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Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie:
My 2 happiest days as a boat owner was when I first bought it, and the day I sold it. I will NEVER own any boat ever again! Nothing but a constant money pit and time drain. When you have a boat, everyone is your friend, but no one helps out cleaning, flushing or offers gas money. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but that was my boat experience.....


My one Brother-in-law had a boat like that and also a pontoon and every year he would tell us about how much bucks he had to put into them for the spring and summer season. Over the 18 years he had them I figure at least 25 grand.
 
Posts: 4472 | Registered: November 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Two seams torn on two different seats on an older boat? The vinyl or the thread? My concern would be UV degradation of the thread and those seams are only the beginning.
 
Posts: 10824 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SBrooks, My grandfather did that once on his own ramp that he built. Big Grin He had a old Cherokee with a 3 speed manual and a straight six and I’ll never forget that thing lighting its tires up on the ramp. They ended up hooking a line to a Bronco and both trucks finally got it off the ramp. He had it hung up good.

Hopefully I’ll get a chance to look at a few boats this weekend. One of the Regals is looking VERY promising.

It’s pretty easy to install a wake board tower right? I’m definitely going to add one that folds down and can also hold a sun shade.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
 
Posts: 21075 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Trapper, yes. One of the boats I am considering has two seats with two seams that have ripped/popped. The other boat I’m looking at, which is slightly older, is in better shape and has no rips. It was kept indoors it’s whole life when not on the lake. It’s less expensive too so it’s at the top of my list right now.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
 
Posts: 21075 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I confess not having read the entire thread so, if no one has mentioned it yet, you may want to look into this or something similar before taking the plunge into boat ownership. A friend of mine is very happy with it.

https://freedomboatclub.com/
 
Posts: 6955 | Location: 96753 | Registered: December 15, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It’s pretty easy to install a wake board tower right? I’m definitely going to add one that folds down and can also hold a sun shade.


Yes, it's easy. All you need is $$$.
 
Posts: 10824 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Drill and bolt? I wonder if there is any need to reinforce the fiberglass around the mounts?

This wouldn’t be my first boat. It will be my first inboard/outboard boat. Looks like as much as I’d like to find a dual console with the setup I like the options are super limited.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
 
Posts: 21075 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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By easy and $$$, I meant paying someone who knows how to do it. I should have probably included a Razz in my response.

Watch a couple videos. It doesn't look like it's out of your skill set. Drill, various size bits including 1/2", countersink bit, tape measure, wrenches, and masking tape.

You'll need something to make backer plates to distribute the load where the mounting blocks are installed. One video shows them using an marine adhesive and glueing 1/2" marine grade plywood to the back of the hull. I'd use epoxy, and glass the wood in, but that's probably overkill.
 
Posts: 10824 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by stickman428:
Drill and bolt? I wonder if there is any need to reinforce the fiberglass around the mounts?

This wouldn’t be my first boat. It will be my first inboard/outboard boat. Looks like as much as I’d like to find a dual console with the setup I like the options are super limited.


A wakeboard tower is going to cost some good money, honestly save your money and either buy a wakeboarding boat with one already or just a newer boat as you'll probably use the tower about 5 times, ever. You are going to want to have aluminum backing plates where it is mounted and through-bolt it with 316 S/S fasteners, fender washers and lock nuts and 5200 between the aluminum and fiberglass.

Don't use marine plywood as the tower takes a lot of torque and stress due to it's height and angle of pull. The marine plywood will just compress, sooner or later, use a piece of aluminum plate.
 
Posts: 21335 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by stickman428:
Drill and bolt? I wonder if there is any need to reinforce the fiberglass around the mounts?

You are going to want to have aluminum backing plates where it is mounted and through-bolt it with 316 S/S fasteners, fender washers and lock nuts and 5200 between the aluminum and fiberglass.

I would normally be disinclined to argue with jimmy123x about "marine stuff," but, in this case I think he's not offering optimal guidance.

Any time you have dissimilar metals in contact with one another your run the risk of galvanic corrosion. This is especially true in marine applications, where the materials are more likely to be exposed to more moisture, more often, and for longer periods than in most non-marine applications.

Thus I would not use aluminum for backing plates. I would use stainless steel.

Regardless of what you do, since the hull at the attachment points was not designed with those stresses in mind, there's probably a than even chance you'll eventually end up with stress cracks in the gelcoat.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just get a Monster Tower kit if available and don't worry about it. It should have everything needed.
 
Posts: 17871 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by stickman428:
Drill and bolt? I wonder if there is any need to reinforce the fiberglass around the mounts?

You are going to want to have aluminum backing plates where it is mounted and through-bolt it with 316 S/S fasteners, fender washers and lock nuts and 5200 between the aluminum and fiberglass.

I would normally be disinclined to argue with jimmy123x about "marine stuff," but, in this case I think he's not offering optimal guidance.

Any time you have dissimilar metals in contact with one another your run the risk of galvanic corrosion. This is especially true in marine applications, where the materials are more likely to be exposed to more moisture, more often, and for longer periods than in most non-marine applications.

Thus I would not use aluminum for backing plates. I would use stainless steel.

