Four armed cowards, all in hiding while the shooting happened? Of course that is possible. But I think at least one of them would not be able to stand it, doing nothing while kids are being shot. At least one of them would have gone in after the shooter. This makes me think that maybe they were following policy from their corrupt sheriff and the corrupt school board NOT to engage.

If that is the case, we have four cowards following corrupt orders.

I think before Columbine this was SOP. Secure the perimeter until the big guns showed up. Pretty sure I remember several of the LEO's here stating many times that the procedure had changed to not wait and go in.

Surely Broward County is not still teaching a protocol that outdated...

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:
Pertinent: LINK

Content at the above link is not well formatted for cutting and pasting a copy here, but the site appears safe, so please visit it and read.

Explains in great detail how local politics and a desire to show improving statistics resulted in the sheriff agreeing not to arrest school age kids. This resulted in the behaviors we see from the SRO and the cowardly deputies.

The sheriff and the local school board need to be charged and jailed.

SapperSteel, thanks for posting that link. It confirmed what I have read on several different cop forums right after the shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:
Four armed cowards, all in hiding while the shooting happened? Of course that is possible. But I think at least one of them would not be able to stand it, doing nothing while kids are being shot. At least one of them would have gone in after the shooter. This makes me think that maybe they were following policy from their corrupt sheriff and the corrupt school board NOT to engage.

If that is the case, we have four cowards following corrupt orders.

justjoe, I really have to wonder about this department:
1. Were they ever trained in Active Shooter Response? Did they have any policy/procedure in place for an active shooter?
2. Did they receive an order NOT to go in? It has happened before, up in New York state, the Chief ordered the officers not to go into some sort of help/education center which resulted in several victims bleeding out before police reached them much later.
3. The absence of any type of long gun, reports are deputies were hiding behind cars with pistols drawn) is telling. Do they even have any long guns? If so, are their policies so restrictive (some departments have a policy, a rifle or shotgun can only be deployed once a ranking supervisor on scene has authorized it, I kid you not) that even in this situation they didn't deploy it. Even a coward would grab the biggest gun he could in that situation. So options are all four froze or all four weren't authorized. It will be interesting if the radio traffic ever sees the light of day.

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:
Surely Broward County is not still teaching a protocol that outdated...

No, it’s possible they’re not teaching any protocol at all.

There’s a tendency to believe that American law enforcement is a great monolith and every agency and officer operates under the same policies and procedures and receives the same training. Nothing could be further from the truth. In large agencies, changing the head LEO can change virtually everything else; in small agencies, the replacement of a single supervisor can alter whether they form and maintain a special weapons and tactics team or sniper program. In this department it seems that they were far more interested in covering up crimes in the schools than training for an active shooter event.

And to reiterate what several of us have said, the fact that the officers hunkered outside evidently didn’t have rifles is an indication—if not proof—that no one had really given any thought to this sort of thing. If there is one thing that law enforcement agencies should have learned during the past decade or more, it’s the value of patrol rifles in the hands of every road officer. Many, however, still impose ridiculous restrictions on their approval and employment, or prohibit them entirely.

One of the issues arising out of the McDonalds shooting in San Ysidro in 1984 was that police set up a lockdown of a several block area, a command post, and eventually had several snipers deployed on nearby buildings, at least one on the post office next door.

It turned out that none was authorized to shoot until the Chief of Police gave the order which was delayed because it took an hour or so for the Chief to arrive. That left the shooter a long time to keep up his activities. I think that incident led to a review, and changes in tactics over time.

Stopping the threat as fast as possible is so obvious. That means good guys with guns who intend to use them.

quote:

It turned out that none was authorized to shoot until the Chief of Police gave the order which was delayed because it took an hour or so for the Chief to arrive. That left the shooter a long time to keep up his activities. I think that incident led to a review, and changes in tactics over time.

It still happens, many instances where officers were given orders to secure perimeter and not do anything from a ranking officer who was not on scene. It is called "Management and Leadership by Cell Phone"........not to be confused with the CHAOS Plan (Chief Has Arrived On Scene).

