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Alabama abortion ban: Nation’s strictest abortion bill passes; no rape, incest exceptions Login/Join 
Legalize the Constitution
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
So is Alabama also going to ban men getting an operation to shoot blanks? Unless they do this they are hypocrites.

Wait!...


What?!?


__________________________________________________________
When you’re happy, you enjoy the music.

When you’re sad, you understand the lyrics.
- George Jones
 
Posts: 8844 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Report This Post
Chip away the stone
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jaaron11:
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
So is Alabama also going to ban men getting an operation to shoot blanks? Unless they do this they are hypocrites.
Nonsense. If I remember 8th grade biology correctly, it takes both sperm and egg to make a person.


A fetus, even an embryo, has is own unique human DNA, and if left to natural progression, will develop into a person. That being said, I don't consider an embryo a person, and I don't consider a "fetus" at 28 weeks gestation simply a clump of cells or a parasite on the woman. It's a person, or very close to that.
 
Posts: 11343 | Registered: August 22, 2008Report This Post
At Jacob's Well
Picture of jaaron11
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by rusbro:
quote:
Originally posted by jaaron11:
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
So is Alabama also going to ban men getting an operation to shoot blanks? Unless they do this they are hypocrites.
Nonsense. If I remember 8th grade biology correctly, it takes both sperm and egg to make a person.


A fetus, even an embryo, has is own unique human DNA, and if left to natural progression, will develop into a person. That being said, I don't consider an embryo a person, and I don't consider a "fetus" at 28 weeks gestation simply a clump of cells or a parasite on the woman. It's a person, or very close to that.
Prefontaine wasn't speaking of a fetus. He was speaking of sperm.


J


"But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed." - Isaiah 53:5
 
Posts: 5090 | Location: Missouri | Registered: May 08, 2009Report This Post
Thank you
Very little
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Interesting map of worldwide laws on Abortion.

Link



nternational status of abortion law. In some cases, this map may not accurately depict the content of this article.

Blue = Legal on request

Green = Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, physical health, rape, fetal defects, and/or socioeconomic factors

Yellow = Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, physical health, rape and/or fetal defects

Brown = Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, physical health and/or rape

Orange = Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health and/or physical health

Red = Restricted to cases of maternal life

Black = Illegal with no exceptions

Grey = No information



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13604 | Location: FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Report This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
quote:
Originally posted by Fed161:
I'm pro-life. But I am wondering. Your 16 year old daughter or granddaughter gets raped by a schizophrenic bipolar mental patient with an IQ of 65. A pregnancy results. Anybody here thinks it's a good idea to have a law that says the girl can't get an abortion, and anybody who assists her goes to prison? Just wondering.
I'm with you. When the woman has done nothing wrong and isn't using an abortion like it's birth control I have no problem terminating the pregnancy. In this case you would also know exactly when it happened and could handle the situation before there is a heartbeat or any pain for the fetus.

These ridiculous late term abortions is what made the pendulum swing the other way.

From your side of the argument it sure looks like an easy solution. The other side still considers it murder so it’s not cut and dry. And for your info, I have discussed this very scenario with my wife and daughter and they both would choose to have the child and raise it. If the woman has done nothing wrong then what has the fetus done to deserve death? Any way you look at it it’s something done for convenience.
 
Posts: 2782 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Report This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
So is Alabama also going to ban men getting an operation to shoot blanks? Unless they do this they are hypocrites.


Every sperm is sacred . . .



As they always do, this thread proves that it is virtually impossible to debate the abortion question itself, as the two views are inimical to one another. They are virtually irreconcilable.

I don't know why you even try.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 47986 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mrvmax:
quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
I'm pro-life. But I am wondering. Your 16 year old daughter or granddaughter gets raped by a schizophrenic bipolar mental patient with an IQ of 65. A pregnancy results. Anybody here thinks it's a good idea to have a law that says the girl can't get an abortion, and anybody who assists her goes to prison? Just wondering.
I'm with you. When the woman has done nothing wrong and isn't using an abortion like it's birth control I have no problem terminating the pregnancy. In this case you would also know exactly when it happened and could handle the situation before there is a heartbeat or any pain for the fetus.

These ridiculous late term abortions is what made the pendulum swing the other way.


There is also another issue. Yes the hypothetical 16 yr old girl could put the child up for adoption. But having a baby isn't like having a headache. Once the pregnancy is over and the baby is adopted out, the issue doesn't just go away. There is the issue of affects of the pregnancy on her body, her relationships with her friends and classmates, the possible delay in her future plans, the psychological toll the pregnancy would take, and other issues I am not even considering. That's a lot to ask of a 16 yr old girl who is an innocent victim. No thanks.
 
