quote:

Originally posted by icom706:
China is a multi faceted threat.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sig209:
lastly - the troops we have there are PROFESSIONALs. we aren't talking about 19 year old draftees there who only joined for the college fund. strategic-level operators doing what they trained years to do - basically - no place they'd rather be plying their chosen profession.

thank you for your service. but it's what you signed up for. we are talking about strategic impact of presidential decisions not the personal ramifications at the soldier level. since the start of the GWOT the optempo for SOF has always been crazy high. that likely will not change anytime soon. everyone who undergoes the training knows that 110% going in. in the end - it's a volunteer job.

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quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by FishOn:

Sorry for the lingo; yes, I was relaying the opinion that we should get the fuck out of there yesterday.

They have been fighting for hundreds of years. I really don't think we have to be in the middle of it - same with Afghanistan and Iraq - team up with the government, leave fliers all over the country saying "We will FUCK YOU UP AGAIN if you support terrorism that makes its way to America" and do drive by bombings whenever we deem it necessary.

But endless bullshit wars where we spend countless lives and money? Fuck that.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:
Retired military here. I wish I could figure out what our “vital interests” are in that cesspool known as the MidEast.

OK, yeah, I get the oil thing, but guess what, we are producing more oil thru cracking and other means than we need and that’s what we are exporting it. OK, yeah the Euros need foreign oil for their economies, but they’ve screwed themselves about this, what between the Russian oil deals and importing all those “refugees” that are nothing more than a Third World Army in mufti.

As Kurt Schliter has said, “But mostly you see it when the President avoids new wars no matter how hard the smart set demands he create his own quagmire. Iran has been ham-handedly trying to provoke a fight by poking our allies. Trump won’t bite. He sees the trap. And in Syria, he is keeping his promise to leave. There’s always a good reason for going into these conflicts (ISIS is bad), and there’s always a good reason to stay (Many Kurds are fine people). But there are better reasons to pack up and leave. The phase “endless war” used to be irritating, except then it became clear that’s exactly what many foreign policy “experts” are advocating. If your exit criteria for closing out some overseas adventure is “We can leave when things are stable” in a place that hasn’t been stable in 5000 years, you are advocating for “endless war.”

“Getting out of wars requires getting out of wars. And sometimes, it’s going to be ugly. But unless you can explain to the family of a dead soldier why it’s worth it to stay, it’s not worth it to stay. The American people, at least those who aren’t in DC or the media, understand that every problem around the world is not our problem. If you’re one of those Citizens of the World, then feel free to enlist in the Army of the World. Just count us out of your bloody altruism.”

https://townhall.com/columnist...erica-first-n2554625

If you or any one else think that what took us 3000 years to develop through the Greeks, Romans, Dark & Middle Ages, Renaissance & Enlightment, not to mention the last 250 years of History, can be handed off to a bunch of Third Worlders after only 25 years, then you are sadly mistaken.

John Quincy Adams said it best, “Whenever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will be America’s heart, her benedictions and her prayers. But she does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the wellwisher to freedom and independence for all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She well knows that by once enlisting other banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extridition, in all wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom….She might become the dictress of the world but would no longer be ruler of her own spirit….Americans should not go abroad to slay dragons they do not understand in the name of spreading democracy.”

“America First”. Yeah, I know, that was the tag line from the 1930s that the Wilsonian interventionists like to drag out to discredit because it led to the 1940s; but it is still valid today. It is way beyond time to GET THE FUCK OUT of that hellhole.

And NATO is an “defensive alliance”; once a NATO member goes on the offense and starts a war, they are on their own. No more “blank check” alliances; that’s how World War 1 (Great War) started in 1914.

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and the talk of 'sucking up our resources'... with a GDP of $19+ TRILLION - what percentage of that is being consumed by involvement in Northern Iraq?

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Originally posted by sourdough44:

....I don’t care for endless wars with murky objectives.....

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Originally posted by Jimbo54:
I've read every post in this thread and it just doesn't answer the question, did Trump make the right decision in pulling our troops out of Syria?
There obviously are arguments supporting either side to the question and they have been intelligently addressed here. That said, I put myself in Trumps shoes. He got all of the arguments from both sides I'm sure and it's landed in his lap. I personally think it took more guts to pull out than to stay and escalate. He now has to reign in Erdogan through sanctions to placate our allies and stop a potential purge of the Kurds. The only way we would go back would be if NATO or the UN got involved and that isn't going to happen. One thing can be said for sure and that is our president is fulfilling his campaign pledges one at a time. When was that ever done before? Certainly not in my lifetime. That is the biggest reason he will win in 2020.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
the difference I see is that Trump pulled the military, and immediately followed up with a sanction threat sufficient to get Turkey's attention.

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
the difference I see is that Trump pulled the military, and immediately followed up with a sanction threat sufficient to get Turkey's attention.

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Originally posted by midwest guy:

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
the difference I see is that Trump pulled the military, and immediately followed up with a sanction threat sufficient to get Turkey's attention.

. As of today the military is staying on a Trump reversal.MG

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:
I've read every post in this thread and it just doesn't answer the question, did Trump make the right decision in pulling our troops out of Syria?
There obviously are arguments supporting either side to the question and they have been intelligently addressed here. That said, I put myself in Trumps shoes. He got all of the arguments from both sides I'm sure and it's landed in his lap. I personally think it took more guts to pull out than to stay and escalate. He now has to reign in Erdogan through sanctions to placate our allies and stop a potential purge of the Kurds. The only way we would go back would be if NATO or the UN got involved and that isn't going to happen. One thing can be said for sure and that is our president is fulfilling his campaign pledges one at a time. When was that ever done before? Certainly not in my lifetime. That is the biggest reason he will win in 2020.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:
How do we even shoot at the Turks? Most of their equipment are Western made so wouldn't IFF systems get in the way?

quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:
How do we even shoot at the Turks? Most of their equipment are Western made so wouldn't IFF systems get in the way?