EDITED To ADD: After seeing the post from below this one about the medical response (no teams moving people to a casualty collection point, no teams moving medics in), I really believe they didn't do any Active Shooter training. I think Sheriff Dipshit is quick to blame the weapon, the officer, etc because he doesn't want anyone taking a good look at his department's practices and preparation. I can see one officer freezing up but to hear that 3 others from the same department did the exact same thing, along with the lack of a any type of casualty recovery tells me the fish is rotten from the head down.

There has been prior discussions of the “sheepdog” versus “wolf” mentality.

The responder quoted above is the mentality to aspire to - the good shepherd of John 10:11. I know the actual subject is Jesus persuading the Jews, but the select words have meaning to me in this context.


I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd, and the sheep are not his own. When he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf pounces on them and scatters the flock. The man runs away because he is a hired servant and is unconcerned for the sheep.

I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me, just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.

The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Condi Rice: it’s time to discuss what 2nd Amendment ‘means in the modern world’

“I think it is time to have a conversation about what the right to bear arms means in the modern world,” she told radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt. “I don’t understand why civilians need to have access to military weapons. We wouldn’t say you can go out and buy a tank.”

Well, actually you can. You just need a metric buttload of money.
Want to rent one Condi? Go here:
Drive and shoot tanks

quote:

After seeing the post from below this one about the medical response (no teams moving people to a casualty collection point, no teams moving medics in), I really believe they didn't do any Active Shooter training

Guess we can now stop with the "we're trained and you're not" BS every time arming teachers or allowing others with CCW permits to carry inside our schools comes up.

No one who buys a tank legally is going to risk losing it by doing something stupid. Just like Bill Gates doesn't know how much groceries cost, Condi has no idea what she is talking about. Or, she does know, and she is taking this opportunity to push what she believed all along.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Condi Rice: it’s time to discuss what 2nd Amendment ‘means in the modern world’

“I think it is time to have a conversation about what the right to bear arms means in the modern world,” she told radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt. “I don’t understand why civilians need to have access to military weapons. We wouldn’t say you can go out and buy a tank.”

Well, actually you can. You just need a metric buttload of money.
Want to rent one Condi? Go here:
Drive and shoot tanks

Damn, talk about weaponry....ya' gotta' love those people in Texas.

When you hear what Rice and Rubio said this week it is a reminder that RINOs are only on our side with the Second Amendment when it is politically convenient for them. They will abandon us in a heartbeat.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
My first thought when I read about the deputies sheltering outside with their pistols drawn was that perhaps if theirs is the sort of department that doesn’t issue (or perhaps even permit) patrol rifles, perhaps they don’t bother with active shooter training either. The basic training for such things isn’t very high level stuff, but without it, there’s no telling what people might decide to do, or not do.

But training is only part of it....the choice (or drive) to protect those weaker is more important. While I have been in combat I have never had "training" per say but it would take an armed line of people to stop me from grabbing my edc and the M5 bag from my truck and running in......even if I act as the biggest loudest target...it saves others.

The person, I will not call him a man, was pussy of the highest order....

Training is nice but at the end of the day one must have the intestinal fortitude to use it.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Enough about the Coward County deputies refusing to do their jobs, here's the story of a real man:

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534...n-douglas-hs-attack/

Meet the hero Coral Springs PD cop who ran toward the sound of gunfire, unarmed

Meet Sgt. Jeff Heinrich of the Coral Springs Police Department.

Sgt. Heinrich was off duty and unarmed at the time of the attack last week at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., but he was on campus watering one of the school’s athletic fields in just shorts and a T-shirt. Sgt. Heinrich’s wife is an assistant athletic director at the school, his son is on the football team.

When he heard the shots — remember now, he’s unarmed — he dropped the hose and ran toward the sound of gunfire where he immediately helped a student who was wounded. Minutes later, he met up with a Coral Springs PD SWAT team member who gave him a vest and a backup weapon and the two of them then entered the school to help clear classrooms.

