SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Alabama abortion ban: Nation’s strictest abortion bill passes; no rape, incest exceptions
Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD

Closed Topic Closed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Alabama abortion ban: Nation’s strictest abortion bill passes; no rape, incest exceptions Login/Join 
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted
Man, this is going to be interesting to watch.


https://www.al.com/news/de8b00...a-abortion-bill.html

Alabama abortion ban: Nation’s strictest abortion bill passes; no rape, incest exceptions

Updated: May 15, 2019, 12:32 AM; Posted: May 14, 2019, 10:20 AM

By Jeremy Gray | Leada Gore | James Cason | Kenneth Faulk

FEATURED UPDATES

After several hours of contentious debate, the Alabama Senate on Tuesday night voted 25-6 to pass what many say will be the strictest abortion ban in the nation. The bill makes abortion a felony in Alabama. A similar measure already passed the Republican-controlled House but controversy erupted last week in the Senate after an attempt to add amendments that would allow exceptions for victims of rape or incest. Another attempt to add rape and incest exceptions on Tuesday also failed and led to a filibuster attempt. Proponents of the measure pushed for a “clean bill” without amendments in order to clear the way to a legal fight in the U.S. Supreme Court and a review of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that legalized abortion. The bill now goes to Gov. Kay Ivey, who will decide whether to sign it into law. Complete coverage of the abortion debate can be found here: https://topics.al.com/tag/abortion/index.html Jeremy Gray


12:32am
From Mike Cason: The bill passed exactly as it was introduced by Rep. Terri Collins, R-Decatur, about six weeks ago. It includes only one exception -- to allow abortions in cases of a serious health risk to the woman. The goal is to trigger a legal challenge to Roe v. Wade.
 
Posts: 17497 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Report This Post
Truth Wins
Picture of Micropterus
posted Hide Post
Good.
 
Posts: 2806 | Location: Southeast Virginia | Registered: January 03, 2010Report This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
Alabama Senate is 27-8 (R-D). They were able to get two democrats on this.

This is fantastic news, and thank God we now have a (mostly) conservative SCOTUS. It will be a great day in the history of this nation when this holocaust ends.


________________________________________________________

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 16067 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I'm personally opposed to abortion but itsnnot my place to tell other people what they should be doing with their lives. I would like to end the sanitization of it and have people acknowledge what it is, ending a human's life. If the mom can accept that and live with it, then that's on her.

I wish we would have shot our SCOTUS load on a gun case before abortion.

Also, I would expect Roberts to side with the libs on this.
 
Posts: 2899 | Registered: January 27, 2008Report This Post
Leave the gun.
Take the cannoli.
posted Hide Post
If men could get pregnant abortions would be available everywhere and anywhere; the gym, repair shops, VFW posts, gun clubs, etc. We would not let anyone tell us what we can or cannot do.
 
Posts: 6169 | Location: New England | Registered: January 06, 2003Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
If men could get pregnant abortions would be available everywhere and anywhere; the gym, repair shops, VFW posts, gun clubs, etc. We would not let anyone tell us what we can or cannot do.


If only men could get pregnant humans would’ve gone extinct long ago.


———————————————-
Those who can, do. Those who can’t, manage.
 
Posts: 714 | Location: North And East Of The Big Chicken | Registered: November 18, 2017Report This Post
Drug Dealer
Picture of Jim Shugart
posted Hide Post
^ ^ ^ ^ Jesus, that'd be a tight squeeze. Eek

(C-section? Why, yes. Please!)



When a thing is funny, search it carefully for a hidden truth. - George Bernard Shaw
 
Posts: 14043 | Location: Virginia | Registered: July 03, 2007Report This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
This demonstrates what happens when the Supreme Court legislates from the bench, taking tough social issues away from the States and the people through their elected representatives.

Abortion is a tough issue. The 1973 Roe v. Wade decision didn't "solve" the issue. We've been fighting it ever since.

I'm personally pro-life but I see abortion (like many things) as a State's rights issue. Even though I'm pro-life I'm able to accept that the law in California or New York doesn't have to be the same as the law in Alabama or Missouri.

Our system of Federalism was designed to leave most of these issues to the States.

The doctrine of enumerated powers was crucial to the ratification debate. The Federalist Papers were written to convince skeptical electors and the delegates they sent to state ratifying conventions that the new constitution was necessary and, in particular, would not give the new federal government any more power than was absolutely necessary to carry out its responsibilities. The doctrine of enumerated powers—the main restraint on the new government—was most famously stated by James Madison (Federalist No. 45):


The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.


