quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
I've heard owning a Bayliner as being like getting a BJ from an ugly woman. Feels pretty good until your friends see you with her/it.

When I bought my 1984 Correct Craft Ski Nautique that is going on its 34th season of use and appears to have another 30 years left in it, I joked I could have bought 2 Thundrcraft boats for the same money. My conclusion was that I sure got a great deal on my CC since it is worth the price of at least 3 Thundercraft boats.

That is the exact boat I coveted when I was a teenager on the slalom scene. I was in my ratty K Craft, and a stranger offered to give me a pull behind a Ski Nautique. This was about 1986, and it was my first experience behind a tournament boat. I later ended up with a Prostar just by chance. IMO, Mastercraft and Correct Craft are the king of the mountain when talking tournament boats.

I’m turning 50 this year, and last week I was up on my slalom behind the Prostar. While getting some great cuts over that flat wake, I was reminded of what a pleasure the Prostar and Nautique class boats are to ski behind. And fast, boy was that flat wake fast! We’re a dying breed. Kids only want to surf nowadays because slalom is too much work.

Great boat. Your 1984 is now a classic.

Slalom isn't too much work, it's just too repetitive. My first time on a wakeboard was Sep of 92. I literally did not touch my HO Comp SL slalom ski until five years later when I sold it. Having said that, there is a course on my lake and I've been tempted several times to borrow a ski and give it a go, but my Malibu VLX is a bit wide and the wake a little too harsh for the course.

Those 2001 Nautiques are awesome boats. Properly weighted, they throw a great wake for wakeboarding too. I spent many hours on one back in college.

I'll also take this time to re-iterate my recommendation to the OP... TAKE A BOATER SAFETY COURSE!

Well I wasted two and a half hours today but now I know the Bayliner is not for me. I loved the size and layout but this particular boat had apparently run into something and had deep gashes exposing fiberglass in many places on the hull. Yikes!

It was a blessing in disguise as it now is helping my wife realize a good, solid boat is going to cost much more than that bayliner. I did get a bit of movement on price but there were too many red flags.

I’m looking at late 90’s and (preferably) 2000’s bowriders. I found a few Cobalt, Chaparral and Sea Rays that look interesting. I’m thinking if I look for a while I should be able to find a clean, well taken care of 22-24ft bowrider for about $15k.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Well I wasted two and a half hours today but now I know the Bayliner is not for me. I loved the size and layout but this particular boat had apparently run into something and had deep gashes exposing fiberglass in many places on the hull. Yikes!

It was a blessing in disguise as it now is helping my wife realize a good, solid boat is going to cost much more than that bayliner. I did get a bit of movement on price but there were too many red flags.

I’m looking at late 90’s and (preferably) 2000’s bowriders. I found a few Cobalt, Chaparral and Sea Rays that look interesting. I’m thinking if I look for a while I should be able to find a clean, well taken care of 22-24ft bowrider for about $15k.

It would be worth your time to find a well known/trusted local dealer and look at some new boats with a warranty. Of course a new boat will cost you more up front, but having to spend lots of time and money fixing a used boat with unknown problems can really kill the boating experience for you and your family. If you don't decide to go new that's ok, but seeing what new boats cost will also help provide perspective for what a nice used boat should cost.

My dad went the used boat route when I was a kid and we had all of the usual used boat problems. My wife and I spent time on friends boats for years and when I bought my own ~7 years ago I went new with a warranty and haven't regretted it for one minute. I'm too busy with work/family/other hobbies to be spending my limited time trying to fix something up just to have another issue when I actually get it to the water. My time isn't free and I'd rather spend that time enjoying the boat on the water with friends/family instead. A broken boat will ruin an entire vacation that you may have been planning for months. Also don't forget that used boats come on used trailers that are also prone to breaking down on the side of the road when hundreds of miles away from home.

Of course new boats can still have problems, but they are much lower probability and you have a dealer who handles it all for you with a warranty. Just my 2 cents...

^^^^^^Have you priced new boats? People complain here about new truck prices, but new boat prices would make their heads spin! Stick says his budget is $15k.

@Stick - you didn't waste 2.5 hours. You got an education and saved yourself a ton of time, money, and headaches. I'd look for a boat in Michigan. They have a 2 month boating season, seriously. They hardly get used and they're freshwater.

I don’t know about used boats elsewhere, but in my area there are some great deals out there. Many people buy a boat, use it for a summer or two, then lose interest. Then it just sits in storage for a decade until it gets sold for pennies on the dollar.

For example, I can buy a low-hours Mastercraft X2 in the early 2000’s for not much more than $20,000 in my area. A comparable new X22 is $108,000. After all the taxes and such, you’re close to $118,000 out the door. $95,000 buys a lot of fix-ups on an older boat. Besides, your higher end boats are so much better built, particularly with regard to the interior, that they age much more gracefully than an el cheapo Glastron or Bayliner. Of course, if you just gotta have digital ballast controls and all that fancy stuff, then new is the ticket. Me, I like analog gauges. They’re somehow comforting.

