in exchange for protection, but when it comes down to it that protection is at their discretion, and it's just your bad luck when you find yourself at the short end of that stick.
Well said!


I agree with a1abdj too. Good explanation.




 
Posts: 11184 | Location: Northwest of the 3rd world shithole known as Denver | Registered: June 18, 2008Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
Cops and schools had no duty to shield students in Parkland shooting



Unfortunately the Judge is correct, but think about that for a second.

The very same government that tells you that you don't need to protect yourself because they will do it for you. The very same government that tells you not to protect others because you're doing "their job". That very same government has no duty to do what they tell you they're there to do.

When the worst happens some bureaucrat will shrug his/her/zeir shoulders and start a comment with "Well......." They want to control your life in exchange for protection, but when it comes down to it that protection is at their discretion, and it's just your bad luck when you find yourself at the short end of that stick.
The judge is correct about the police, but the school is in the position of "in loco parentis" and I believe it IS responsible for the safety of the students attending.

flashguy


Flashguy IS correct, not just the "school" but all of its employees. In training, it is told to us multiple times, that we have a duty to protect the students identity, their safety, in reporting suspicious activity so on and so forth.

The term of "in loco parentis" is used in training multiple times.

ARman
 
Posts: 2261 | Registered: May 19, 2010Report This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
posted Hide Post
quote:
Flashguy IS correct, not just the "school" but all of its employees. In training, it is told to us multiple times, that we have a duty to protect the students identity, their safety, in reporting suspicious activity so on and so forth.

The term of "in loco parentis" is used in training multiple times.



I agree that the school has a duty to protect the children, but it does not have infinite liability. I expect a school to make all reasonable efforts to protect the kids but also realize there are many instances where that simply isn't possible. A bad guy with a gun is one of those instances, as are tornadoes and other random acts beyond the control of the staff.

You can take precautions against natural disasters just like you can take precautions against crazy people with guns, but you won't stop either.


________________________



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Posts: 13683 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Report This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
the next logical question is that if the judge is correct in that they had no duty to protect....

why were they there in the first place?

window dressing?

smoke and mirrors?

good warm feelings?



Participating in a gun buy back program because you think criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbor has too many kids

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 48422 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
While Warren vs. District of Columbia decided that the Police have no duty to protect an individual citizen, the court recognized an exception for custodial situations. Are children in school in a custodial setting?
 
Posts: 927 | Registered: October 19, 2008Report This Post
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