quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:

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Originally posted by 1967Goat:

I really don't understand why so many on this board are so against girls joining Scouts.

Unless I missed it, you will note that every critic posting in this thread is not currently a Scout or Scouter, and every poster that is currently involved with BSA is (mostly) supportive of including girls.

I am a scout leader and I am against it.

So why the hell do we have the girl scouts?

I was in scouting. There is no benefit to having girls in the scouts other than to sustain a dying organization. First gays, now girls... who knows what's next.

All PC, progressive bullshit.

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Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:
Yep, and that is why, at the Troop level, they are segregated by gender. In Cub Scouts, each unit has the choice to either have a separate Pack for girls, or separate Dens for girls.

That's what I don't get...If they are going to be separate, why not just start an affiliated group for girls (since the Girl Scouts didn't want to merge)? The GSA name was taken, but I'm sure they could have come up with another name for an affiliated girls group.

But then you have the overhead of a completely separate and parallel organization.

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Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

I really don't understand why so many on this board are so against girls joining Scouts.

Unless I missed it, you will note that every critic posting in this thread is not currently a Scout or Scouter, and every poster that is currently involved with BSA is (mostly) supportive of including girls.

I am a scout leader and I am against it.

I stand corrected and edited my post.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
I really don't understand why so many on this board are so against girls joining Scouts.

I don't think they are against girls joining scouts--they are against girls joining BOY scouts. That's what the GIRL scouts are for. There are valid reasons for keeping teenage children of the 2 sexes separate in their activities, as many here have indicated.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:
But then you have the overhead of a completely separate and parallel organization.

If they are going to be separate you have that anyway, don't you? You would have an umbrella organization, say Scouts of America, and you have Boy Scout troops and Female Scout troops. They all share the same programs from the umbrella organization, while maintaining the separate groups.

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Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by DrDan:
But then you have the overhead of a completely separate and parallel organization.

If they are going to be separate you have that anyway, don't you? You would have an umbrella organization, say Scouts of America, and you have Boy Scout troops and Female Scout troops. They all share the same programs from the umbrella organization, while maintaining the separate groups.

The question is how far down the org chart things are the same. At the Troop level, yes the overhead is the same. But, at the District and Council levels, they are different. There is also the funding and maintenance of the camps and other facilities, which are significant. The Camps are owned at the Council level, generally, not the national level. So, by having co-ed Scouts BSA, the only added overhead is the volunteer leadership for the female Troop. But, I think most agree that we will need that regardless of how the upper tiers of the organization are setup. The chartering organizations probably do not have any additional overhead, unless they want to provide facilities for both the male and female Troops to meet simultaneously, but that is their decision and not a necessity.

FWIW, I really hate to see the name change. Boy Scouts is a universal and solid brand and carries a lot more meaning, IMHO, that just Scouts, or Scouts BSA. In practice, I will bet the male Scouts will continue to call them selves "Boy Scouts," regardless of what the national organization calls itself.

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Originally posted by flashguy:

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
I really don't understand why so many on this board are so against girls joining Scouts.

I don't think they are against girls joining scouts--they are against girls joining BOY scouts. That's what the GIRL scouts are for. There are valid reasons for keeping teenage children of the 2 sexes separate in their activities, as many here have indicated.

flashguy

That is my opinion. Wanting Boy Scouts to be BOY Scouts isn't about denying girls of anything.

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Originally posted by Pale Horse:


That is my opinion. Wanting Boy Scouts to be BOY Scouts isn't about denying girls of anything.

So, as a Scout leader, what is going to change about the all-male Troop's when they start having all-female Troops? Is your fear that the program is going to change? Or that down the road mixed-gender Troops will be forced upon us?

Boy Scouts helps forms the leaders of tomorrow. I don't care if they are male or female, gay or straight.

If you can't deal with that change, then move to another organization.

Eagle Scout. That is the issue, it is still considered an accomplishment by some* and there is no "girl equivalent". And that is what the girls want.

It was only a matter of time, and the argument to keep girls out were the same made to keep woman from being pilots, joining The Explorers Club, being in the military in general, voting.....

(*)there are still those the "earn" their Eagle Scout badge, but, even when I was a scout, there were those that got their dad's involved and seemed to be "fast tracked" to Eagle.

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Originally posted by DrDan:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:


That is my opinion. Wanting Boy Scouts to be BOY Scouts isn't about denying girls of anything.

So, as a Scout leader, what is going to change about the all-male Troop's when they start having all-female Troops? Is your fear that the program is going to change? Or that down the road mixed-gender Troops will be forced upon us?

Both.

I think that it is only a matter of time before they start to integrate troops. I think that there are going to be problems finding leadership, sponsorship and membership for all-female troops. This will lead to the troops that do exist either being very small with members and leaders that don't stay around too long and/or troops being far apart. Girls will start complaining that it is too difficult to find a good quality all-female troop within reasonable distances and they will start pointing to the all-male troop that meets at the church just down the street and ask why they can't join that.