Also, high end boats tend to be better cared for than your family boats. It’s much more likely that a Four Winns will be rotting in someone’s backyard than an Air Nautique.

As someone else mentioned, Bayliner is essentially the Highpoint of boats. Most of them work just fine for light recreational use, but you get what you pay for. I've known 20 or so people with all manner of inexpensive Bayliners and I think 3 had issues, and one of those was a beat to shit used one my friend scored for $2000 with the trailer. He's about $5000 into it now and it's been fine for he and his family for several years now.

I've been in and around fishing and skiing and cruising boats my entire life, from Bayliner to MasterCraft to Pontoon boats and everything in between. Bragging rights and style points aside, almost all of the inexpensive ones have worked as well as the fancy ones, especially for just screwing around, pulling tubes, etc.

Personally, I won't screw with any Inboard/Outboard that's not a simple 350 for which there are zillions of parts and for which zillions of people can work on them.

Most any fiberglass hull can be easily repaired by most anyone, same goes for electrical and upholstery and such. Motors are where the trouble is, and some are expensive as hell and not something most would want to mess with on their own.

We’re looking at Regal & Cobalt now. The wife is warming up to the idea of spending more upfront to worry less in the long run.

I’m really liking the hull on the 19-22ft Regal boats that I’m finding locally.

I don't recall a lot about it but my grandfather had a nice Cobalt, 23' maybe. 454 V8, would cruise at WOT at about 50-55 on smooth water.
Our local lake gets pretty choppy, and the Cobalt beat you up a bit, especially in comparison to my mom's cousin's tri-toon.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
We’re looking at Regal & Cobalt now. The wife is warming up to the idea of spending more upfront to worry less in the long run.

I’m really liking the hull on the 19-22ft Regal boats that I’m finding locally.

Personally I would try to find a boat with a 4 stroke outboard on it. Cobalt is a better build quality than Regal. Regal isn't bad, but I'd put Cobalt and Searay a step ahead. I'd also take a good look at some of the pontoon and deck boats as they've become really popular lately. There are also a lot of center consoles with really nice seating much like a bowrider....a friend of mine has a 2001 20' Sea Hunt that has loads of seating.

There's also a lot of misconception on here on having a boat cored with synthetic coring and that you never have issues with it. Just about every boat builder, good/bad/great, used wood coring for the transoms and floors up until maybe 15 years ago. Done properly it will last 30-40 years, and quite honestly putting a new wood floor (or synthetic) and glassing it in isn't a huge ordeal. Costly and labor intensive but done all of the time on older, name brand boats. There are boats with wood cored floors and transoms that are 30-40 years old without issues, provided all of the screws were bedded properly with 5200, etc. It still boils down to buying a boat from a good builder. Everyone can laugh at Bayliner, but aside from a soggy floor on some as they aged, you never saw the hulls break apart.


I have fixed PLENTY of synthetic cored decks and structural issues on synthetic cored boats that delaminated too. Plenty of them. They're a little more hardy with water intrusion, but it will delaminate them just the same given enough time. I've also seen a lot of delamination issues from coring gassing off, or the builder not getting a good bond between the glass and the core. This latter issue put a huge SF builder (of 40 years) Bertram, out of business. I personally know of 13, 57-63' Bertrams that came apart within the first 2 years!!!!, either the glass totally delaminating in a huge section of the coring, or all of the bulkhead tabbing/fiberglass breaking free from the stringers, to one 2000 HP diesel that ripped itself right off of the stringers and laying in the bilge. We're talking boats built from 2003-2009 and coming in at $2 million- $5 million dollars. Another company bought the Bertram name and started a new company and re-invented the brand. But I've had to have entire synthetic cored decks cut out, re-cored and re-fiberglassed on other yacht brands such as Azimut, Wellcraft, mako and others.


For a good laugh, here are some photos. These issues are all from Bertram putting too much hardener in the fiberglass resin so it cured very quickly so they could lay up the hulls fast. In return, the resin didn't have enough time to adhere the fiberglass to the coring. There are several other builders that have had some similar issues with synthetic cored boats.

photobucket.com/gallery/user/jbilok/media/bWVkaWFJZDo2OTgzNTA0Mg==/?ref=

www.yachtsurvey.com/bertram_63-2.JPG

https://www.thehulltruth.com/a...c=1&d=1387743987

This one is the best, guy had a 57' that delaminated, they gave him a new 63' and on the first trip the entire hull side was falling off, so they gave him a new 70' that he immediately sold.
https://www.yachtforums.com/at...nts/bert1-jpg.28371/

Here's one that totally disintegrated and sunk on it's delivery

https://www.yachtforums.com/at...rtaftdeck-jpg.35153/

and another, there were many more that Bertram swept under the rug and fixed or destroyed giving the owners new boats, before word got out.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bertram_63-3.JPG

I bought a Chaparral 200SSE in 2006. Buy once cry once.

Ive used it for fishing offshore out of San Diego bay, towing kids around lakes in Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and now for crabbing and shrimping in Puget Sound as well as enjoying the lakes in Washington state.

Never a single problem. Just took it out to lake Whatcom last monday.