Posts: 195 | Location: New Jersey  | Registered: May 03, 2019Report This Post
Chip away the stone
Picture of rusbro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jaaron11:
quote:
Originally posted by rusbro:
quote:
Originally posted by jaaron11:
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
So is Alabama also going to ban men getting an operation to shoot blanks? Unless they do this they are hypocrites.
Nonsense. If I remember 8th grade biology correctly, it takes both sperm and egg to make a person.


A fetus, even an embryo, has is own unique human DNA, and if left to natural progression, will develop into a person. That being said, I don't consider an embryo a person, and I don't consider a "fetus" at 28 weeks gestation simply a clump of cells or a parasite on the woman. It's a person, or very close to that.
Prefontaine wasn't speaking of a fetus. He was speaking of sperm.


Yes, I know. I was attempting to illustrate the difference. Granted, I could have been more clear about it.
 
Posts: 11343 | Registered: August 22, 2008Report This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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quote:
Originally posted by Fed161:
That's a lot to ask of a 16 yr old girl who is an innocent victim.


She's not the only one.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 22375 | Location: Ski Town, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Report This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I'd like to send the extremists on both sides of this issue some place hot and fiery.

So you would weigh the level of "extremism" between the recent New York abortion bill that would effectively allow post-birth abortion with that of the Alabama abortion bill that essentially puts the life of the unborn above all else seeks to outlaw abortion entirely.

Yes.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
The dominant media is no more "mainstream" than leftists are liberals.
 
Posts: 15979 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Report This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
Picture of mrvmax
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by Fed161:
That's a lot to ask of a 16 yr old girl who is an innocent victim.


She's not the only one.

I’m glad someone else recognizes that.
 
Posts: 2782 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I'd like to send the extremists on both sides of this issue some place hot and fiery.

So you would weigh the level of "extremism" between the recent New York abortion bill that would effectively allow post-birth abortion with that of the Alabama abortion bill that essentially puts the life of the unborn above all else seeks to outlaw abortion entirely.

Yes.
I second the motion.

You can't outlaw abortion any more than you can outlaw guns.

People will go underground and try it themselves.

You are damn right if a daughter of mine was raped she'd be getting the morning after pill or an abortion. Period, dot.

Don't like it? Well you can fuck the hell off, with whipped cream and a cherry on top. Wink
 
Posts: 42820 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
Info Guru
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Alabama's patriarchal governor signed the bill, so the court cases should start soon, if they haven't already.



Watch all the arguments about how men shouldn't decide these issues.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 28064 | Location: VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fed161:
quote:
Originally posted by mrvmax:
quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
I'm pro-life. But I am wondering. Your 16 year old daughter or granddaughter gets raped by a schizophrenic bipolar mental patient with an IQ of 65. A pregnancy results. Anybody here thinks it's a good idea to have a law that says the girl can't get an abortion, and anybody who assists her goes to prison? Just wondering.
I'm with you. When the woman has done nothing wrong and isn't using an abortion like it's birth control I have no problem terminating the pregnancy. In this case you would also know exactly when it happened and could handle the situation before there is a heartbeat or any pain for the fetus.

These ridiculous late term abortions is what made the pendulum swing the other way.


There is also another issue. Yes the hypothetical 16 yr old girl could put the child up for adoption. But having a baby isn't like having a headache. Once the pregnancy is over and the baby is adopted out, the issue doesn't just go away. There is the issue of affects of the pregnancy on her body, her relationships with her friends and classmates, the possible delay in her future plans, the psychological toll the pregnancy would take, and other issues I am not even considering. That's a lot to ask of a 16 yr old girl who is an innocent victim. No thanks.


Totally agree.
 
Posts: 1314 | Registered: January 25, 2013Report This Post
Now in Florida
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I've always considered myself pro-choice, although more of a Clintonian "safe, rare and legal" type. As I get older, though, I find myself drifting closer to the pro-life position.

I'm not religious, and I don't believe that abortion should be completely banned, but I would be fine with bans after a certain reasonable period of time. Whether that time is when a heartbeat is detected or some other measure, I certainly don't see any reason to allow abortion after the first trimester unless to save the life of the mother. At that point, I think it is clear that the baby is a person.

I think the liberals screwed themselves by turning abortion into one of their defining issues. By being so extreme as to demand and legislate that abortions could be had with no restrictions up to and even after birth, they forced the hands of pro-lifers to go extreme in the other direction. If the liberals are not willing to compromise on something reasonable, then it will be an either/or choice. It will be absolutely legal in all cases or absolutely illegal in all cases (on a state by state basis). If that becomes the choice, then I don't think they will like the outcome in most states outside of the coasts.