Notice those words: “few and defined.” The federal government was to have only limited responsibilities. Most power was to be left with the state governments. They were closer to the people who could then better control them.

http://rootsofliberty.org/the-...are-few-and-defined/


"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16024 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Report This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
Picture of mrvmax
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
If men could get pregnant abortions would be available everywhere and anywhere; the gym, repair shops, VFW posts, gun clubs, etc. We would not let anyone tell us what we can or cannot do.

It’s been the same problem all along, some think it’s murder and some don’t. You’re idea would not change the basis behind it.
 
Posts: 2680 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of arcwelder76
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
If men could get pregnant abortions would be available everywhere and anywhere; the gym, repair shops, VFW posts, gun clubs, etc. We would not let anyone tell us what we can or cannot do.


If only men could get pregnant humans would’ve gone extinct long ago.


If it were men who gave birth, yes I do think that birth control and abortion would be viewed differently. I don't know about abortion being available "everywhere," but I do think this moral debate about abortion and the rights of women(men in this context) would be very different. This is all assuming the societal structures remain the same.

As far as humans going extinct if men gave birth instead of women, what is the logic there? If a species has evolved to reproduce a given way, it would continue to do so.

An outright ban on abortion makes as much sense as an outright ban on firearms. It does nothing to actually reduce abortion or help people. Those seeking abortions will travel, or use improvised means.

Sex education and contraception are the actually effective means of reducing abortions. But again, just like the gun control debate, the idea that there is a zero sum, or that this is a simple moral issue, ignores the human condition and doesn't better it. It goes beyond what government should do in peoples lives and with their rights.

If people want to ban abortion, they need to be willing to fund with tax dollars the social support programs for the unwanted children. Particularly if they also oppose contraception and sex education.


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 25725 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Report This Post
If you see me running
try to keep up
Picture of mrvmax
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by arcwelder76:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
If men could get pregnant abortions would be available everywhere and anywhere; the gym, repair shops, VFW posts, gun clubs, etc. We would not let anyone tell us what we can or cannot do.


If only men could get pregnant humans would’ve gone extinct long ago.


If it were men who gave birth, yes I do think that birth control and abortion would be viewed differently. I don't know about abortion being available "everywhere," but I do think this moral debate about abortion and the rights of women(men in this context) would be very different. This is all assuming the societal structures remain the same.

As far as humans going extinct if men gave birth instead of women, what is the logic there? If a species has evolved to reproduce a given way, it would continue to do so.

An outright ban on abortion makes as much sense as an outright ban on firearms. It does nothing to actually reduce abortion or help people. Those seeking abortions will travel, or use improvised means.

Sex education and contraception are the actually effective means of reducing abortions. But again, just like the gun control debate, the idea that there is a zero sum, or that this is a simple moral issue, ignores the human condition and doesn't better it. It goes beyond what government should do in peoples lives and with their rights.

If people want to ban abortion, they need to be willing to fund with tax dollars the social support programs for the unwanted children. Particularly if they also oppose contraception and sex education.

Actually it does make sense and will help, everyone wanting an abortion after they are banned won’t have the means to travel or do what it takes to get around it. Your idea of punishing the rest of society for the ones that keep kicking out babies but not supporting them makes little sense. It’s just like punishing the law abiding gun owners. How about punishing the ones that keep having babies they don’t want to support? There are already enough people that would adopt babies from incest and rape. Our tax dollars already go to planned parenthood (and the Democratic Party) and we support WIC and food stamps so taxpayer support already exists.
 
Posts: 2680 | Location: Friendswood Texas | Registered: August 24, 2007Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of arcwelder76
posted Hide Post
quote:
Actually it does make sense and will help, everyone wanting an abortion after they are banned won’t have the means to travel or do what it takes to get around it. Your idea of punishing the rest of society for the ones that keep kicking out babies but not supporting them makes little sense. It’s just like punishing the law abiding gun owners. How about punishing the ones that keep having babies they don’t want to support? There are already enough people that would adopt babies from incest and rape. Our tax dollars already go to planned parenthood (and the Democratic Party) and we support WIC and food stamps so taxpayer support already exists.


If the estimates of abortions performed are true, this is a lot more than a few extra kids, and it will have a cost, that will be borne by taxpayers. If you think welfare is bad now, best have an idea for raising lots more unwanted kids.

As an aside, just to fuck with the Hard Left, I made a slogan for them:

"Black lives matter, black babies aren't people so they don't."