Regardless of what you do, since the hull at the attachment points was not designed with those stresses in mind, there's probably a than even chance you'll eventually end up with stress cracks in the gelcoat.



Every tower that I know of is made of Aluminum and so are the backing plates. My last boat was made in 99 with a factory tower and there were not signs of corrosion when I sold it three years ago. (not sure sure exactly what the bolts were, but they were not aluminum)


Go with a tower from Monster Tower. They make a good and good looking product. The tower is a good thing for wakeboarding, but its even better for getting those boards, skis, ropes, etc off the floor of the boat. Also a tower mounted Bimini is great (get one that doesn't require straps)


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Posts: 727 | Location: Raleigh, NC | Registered: May 15, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by KDR:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Thus I would not use aluminum for backing plates. I would use stainless steel.

Every tower that I know of is made of Aluminum and so are the backing plates. My last boat was made in 99 with a factory tower and there were not signs of corrosion when I sold it three years ago.

Perhaps I'm just being overly anal about it, but, in the short time we owned a sailboat I read far too many stories of people using the wrong materials for the job and ending-up with disastrous results.

We had a stanchion base literally bend, and a bolt start pulling through the deck, due to snow and ice load on the cover, one winter. (Ironically, I finally got the winter cover design right the winter before we sold the boat.) Had a local stainless steel place bend it back into shape and re-plate it. Also had him fabricate stainless steel backing plates for the undersides of the bases I could "reasonably" access.

Those bases weren't aluminum, however. I memory serves they were nickle-plated bronze?

So perhaps it doesn't matter in this case. Still: I avoid dissimilar metal contact whenever I reasonably can, just as a matter of practice.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26009 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by KDR:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Thus I would not use aluminum for backing plates. I would use stainless steel.

Every tower that I know of is made of Aluminum and so are the backing plates. My last boat was made in 99 with a factory tower and there were not signs of corrosion when I sold it three years ago.

Perhaps I'm just being overly anal about it, but, in the short time we owned a sailboat I read far too many stories of people using the wrong materials for the job and ending-up with disastrous results.

We had a stanchion base literally bend, and a bolt start pulling through the deck, due to snow and ice load on the cover, one winter. (Ironically, I finally got the winter cover design right the winter before we sold the boat.) Had a local stainless steel place bend it back into shape and re-plate it. Also had him fabricate stainless steel backing plates for the undersides of the bases I could "reasonably" access.

Those bases weren't aluminum, however. I memory serves they were nickle-plated bronze?

So perhaps it doesn't matter in this case. Still: I avoid dissimilar metal contact whenever I reasonably can, just as a matter of practice.


It can matter, but likely not in this instance.

Things that contribute to it are:
Boat is in the water full time
Connected to shore power
Lack of anodes
Salt is worse than fresh water
Some running gear is designed in a way that creates the problem, such as a Bravo 3 drive with counter-rotating stainless props mounted in an aluminum housing.



I would not be concerned with anything more than maintaining anodes on a towed boat with a stainless prop.
 
Posts: 17871 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by KDR:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Thus I would not use aluminum for backing plates. I would use stainless steel.

Every tower that I know of is made of Aluminum and so are the backing plates. My last boat was made in 99 with a factory tower and there were not signs of corrosion when I sold it three years ago.

Perhaps I'm just being overly anal about it, but, in the short time we owned a sailboat I read far too many stories of people using the wrong materials for the job and ending-up with disastrous results.

We had a stanchion base literally bend, and a bolt start pulling through the deck, due to snow and ice load on the cover, one winter. (Ironically, I finally got the winter cover design right the winter before we sold the boat.) Had a local stainless steel place bend it back into shape and re-plate it. Also had him fabricate stainless steel backing plates for the undersides of the bases I could "reasonably" access.

Those bases weren't aluminum, however. I memory serves they were nickle-plated bronze?

So perhaps it doesn't matter in this case. Still: I avoid dissimilar metal contact whenever I reasonably can, just as a matter of practice.


I've been around bay and offshore saltwater fishing boats my entire life.

Every up-in-the-air structure I've ever seen on a saltwater fishing boat, from little T-tops on 18' bay boats to tuna towers with second helm stations 20' above the deck on 60' sportfishing boats, is made out of welded aluminum tubing, is bolted to the boat with stainless steel bolts, and anything bolted to the structure is bolted with stainless steel bolts.

Galvanic corrosion between two items made out of different metals doesn't just happen for no reason. The two items have to be connected electrically and connected through seawater. If the stuff isn't under water, galvanic corrosion isn't a big issue.

Stuff will get splashed or sprayed, sure, but in practice with corrosion-resistant materials like aluminum and stainless steel it just isn't much of an issue.

Where people have issues is with through-hull fittings, through-hull fasteners, and the running gear (props and rudders), or sometimes stuff that sits in the bilge if they have a wet bilge. Specifically, they have problems with galvanic corrosion when they either don't have sacrificial anodes or when everything isn't electrically connected inside the boat to the sacrificial anodes. (Sacrificial anodes only protect things they are electrically connected to - if you have a sacrificial anode protecting your prop and rudder, but it isn't electrically connected to that bronze plumbing through-hull that's bolted with stainless bolts, the through-hull isn't protected.
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: CA | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by stickman428:
Drill and bolt? I wonder if there is any need to reinforce the fiberglass around the mounts?