Ultimately, this will go to the Supreme Court, where it will take 4 votes to hear the case. If it does get heard, I don't know where Roberts will come down. He seems most interested in protecting the reputation of the court (which has so far meant not pissing off liberals on big cases), so will he really be the one to overrule Roe v. Wade? I don't know if he has any prior opinions on the issue that would give some guidance, but in their absence, I would have trouble believing he would have the courage to become the ultimate demon to the left.
 
Posts: 5388 | Location: FL | Registered: March 09, 2009Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
I've always considered myself pro-choice, although more of a Clintonian "safe, rare and legal" type. As I get older, though, I find myself drifting closer to the pro-life position.

I'm not religious, and I don't believe that abortion should be completely banned, but I would be fine with bans after a certain reasonable period of time. Whether that time is when a heartbeat is detected or some other measure, I certainly don't see any reason to allow abortion after the first trimester unless to save the life of the mother. At that point, I think it is clear that the baby is a person.

I think the liberals screwed themselves by turning abortion into one of their defining issues. By being so extreme as to demand and legislate that abortions could be had with no restrictions up to and even after birth, they forced the hands of pro-lifers to go extreme in the other direction. If the liberals are not willing to compromise on something reasonable, then it will be an either/or choice. It will be absolutely legal in all cases or absolutely illegal in all cases (on a state by state basis). If that becomes the choice, then I don't think they will like the outcome in most states outside of the coasts.

Ultimately, this will go to the Supreme Court, where it will take 4 votes to hear the case. If it does get heard, I don't know where Roberts will come down. He seems most interested in protecting the reputation of the court (which has so far meant not pissing off liberals on big cases), so will he really be the one to overrule Roe v. Wade? I don't know if he has any prior opinions on the issue that would give some guidance, but in their absence, I would have trouble believing he would have the courage to become the ultimate demon to the left.
I completely agree with your position on the issue. And I think you're also right on target that Roberts is far too cowardly to do the job he holds as a SCOTUS judge when it comes to insuring bad jurisprudence (ROE) is dealt with appropriately. Instead, he'll slither away and hide under another blanket statement about not politicizing the court, when he knows what he's opting to do is exactly the opposite.

But ultimately, my bet is that the Alabama law is challenged and found unconstitutional in a district court, then appealed and upheld in an appellate court, and finally appealed to the SCOTUS who will refuse to hear it. That will be the end of this law for the folks in Alabama, as well as the further end of their constitutional rights under the tenth amendment.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 28457 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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I really don't think SCOTUS will overturn Roe v Wade. I know the radical Pro-Lifers dream about it, but it's never going to happen (aside from being completely unreasonable - but just as unreasonable as the Left's abortion at any time).

Not sure where all of this will head, but it will be interesting to watch all the extremists come out of the woodwork, thumping their chests, painting their bodies in warpaint, and howling at the Moon like this is the end all, be all thing we should be wasting our time with in the 21st Century.

Maybe it will have the un-intended effect of pushing the whole country back toward the center - or more likely it will push us all further apart.
 
Posts: 42820 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
Info Guru
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quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Ultimately, this will go to the Supreme Court, where it will take 4 votes to hear the case. If it does get heard, I don't know where Roberts will come down.
I completely agree with your position on the issue. And I think you're also right on target that Roberts is far too cowardly to do the job he holds as a SCOTUS judge when it comes to insuring bad jurisprudence (ROE) is dealt with appropriately.


I think you guys are making a big mistake thinking it would only come down to Roberts. Given Kavanaugh's voting record this term, he is looking every bit the institutionalist that Roberts is. I mentioned earlier in this thread, the split on the court is now 4-3-2. Four solid liberals who vote pretty much in lock-step, 3 solid 'conservatives' or constitutionalists and 2 institutionalists who are more interested in the reputation of the court than in any legal theories.

We do agree with the idea that this was a bad strategy thinking this law will be upheld and Roe overturned.

Ben Shapiro just tweeted this:


It's not just the SCOTUS angle that makes this a bad idea either. It will now be the focus of the 2020 elections - not the economy, not any of the other great accomplishments of the past several years.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 28064 | Location: VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fed161:
I'm pro-life. But I am wondering. Your 16 year old daughter or granddaughter gets raped by a schizophrenic bipolar mental patient with an IQ of 65. A pregnancy results. Anybody here thinks it's a good idea to have a law that says the girl can't get an abortion, and anybody who assists her goes to prison? Just wondering.


So kill 1,000,000 babies a year for the your hypothetcal case. Must be a lot of psyhcotic rapists out there. The argument the pro death cult always resorts to is "rape and incest" which accounts for less than 1%.
It all breaks down to don't do it if you can't deal with the responsibility.
 
Posts: 640 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: August 16, 2009Report This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
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Ben Shapiro is right.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16503 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Report This Post
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