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posting without pants
Picture of KevinCW
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If the Boy Scouts wanted to "win" they would announce tomorrow they have changed their names to "The Scouts" and embrace this/

They would have about 0.001 percent of girls show up, and it would be a non issue...

But folks aren't that smart...





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 31854 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bendable
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they need to call them kids with out parents that give half a shit.

the help from parents in these org's is 65% ,
here in tiny town , the surrounding big cities
generally 25% - 40%.





Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.



Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
 
Posts: 44989 | Location: Henry County , Il | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
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quote:
Originally posted by was0311:
This is about money and enrollment.

Forget all your forlorn memories of scouts.


It is a business now, and they want cash, add eligibility to 51% of the population is their strategy to get more.


What is your evidence of this? Actual evidence, not just conspiracy theorizing. BSA is not rolling in dough.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 44454 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of bigmule
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This Screams money grab...

Damaged Rep and poor membership numbers explains a lot.

My girls are still MORE interested in GIRL scouts.


Back from burning bridges, made lots of friends.
 
Posts: 2028 | Location: The commonwealth of the saftey pin..  | Registered: July 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of myrottiety
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I'm kinda meh on it. I get the tradition & it being "boy scouts".

But some chicks wanna go camping, make a fire, shoot a gun, Get a archery badge and fish. I say let each troop decide and as long as it's not being done to prove a point. Some sort of social justice warrior non-sense agenda pushed by a parent. Meh...

*This opinion is provided by a Eagle Scout of 1997. First Eagle in my troop.*




Train how you intend to Fight

Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat.
 
Posts: 7280 | Location: Alpharetta, GA | Registered: August 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of was0311
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by was0311:
This is about money and enrollment.

Forget all your forlorn memories of scouts.


It is a business now, and they want cash, add eligibility to 51% of the population is their strategy to get more.


What is your evidence of this? Actual evidence, not just conspiracy theorizing. BSA is not rolling in dough.


Never said they are rolling in dough, they want, and likely need more.

BSA membership has been declining for years, even prior to the policy changes for membership and leadership.

Now for my anecdotal evidence. Having reengaged scouting 5 years ago as parent I have noticed a few things. Many of the packs I knew as a scout have dwindled or dissolved altogether. This goes for Troops as well. As a pack chair working with a great Cubmaster we were able to grow a small pack of 18 to an enrollment of 42 but retention is problem. Out of 12 tigers we may end up with 4 Webelos, 2 of which may continue to Boy Scouts. Probably the biggest competitor for scouts is sports, particular out of school club type sports. This is common across our district.

BSA as organization is great at supporting us with enrollment and fundraising. The payback is little with activities and programs. There is a big push with the Lions program to get boys engaged earlier, it seems to have success getting kids signed up but the drop off continues.
 
Posts: 2555 | Location: Eastern NE | Registered: July 12, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of DrDan
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quote:
Originally posted by was0311:

Now for my anecdotal evidence. Having reengaged scouting 5 years ago as parent I have noticed a few things. Many of the packs I knew as a scout have dwindled or dissolved altogether. This goes for Troops as well. As a pack chair working with a great Cubmaster we were able to grow a small pack of 18 to an enrollment of 42 but retention is problem. Out of 12 tigers we may end up with 4 Webelos, 2 of which may continue to Boy Scouts. Probably the biggest competitor for scouts is sports, particular out of school club type sports. This is common across our district.


I am curious, with your recent experience, have you been having issues with families splitting between Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts? One of the stated motivations for the change, which is accurately reflected in our local Council, is the difficulty for families that have both sons and daughters to be engaged together as a family. Cubs welcome complete family participation, even in camping, but the girls cannot earn ranks. We have a large pack with over 100 boys, and as the younger sisters come of age to be in scouting, the re-direction is difficult, and we find good, active leaders that would stay, leaving to support their daughters in Girl Scouts. I think, at the Cub level, this move is a no-brainer. The gender separate dens will accommodate the different rate at which boys and girls develop, and allow entire families to choose Cub Scouts as the activity for them. FWIW, I understand anecdotally, that fathers are not allowed to stay in the same physical camp ground as the girls in Girl Scouts. The anecdote comes from a Pack campout at a location that also had a GS unit, and the fathers from the GS unit camped in our campsite, as they were not allowed in the GS site with their daughters. Doesn't sound very family friendly, to me.

My concern is at the Boy Scout level. There needs to be a place for boys to be boys, and learn to grow to be men. All of the goals of BS can apply equally well to girls, and I applaud girls that are interested in those things. But, in the awkward puberty years, and at times when boys "hate" girls, I do not see any benefit, and a number of potential downsides, to mixed units. That being said, BSA has not yet said what inclusion of girls in BS will look like. Perhaps it will be a non-issue, but I really do not know. My greater concern is the potential for pussification of the program as some SJW parent pushes a daughter into the BS, and then raise a stink when it is "too hard," or "too masculine."

Apparently the BSA approached the GS about merging programs, but the GS told BSA to eff-off. While the GS have a much better fund-raising program than BSA, their apparent anti-male attitude will prevent entire families with both boys and girls from choosing the GS over BS. In many ways, given the 40-year old mixed-gender Venturing program, allowing girls into the BS is a bridge between the already family-friendly Cub program and Venturing. The key will be in the details, as always. As you must know, Scouting is international, and the US is the only boy-only program on the planet. That is not a justification to make the change, but we do have many examples across the globe to see how mixed-gender Scout programs are working.