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 25725 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Report This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
posted Hide Post
quote:
If the estimates of abortions performed are true, this is a lot more than a few extra kids, and it will have a cost, that will be borne by taxpayers. If you think welfare is bad now, best have an idea for raising lots more unwanted kids.

Actually, the abortion rate is now below where it was in 1973.



Still, there are a lot of abortions. The keys to further reducing it are education, assistance , and adoption. There are great charities that perform all of these functions.


"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 16024 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of arcwelder76
posted Hide Post
I would say the keys to lowering abortion rates are indeed education, assistance, and adoption. Add to that sex education and contraception for maximum effect.

Numbers on abortion do seem to vary by source, as one might expect. Reliable data is key, just like the gun control debate.

Unless my math is wrong, the graph would say we're at about 5 million abortions a year. Considering that abortion is murder, I'm curious why an annual rate of gun deaths including suicide of some 32,000 is such a problem.

For a real discussion with someone who is pro choice, they need to admit that abortion is murder. I'm frankly comfortable with the idea that someone can murder their unborn child if they want to. Before it can survive outside the womb, and with the understanding that it's murder. If you're OK with a woman's right to murder her unborn, shut your mouth on "gun control."


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 25725 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Most people are really conflicted about abortion. If you look at polls, most people oppose third trimester abortion, oppose partial birth abortion, and oppose sex selection abortion (which strangely feminists don't object to). However, most people also are OK with abortion in cases of rape and incest. And they will reluctantly say that if their 14 year old daughter does something stupid and gets pregnant by her 15 year old boyfriend, they want the option of a first trimester abortion. It's only the extremes at both ends of this issue that get everyone agitated. Alabama bans almost every abortion, including in cases of rape and incest. New York passes a law that allows abortion any time and any way right up until birth, with no measures to save the live birth. Most people don't agree with either law.
 
Posts: 37 | Location: New Jersey  | Registered: May 03, 2019Report This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
posted Hide Post
Proud.

End this holocaust.


0:01
 
Posts: 3299 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Report This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
If men could get pregnant abortions would be available everywhere and anywhere; the gym, repair shops, VFW posts, gun clubs, etc. We would not let anyone tell us what we can or cannot do.


I'd call bull on that, but it's a silly point to make regardless. It wouldn't change what abortion is, which is the killing of another human being in order to solve a problem. It is murder for the sake of convenience. Normally it isn't accepted to kill someone because he or she is a problem for us.



quote:
Originally posted by arcwelder76:

I'm frankly comfortable with the idea that someone can murder their unborn child if they want to. Before it can survive outside the womb, and with the understanding that it's murder.


Of course I know what you mean by "survive outside the womb," but the fact of the matter is that no baby can survive outside of the womb without his or her mother (or father or some caregiver).


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
Family, Guns, Country

"My guns are always loaded."
~R.G. Justified

What whiskey will not cure, there is no cure.
 
Posts: 21883 | Location: Ski Town, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Report This Post
Move Up or
Move Over
posted Hide Post
As others have said, State's rights issue. Get all the federal money out of it, and let the states decide. If you don't like the decision, move.

If you are going to stay, focus your time and energy on education, not legislation.

With so many American's adopting abroad just to get a kid, I have to believe that we could take care of the issue internally
 
Posts: 4546 | Location: middle Tennessee | Registered: October 28, 2008Report This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
posted Hide Post
I'm only addressing this from a political perspective.

Terrible move to give the democrats something to run on and something to rally around.

They've been running in circles with no direction, unable to lay a glove on Trump and nothing to run on with the economy running at a record pace.

This will galvanize the left and every race will be a referendum on abortion now - every debate, every time a candidate gets in front of a microphone the question will be where do they stand on abortion.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 27933 | Location: VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of arcwelder76
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Of course I know what you mean by "survive outside the womb," but the fact of the matter is that no baby can survive outside of the womb without his or her mother (or father or some caregiver).


Surviving outside the womb has an obvious meaning. Does anyone really needed it pointed out that without food and shelter someone dies? No. It means that once removed from a womb, a baby needs just food and shelter, and no extreme medical care to survive. Obviously loving parents who supply guidance about how to person would be ideal.


Arc.
______________________________

"Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash

"I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman

Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM

"You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP

 
Posts: 25725 | Location: Love that dirty water, oh | Registered: June 09, 2004Report This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7  

Closed Topic Closed

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Alabama abortion ban: Nation’s strictest abortion bill passes; no rape, incest exceptions

© SIGforum 2019