It has a 400hp 383 V8 and a Volvo Penta SX sterndrive.

Flush the saltwater after any sea use, Change the engine and sterndrive oil every season and drain the manifolds and engine block every winter. Inspect everything before you go out.

A Chaparral, Searay, Cobalt or Reinell will give you excellent service.

Correct. If it flies, f_cks, or floats - rent it.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Rent don’t own. No matter how much it costs, it’s cheaper than owning.
There are all sorts of hidden costs to own a boat that new owners overlook.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
^^^^^^Have you priced new boats? People complain here about new truck prices, but new boat prices would make their heads spin! Stick says his budget is $15k.

A $15k budget for a new boat is that laughable.

We're currently cleaning up our 1994 Mariah 182 Barchetta to ready her for sale. If somebody offers us the right price this fall we'll sacrifice to get her out of the driveway before the snow flies, but, come spring that boat will be listed for $7k. That's what a 26 year old quality boat in excellent condition will bring.

I don't even want to think of what an 18' Mariah-level boat would cost, new, today. (The current Mariahs are actually made by Sea Fox Boats Inc. and are entry-level boats, as opposed to higher-end boats, as the original Mariahs are.)

So, two more names to look at, if you're looking at used boats: Mariah (1990-2002) and Stingray. Three names if you wish to consider older Glastrons, which were were very well-built. But I couldn't tell you what years.

As for bow-riders not being fit for skiing and wakeboarding, well, our little boat has a 4.3L MerCruiser V6 with a Quadrajet. Rated at 205HP, if memory serves. I can go from no-wake to planed in a heartbeat with a full complement of passengers, so I'm fairly confident that boat would have no trouble with skiers or wakeboarders

quote:

Originally posted by Ironmike57:
Correct. If it flies, f_cks, or floats - rent it.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Rent don’t own. No matter how much it costs, it’s cheaper than owning.
There are all sorts of hidden costs to own a boat that new owners overlook.

Other than being a silly expression that was clever once about 50 years ago, it is worthless. Unless, of course, one really doesn't see the value in owning something nice and regularly visits prostitutes to avoid marriage. I've been a boat owner for 30 years and am unaware of "hidden" costs.

neighbor has a for sale sign on his 28 ft, 1998
inboard speed boat.

$30,000.00
holler if you want pics and details .

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
I've been a boat owner for 30 years and am unaware of "hidden" costs.

That may be because, as a boat owner of 30 years, you know the ropes. A newbie, or even somebody that has just a few years of boat-owning experience (or being owned by a boat experience--boats are kinda like cats in this respect) has yet to discover it all.

Like for example outdrive bellows'. I will be inspecting those on our boat, before sale, so as not to unintentionally screw somebody. And, even if they appear to be fine, I will caution any prospective buyer they were on the boat when we acquired her five years ago, and they may soon be due for a change.

How many new I/O boat owners are even aware bellows exist? Never mind the tilt sensor? Never mind the water-in-the-oil check.

The list is endless, and this is a fairly simple boat. For a sailboat I could go on much, much longer.

Sept - October is a pretty good time to be in the market for a boat right?

I found two Regals that I like as well as a super sweet 23ft Cobalt. I’m waiting to hear from my delightful HOA. I think worst case scenario I could still probably stash up to a 24ft boat behind my house. (I’ve been looking closely at the HOA rules)

Just wondering Stickman, do you know anyone in the state Marine Patrol? If you can get them to talk to you they are a pretty good source of information about boats

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
^^^^^^Have you priced new boats? People complain here about new truck prices, but new boat prices would make their heads spin! Stick says his budget is $15k.

A $15k budget for a new boat is that laughable.

In case it wasn't clear, the ^^^^ means I'm referring to the post above mine where it was suggested Stick look at new boats. I'm not suggesting he look at new boats at all. 15k is possible for a decent used boat meeting his criteria.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Sept - October is a pretty good time to be in the market for a boat right?

I found two Regals that I like as well as a super sweet 23ft Cobalt. I’m waiting to hear from my delightful HOA. I think worst case scenario I could still probably stash up to a 24ft boat behind my house. (I’ve been looking closely at the HOA rules)

Don't jump on a boat just because you have to have one. Wait for the right boat and the right deal to come along. With boats, the right deal always comes along sooner or later, as it and a Harley are the first thing to go when someone really needs money.

I'd highly recommend just renting a boat right now for $300 a day in the size range you're looking at 1/2 a dozen times till the end of the summer. It will really give you an idea of what features to look for in a boat, how you will use it, and what you don't want in a boat, or even if you use it enough to justify owning your own. Winter time a deal will come up.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
^^^^^^Have you priced new boats? People complain here about new truck prices, but new boat prices would make their heads spin! Stick says his budget is $15k.

A $15k budget for a new boat is that laughable.

In case it wasn't clear, the ^^^^ means I'm referring to the post above mine where it was suggested Stick look at new boats. I'm not suggesting he look at new boats at all. 15k is possible for a decent used boat meeting his criteria.

Yes, I know what ^^^^^ means. I was agreeing with you.