Get some tissues handy as Sgt. Heinrich gets emotional toward the end when he talks about not knowing if his wife and son were OK while he was busy saving others:

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="408" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NMQ6M7GekMc" width="725"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

My point proven...

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
Some people have figured it out.

Thank you for posting that... I was looking for it.

Meet the Sheriff. Any further questions about his loyalties, leadership, or ethics?


SHERIFF ISRAEL EMBRACES 'DEPUTY HAMAS'

The Broward Sheriff makes excuses for why a leader of CAIR is his Deputy.

July 31, 2015

In response to this author’s article published in FrontPage Magazine last Friday about how CAIR leader Nezar Hamze is now a Deputy Sheriff at the Broward Sheriff’s Office (BSO), Sheriff Scott Israel appeared on WFTL-Fort Lauderdale’s Joyce Kaufman radio show to discuss the matter. On the show, Israel made a number of weak excuses as to why this has taken place. The following report will challenge these excuses, in an effort to expose this wrongdoing.

Since the beginning of this year, Sheriff Scott Israel has been hopping around from radical mosque to radical mosque, getting his smiling face photographed with a number of known Muslim extremists in South Florida. It turns out, during that time period, he has had his own Muslim extremist liaison to introduce him to those radical mosques, Nezar Hamze, the local head of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and now Deputy Sheriff.

This past Friday, Sheriff Israel made an appearance on the Joyce Kaufman show, a popular local conservative radio program, to discuss the subject of Deputy Hamze and whether or not this author was right in stating that, due to Hamze’s background as a leader of a Hamas-associated group and other issues, he should not be eligible to serve as a Deputy Sheriff.

On the show, Sheriff Israel stated that Hamze’s application had been vetted, that “it was looked at from every angle that one would expect.”

But did those who were involved in the vetting process account for the fact that Hamze was at the time involved in a group widely known to be associated with terrorism, that group being CAIR?

CAIR was founded in June 1994 as being part of the American Palestine Committee, an umbrella organization acting as a terrorist enterprise run by then-global head of Hamas, Mousa Abu Marzook. Marzook is currently based in Egypt as the number two leader in Hamas. If it were not for Marzook, neither CAIR nor any of its local chapters would exist today.

One of CAIR’s siblings within the Palestine Committee was the Holy Land Foundation (HLF), then-U.S. financing arm of Hamas. When two federal trials took place against HLF, in 2007 and 2008, for the raising of millions of dollars for Hamas, CAIR was named by the U.S. Justice Department a co-conspirator for both. On its official website, under a photo of the World Trade Center in flames, CAIR had placed a link for its followers to donate funds directly to HLF. The link was perversely disguised as a fundraiser for victims of the September 11 attacks.

In a separate trial in 2007, federal prosecutors stated the following regarding CAIR: “Moreover, from its founding by Muslim Brotherhood leaders, CAIR conspired with other affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood to support terrorists,” and “the conspirators agreed to use deception to conceal from the American public their connections to terrorists.”

On Joyce Kaufman’s radio show, Sheriff Israel said that he was “very familiar with CAIR” and that he knew that CAIR was labeled a co-conspirator for the HLF trials, but he said that CAIR was “not listed on [sic] the FBI/Homeland Security as a terrorist organization.”

So what the Sheriff was saying is that, if a candidate for Deputy Sheriff is a leader of a group that is largely associated with a terrorist organization, such as Hamas – Hamas, a group incidentally that Hamze has repeatedly refused to denounce – but is not involved in the terrorist organization itself, he is still a potential candidate for the job.

At one point, Sheriff Israel said that the issue of CAIR shouldn’t even be part of the discussion regarding Hamze. He stated, “[T]his isn’t about CAIR. This isn’t about any organization. This is about the Broward County Sheriff’s Office and the citizens of Broward County.”

To the contrary, this is very much about CAIR and other troubling issues as well.