Not allowing girls into the Boy Scouts is one thing but allowing them in and not providing them with high quality leadership and opportunities is much worse from a PR standpoint. It is only a matter of time before we see mixed gender troops. And in order for girls to get the same out of Boy Scouts as boys do I think they will have to integrate them. All-female troop simply won't be able to exist on their own.

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Originally posted by ulsterman:
Boy Scouts helps forms the leaders of tomorrow. I don't care if they are male or female, gay or straight.

If you can't deal with that change, then move to another organization.

What other organization?

What are you going to tell me? To create my own? That is exactly what those of us who don't like the idea of girls being in the Boy Scouts have been telling girls all along. There is an organization for girls. It is called the Girl Scouts. It sucks. I know because I am a volunteer there too. But it exists and instead of making the Boy Scouts weaker they should have focused on making the Girl Scouts stronger.

The BOY Scouts should be for BOYS. If you can't deal with that then move to another organization. Or, you know, fix the one you already have.

If girls truly are every bit as capable as boys then they should be able to create a quality scouting program.

I was going to sign my 6yo up once he turned 7, depending on how the local org runs this I may not.

Boys need a place.to be boys....away from female types

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:
Boy Scouts helps forms the leaders of tomorrow. I don't care if they are male or female, gay or straight.

If you can't deal with that change, then move to another organization.

What other organization?

What are you going to tell me? To create my own? That is exactly what those of us who don't like the idea of girls being in the Boy Scouts have been telling girls all along. There is an organization for girls. It is called the Girl Scouts. It sucks. I know because I am a volunteer there too. But it exists and instead of making the Boy Scouts weaker they should have focused on making the Girl Scouts stronger.

The BOY Scouts should be for BOYS. If you can't deal with that then move to another organization. Or, you know, fix the one you already have.

If girls truly are every bit as capable as boys then they should be able to create a quality scouting program.

Totally agree with Pale Horse on this.

Are boys going to be allowed to join Girl Scouts?

It's the coveted Eagle Scout accomplishment they want that is missing from GSA.
They have the Gold Award but it's not as recognized as the Eagle which companies look at on a resume.

Once girls are introduced into a boy environment, it changes. Boys reflexively behave differently around girls the same way people behave differently when they know a camera is recording them. I was a Boy Scout. I did achieve the Eagle rank, but I can tell you right here and now, if girls had been present, I would not have done anything but pursue their attention. There are conversations we had around the camp fire in the middle of the Sierra Madres and High Uintas, three days hike from anywhere, that we would not have ever had with girls present. There were unforgettable evenings where as boys becoming men we admitted our weaknesses, bore our souls and even cried in inspiration. those things would never have happened with a female present. Never.

There is a time and a place for everything under heaven. There's a time for boy/girl interaction and cooperation. There is also a time for boys to be around boys and girls around girls. IME, the Girl Scouts puked up blood because they allowed political correctness to infuse the doctrine of Girl Scouting. It then became of less value to those who cared about personal edification. So interest has been lost.

I expect the Boy Scouts are over regardless of what they call it. Boys becoming men will find another way. It may not be a better way, but they'll find a way to hang together. If it is not edifying and organized, it will be destructive as we've seen happen in certain locations. I wonder when the whole thing collapses, will someone take responsibility? I doubt it.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:
Boy Scouts helps forms the leaders of tomorrow. I don't care if they are male or female, gay or straight.

If you can't deal with that change, then move to another organization.

What other organization?

What are you going to tell me? To create my own? That is exactly what those of us who don't like the idea of girls being in the Boy Scouts have been telling girls all along. There is an organization for girls. It is called the Girl Scouts. It sucks. I know because I am a volunteer there too. But it exists and instead of making the Boy Scouts weaker they should have focused on making the Girl Scouts stronger.

The BOY Scouts should be for BOYS. If you can't deal with that then move to another organization. Or, you know, fix the one you already have.

If girls truly are every bit as capable as boys then they should be able to create a quality scouting program.

Well said.
As a former scout and young adult leader, there's a reason for the BOY Scouts and GIRL Scouts. Like all youth organizations, it's quality is dependent on the parental leadership/guidance. If mothers/girls are envious of what the Boy Scouts have going on, then go ahead and incorporate those aspects into the Girl Scouts. It has nothing to do with preserving an 'old boys club' but, more with youth development without the distractions of sexuality and the inherent complications they present.

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Originally posted by arfmel:
Are boys going to be allowed to join Girl Scouts?

Yes, when cookie sales suffer due to lack of girls.

Everything in GSUSA revolves around the almighty cookie.