You are going to want to have aluminum backing plates where it is mounted and through-bolt it with 316 S/S fasteners, fender washers and lock nuts and 5200 between the aluminum and fiberglass.

I would normally be disinclined to argue with jimmy123x about "marine stuff," but, in this case I think he's not offering optimal guidance.

Any time you have dissimilar metals in contact with one another your run the risk of galvanic corrosion. This is especially true in marine applications, where the materials are more likely to be exposed to more moisture, more often, and for longer periods than in most non-marine applications.

Thus I would not use aluminum for backing plates. I would use stainless steel.

Regardless of what you do, since the hull at the attachment points was not designed with those stresses in mind, there's probably a than even chance you'll eventually end up with stress cracks in the gelcoat.



Most towers, hard tops, and various items will not be made out of S/S due to cost and weight (same structure is about twice as heavy as aluminum and at least double the expense if not triple)

This is how it is done throughout the marine industry when mounting any aluminum structure to a fiberglass boat/yacht from 50' high aluminum tuna towers to fighting chairs and so forth. Since aluminum fasteners don't exist you use stainless screws or bolts to mount aluminum items to a fiberglass boat/yacht. The tower is going to be aluminum, most of the mounting plates are drilled countersunk for a machine screw to go through it, has 5200 (caulking) between screw head and aluminum, as well as aluminum tower base plate and deck (can't weld aluminum to a stainless base plate), and aluminum plate underneath 5200 between underside of deck and aluminum and then fender washer and lock nut. The S/S is not threaded into the aluminum, the aluminum holes are drilled 1 size larger than the S/S machine screw so they don't freeze together. Corrosion between the 2 dissimilar metals is extremely minimal. The only way to get around this is a S/S tower (super expensive and heavy), S/S fasteners and S/S backing plate. But 99.8% of the time the tower or structure will be fabricated out of aluminum.


Even on all Aluminum yachts (hull and superstructure), anything that can be welded will. But you will still have lots of items mounted with S/S screws (bolts) as it's the only fasteners you can use. In that situation many times the screws will try to weld themselves to the aluminum over time if they're threaded to the aluminum. We use a product called Tef-Gel that you put on the screw threads to prevent that and it helps most of the time.

Note- you can not have aluminum and stainless together in a submerged situation or one where water runs through them (aluminum piping with a s/s fitting etc.) as then you'll get serious galvanic corrosion and the one metal will eat the other metal very very rapidly.

For any real Galvanic corrosion it has to either have water running through it (plumbing of some sort) or be on the hull exposed to the water (under the waterline)

I'm working at a large yacht manufacturers annual event tomorrow and will try to take some pictures of Aluminum Tuna towers and how they're mounted and the backing plates (If I can access those to take a picture) if I remember. We're talking about $60-150k Tuna Towers and hard tops depending on which boat, they're obviously not going to skimp on mounting it.

- A backing plate is cheap insurance and I would highly advise one. They help prevent stress cracking and distribute the load better and are cheap. Most marine welding/fabrication shops have small pieces of aluminum plate laying around that they'll either give you or sell you for next to nothing.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jimmy123x,
 
Posts: 21335 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I added a Monster Tower to my Mastercraft Prostar 190 last year. I got it on sale for about $700. It is a *must* have for reasons already mentioned, especially for getting the boards out of the boat.

Monster is just down the road from Mastercraft in Maryville, TN. They pretty much got their start making towers for MC, but now they make towers for everything. When I did the install, they specifically stated that most boats do not require a backing plate, with the exception of some really inexpensive (cheap) boats. Yes, their instructions did call out Bayliner by saying a backing plate is advisable on that brand. Smile

Bottom line, you shouldn’t need to worry too much about a backing plate unless you purchase a crappy boat. I’ve put 250 hours on mine pulling wakeboarders this year, and there are zero problems with the tower mounts and the gel coat. MC does have a thick fiberglass hull.

Warning: NEVER pull tubes from your tower or tournament pole. That can really mess stuff up if the tube submarines. Tubes should always be connected to the stern mount.

My boat. Nearly 30 years old, still going strong.



Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
 
Posts: 8202 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What are yalls thoughts on Mercruiser V8 Inboard/outboard verses Volvo Penta?


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The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
 
Posts: 21075 | Location: San Dimas CA, the Old Dominion or the Tar Heel State…flip a coin  | Registered: April 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by stickman428:
What are yalls thoughts on Mercruiser V8 Inboard/outboard verses Volvo Penta?


I'd prefer a 4 stroke outboard. But that being said, I'd favor Mercruiser over Volvo. Both utilize a chevy engine. Mercruiser parts are easier to come by and cheaper, mechanics are used to seeing mercruiser, and the mercruiser outdrives are usually bulletproof for trailer boats. Mercruiser leads the stern drive market by a long shot.
 
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