Another disturbing association of Hamze’s is his relationship with Miami Islamist Sofian Abdelaziz Zakkout. Zakkout, the Director of the American Muslim Association of North America (AMANA), is a devout follower of both Hamas and white supremacist David Duke. Zakkout’s Facebook page is littered with Hamas logos and photos of masked Hamas militants and Hamas leaders, as well as a number of links to David Duke interviews and videos. His YouTube page contains an image of Hitler and videos of Hamas militants building bombs and firing rockets.

Over a graphic of deceased Hamas leaders – including Hamas founders Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi – which Zakkout posted on Facebook this past February, he wrote the following violent threat in Arabic, “It is an obligation and it is mentioned in the Quran to defend the land and the population. It is an obligation to kill those who left our religion. It is an obligation to kill those who fight our religion and to intimidate our enemies and the enemies of the religion. Everything is from the Quran, not from me.” And he signed it, “Sofian.”

In July 2014, Zakkout organized a pro-Hamas rally held in Downtown Miami, where the crowd chanted loudly a number of anti-Jewish and pro-Hamas slogans. Zakkout is shown on video with a huge grin on his face, as his mob repeatedly screams, “We are Hamas.” The rally was co-sponsored by Hamze’s CAIR-Florida. Following the event, Zakkout wrote in Arabic on his Facebook page, “Thank God, every day we conquer the American Jews like our conquests over the Jews of Israel!”

In August 2013, at another CAIR-Florida sponsored event that was run by Zakkout, which was advertised as a rally to stop bloodshed and violence in Egypt and Syria, participants were featured wearing t-shirts and holding signs displaying the Muslim Brotherhood four-finger ‘Rabaa’ logo on them. One rally goer held up a photo of jailed Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohamed Morsi. Both the Muslim Brotherhood and the logo have been banned by the Egyptian government for respectively being an institution and a symbol of terrorism.

Hamze and Zakkout have taken a number of photos together. One, which was posted by Zakkout on his Facebook page in February 2014, shows the two smiling with their arms around each other, with a caption that reads, “AMANA and CAIR united at ICNA event.”

ICNA or the Islamic Circle of North America has been involved in the financing of both Hamas and al-Qaeda and has used the web to promote a number of terrorist groups, including Hamas, al-Qaeda, Hezbollah and the Taliban. ICNA conducts annual functions along with the Muslim American Society (MAS), a group that has been named (along with CAIR) to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) government list of international terrorist organizations.

In August 2006, ICNA’s main charity, ICNA Relief, was the top donor and partner to Pakistani charity Al Khidmat Foundation (AKF), at the same time AKF took a delegation to Damascus, Syria to hand deliver nearly $100,000 to then and current global Hamas leader, Khaled Mashal. Mashal thanked the group and said Hamas would continue to wage “jihad” (war) on the “Zionist yoke” (Israel). ICNA Relief continues to work directly with AKF overseas.

In 2012, Hamze began meetings at the Broward Sheriff’s Office and elsewhere under the guise of a group called Florida Muslim Congress, inviting into the Sheriff’s premises Zakkout and other South Florida Islamists to meet with the BSO but more like infiltrate the BSO. The group’s stated goal was “to help ordinary citizens understand terrorism laws and avoid being accidentally linked to extremists” (i.e. extremists such as themselves). The group was established during former Sheriff Al Lamberti’s tenure and continued with the blessing of Sheriff Israel.

Both Hamze’s group CAIR and Zakkout’s group AMANA share the same legal advisor, Muslim convert Wilfredo Amr Ruiz, who has also attended the Florida Muslim Congress meetings.

During the radio show, Sheriff Israel made the false comparison between a drug counselor, who used to be an addict, and Hamze. He stated, “It has been proven that the best drug counselors in the world are actually former addicts, who can relate, who can understand. So if you want to get these guys in a specific community, isn’t it the best thing to get people – tried and true people – who belong to that community, who that community will believe in?”

The reason why this is a false comparison is because Hamze never left his radical Islamic life. He is still a leader of CAIR, a group that tells Muslims suspected of criminal activity not to talk to the FBI. Hamze is the Regional Operations Director of CAIR-Florida. He still attends radical conferences. And he obviously has not broken ties with his friend Zakkout.

Nezar Hamze associates with Muslim extremists, and he is one himself. As such, contrary to what Sheriff Israel claims, Hamze will most likely either tip his friends off to any pending investigations or arrests or, at the very least, look the other way.

Sheriff Israel told the radio hostess that he “absolutely” knows the difference between radical Islam and ordinary Muslims, but nothing could be further from the truth.

In 2015 alone, Israel has been photographed with Zakkout; with Maulana Shafayat Mohamed who has been thrown off different Broward County boards for his bigotry against homosexuals; with attorney Khurrum Wahid who represents high-profile al-Qaeda terrorists and has himself been placed on a terror watch list; and with Abdur Rahman al-Ghani who is quoted as saying “Zionist/Israelis… are demonic and the most evil on earth” and “Allah has decreed we will overtake the world in numbers” and posted on Facebook that the CIA should be “wiped-out.”

On the radio show, Sheriff Israel also took the opportunity to play the ‘race card.’ He said that “as Sheriff, I have to be reflective of Broward County… We don’t discriminate. As a Jew, I don’t want to be discriminated against. We’re a color-blind organization. We make sure we treat people with dignity and respect.”

Neither this author nor the radio talk show hostess, who interviewed the Sheriff, ever stated that he should discriminate against Muslims. That said, Nezar Hamze is a leader of a group that is closely linked to the terrorist organization Hamas, the same Hamas that Hamze has, in the recent past, refused to denounce. As well, Hamze has associated and continues to associate with those who support terror and bigotry.

Refusing to hire someone like Hamze or releasing someone like Hamze would clearly not be a case of anti-Muslim discrimination. It is simply common sense.

Finally, during the interview, Sheriff Israel tried to shift potential blame for the hiring of Hamze to the previous Sheriff, Al Lamberti. At the beginning of the interview, he stated, “Deputy Hamze – this is very important – was first hired as a police cadet by former Sheriff Al Lamberti. He met this guy. He hired him. He paid for him to go through the police academy up in Palm Beach County.” And later, he stated, “And the Sheriff that I defeated brought him to the Broward Sheriff’s Office, so it wasn’t somebody that we went out and recruited.”

However, Sheriff Israel admitted, during the interview, that he personally hired Hamze to be Deputy Sheriff. He stated, “He Graduated from the police academy and applied for the Broward Sheriff’s Office. At the time he applied for the Sheriff’s Office, I had soundly defeated Lamberti; I was the Sheriff of Broward County, and I dealt with the application.” He later stated, “I approved his hiring.”

In the hiring of Hamze, while it never should have taken place, it matters little now whose fault that was. What matters now is that this wrong gets rectified.

CAIR leader Nezar Hamze is an Islamic extremist who cavorts with radical Muslim individuals and organizations. He should not be wearing a law enforcement uniform or badge, and he certainly should not be permitted to carry a gun. He should instead be investigated for his leadership in a group that is connected to terrorists overseas.

To allow him to continue to serve in the Broward Sheriff’s Office is an embarrassment and affront to the great institution of law enforcement and a threat to local and national security.

He must be removed from his position immediately.

If you wish to contact Sheriff Israel to discuss this matter, you can do so by sending an e-mail to: ask_the_sheriff@sheriff.org, or you can call the Broward Sheriff’s Office, at 954-764-4357. Please be respectful in any and all communications with this office.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/f...ty-hamas-joe-kaufman

Honestly, this is stranger than fiction. This is the most colossal clusterfuck I have ever seen involving law enforcement. The CAIR sympathizing stuff is horrendous, but the very worst is scapegoating the NRA on national TV when Israel knew that his deputies had fucked up royally--and very likely, as pointed out above, because they did not have the right training or protocols to deal with a completely predictable situation. And that of course reflects directly on the leadership of the department.

Just found this online, linked by Instapundit:

quote:

Sure, I’ll Say It: ' Liberals Don’t Want to Stop School Shootings'
Rally at the Florida State Capitol Building For Gun Control on February 21, 2018. in Tallahassee, Florida. (Photo by Don Juan Moore/Getty Images)
“Many in legacy media love mass shootings. You guys love it. I’m not saying you guys love the tragedy, but I am saying you love the ratings. Crying white mothers are ratings gold.” – Dana Loesch

Know who else acts as if they love school shootings? Liberals. The liberals you see on TV. The liberals you read on Twitter. The liberals writing columns. What else can you think after watching the way liberals behave after mass shootings with large body counts? It’s the same thing every time.

A terrible tragedy happens. Some nutjob/terrorist/angry dirtbag shoots a lot of people. Before the blood is even dry on the ground, liberals take to social media to claim the killer is a conservative and demand new gun laws. If you suggest that perhaps we should wait to find out what happened before we start bringing politics into this, they ignore it. If you suggest that we pray for the victims, they viciously criticize that idea and mock Christians in general. When you ask which gun laws would put a stop to mass murders, they have no answer. Then they scream that the NRA is full of murderers. Of course, the killer never turns out to actually be an NRA member. Furthermore, the NRA never advocates for anything other than the rights of law-abiding citizens. As a matter of fact, when a shooter killed people in a Texas church in November of last year, it was an NRA member who stopped him.

Yet and still, after working themselves up into a frenzy screaming that the NRA is composed of murderers, after howling that law-abiding gun owners are killers, liberals move on to demand that we “DO SOMETHING.” The “something” involved is seldom defined and even when it is, it pretty clearly won’t stop school shootings. At this point, suspicious conservatives suggest that liberals seem to be angling for gun confiscation, something that would never work in America. Some liberals respond to this by saying, “That’s paranoia! Nobody wants that,” while others respond, “Hell yes, it’s time for gun confiscation.”

Perhaps more intriguingly, liberals show absolutely no interest in any policy that might stop school shootings that doesn’t involve taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. Metal detectors in all schools? Nope. Allowing trained teachers to bring guns to schools? Uh-uh. Armed guards in all schools? No way. That one guy ran away at Parkland, so that proves a good guy with a gun won't stop a bad guy with a gun. Of course, that makes about as much sense as saying the troops failed to stop Pearl Harbor, so using the military can never work. How about dramatically loosening the rules for involuntarily committing people with mental health issues? Sorry, the ACLU doesn’t like that, so nope. What about demanding more from sheriffs’ departments that drop the ball in these cases, like the Broward County Sheriff’s Department that made 39 trips out to the Parkland shooter’s home over the last seven years without arresting anyone? They were even told by the family that took him in, just months before the shooting, “He put the gun to the head of his brother before. This is not the first time, and he did that to his mom, and his mom died. It is not the first time that he put a gun on somebody’s head.” Heck, even the FBI was explicitly warned that the Parkland shooter wanted to kill people and it did nothing of consequence.

So are liberals calling for reforms of how sheriffs’ departments and the FBI handle issues like these? For the most part, no. Instead, they continue to obsessively, almost gleefully push for gun control that won’t solve the problem. It’s almost as if liberals look at dead kids as nothing more than convenient props they can use to push their agenda.

In fact, let me suggest something that you are not supposed to say: liberals don’t want to try any of these other things primarily BECAUSE THEY MIGHT WORK and reduce the number of school shootings. You’d think everyone would want fewer school shootings because it would mean fewer dead kids, but it would also mean that liberals would lose a useful tool for pushing the gun control agenda, and that appears to mean more to liberals than the lives of children.

If I’m getting liberals wrong, terrific! No, seriously, that would be great news because I’ve noted several things we could do to reduce the number of mass murderers and school shootings. If liberals were interested in working with conservatives on those issues, we may be able to stop the next Parkland or Columbine and save a lot of lives. The alternative to that is for liberals to keep demanding gun control and to keep accusing law-abiding gun owners of being horrible humans while we continue to tell liberals to shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. Sadly I suspect if most liberals had to choose, they’d take more dead kids over changes that undercut their gun control agenda every time.

Link

^^^^ Truth.