This space intentionally left blank.
 
Posts: 4338 | Location: Florida | Registered: August 16, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
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I find it interesting that so many are so vehemently against ANY type of legislation that even however remotely might be construed to go against the 2A because it is clearly nothing more than the camel's nose under the tent flap, turn right around and see no problem with this progressive nose under the tent flap of our American culture.

Make no mistake, this is a YUGE win for the cultural marxists across this country who have been working at this for years.

But yeah, "simmer down", this isn't a big deal. Roll Eyes

Wrong! It is a very big deal. Each of these drops is forming an ocean and many are too blind to see it.


________________________________________________________

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13476 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of TigerDore
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New Mascot

 
Posts: 4591 | Registered: September 26, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of was0311
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
I find it interesting that so many are so vehemently against ANY type of legislation that even however remotely might be construed to go against the 2A because it is clearly nothing more than the camel's nose under the tent flap, turn right around and see no problem with this progressive nose under the tent flap of our American culture.

Make no mistake, this is a YUGE win for the cultural marxists across this country who have been working at this for years.

But yeah, "simmer down", this isn't a big deal. Roll Eyes

Wrong! It is a very big deal. Each of these drops is forming an ocean and many are too blind to see it.



Whatever. If you are relying on the BSA to win that battle you already lost.
 
Posts: 2555 | Location: Eastern NE | Registered: July 12, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
THE SIGGUY
Picture of SIGGUY (THE 1ST)
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I was a Boy Scout. I achieved Life Scout. If a girl wanted to do Scouting she joined a group called Girl Scouts. Holy Shit! I want some Boys to join Girl Scouts and see how tbat goes...


-------------------------------------------------------2/28/2015 ~ Rest in peace Dad. Lt Commander E.G.E. USN Love you.
 
Posts: 4646 | Location: Great State of NH | Registered: January 29, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I left the Boy Scouts with one citizenship badge and project to be completed for Eagle! I started driving, and girls! Looking back and having my own children now, I wished I would have stuck it out.

I have three children, both boys in their twenties, and 16 y/o daughter. She puts her brothers to shame when it comes to hunting, fishing, and shooting! But, still is a "girly girl". The Girl Scouts need to step it up a notch for some of these girls!


Sigs P-220, P-226 9mm, & P-230SL (CCW)
 
Posts: 2285 | Location: Icebox of the Nation | Registered: January 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sound and Fury
Picture of Dallas239
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quote:
Originally posted by DrDan:
quote:
Originally posted by was0311:

Now for my anecdotal evidence. Having reengaged scouting 5 years ago as parent I have noticed a few things. Many of the packs I knew as a scout have dwindled or dissolved altogether. This goes for Troops as well. As a pack chair working with a great Cubmaster we were able to grow a small pack of 18 to an enrollment of 42 but retention is problem. Out of 12 tigers we may end up with 4 Webelos, 2 of which may continue to Boy Scouts. Probably the biggest competitor for scouts is sports, particular out of school club type sports. This is common across our district.


I am curious, with your recent experience, have you been having issues with families splitting between Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts? One of the stated motivations for the change, which is accurately reflected in our local Council, is the difficulty for families that have both sons and daughters to be engaged together as a family. Cubs welcome complete family participation, even in camping, but the girls cannot earn ranks. We have a large pack with over 100 boys, and as the younger sisters come of age to be in scouting, the re-direction is difficult, and we find good, active leaders that would stay, leaving to support their daughters in Girl Scouts. I think, at the Cub level, this move is a no-brainer. The gender separate dens will accommodate the different rate at which boys and girls develop, and allow entire families to choose Cub Scouts as the activity for them. FWIW, I understand anecdotally, that fathers are not allowed to stay in the same physical camp ground as the girls in Girl Scouts. The anecdote comes from a Pack campout at a location that also had a GS unit, and the fathers from the GS unit camped in our campsite, as they were not allowed in the GS site with their daughters. Doesn't sound very family friendly, to me.

My concern is at the Boy Scout level. There needs to be a place for boys to be boys, and learn to grow to be men. All of the goals of BS can apply equally well to girls, and I applaud girls that are interested in those things. But, in the awkward puberty years, and at times when boys "hate" girls, I do not see any benefit, and a number of potential downsides, to mixed units. That being said, BSA has not yet said what inclusion of girls in BS will look like. Perhaps it will be a non-issue, but I really do not know. My greater concern is the potential for pussification of the program as some SJW parent pushes a daughter into the BS, and then raise a stink when it is "too hard," or "too masculine."

Apparently the BSA approached the GS about merging programs, but the GS told BSA to eff-off. While the GS have a much better fund-raising program than BSA, their apparent anti-male attitude will prevent entire families with both boys and girls from choosing the GS over BS. In many ways, given the 40-year old mixed-gender Venturing program, allowing girls into the BS is a bridge between the already family-friendly Cub program and Venturing. The key will be in the details, as always. As you must know, Scouting is international, and the US is the only boy-only program on the planet. That is not a justification to make the change, but we do have many examples across the globe to see how mixed-gender Scout programs are working.
I'm a Pack Committee Chair, and I agree with just about all of this. Kids and parents are pulled in all directions nowadays. Way more than I was. And Scouts is a HUGE time commitment to really do it. And it is even more difficult for parents when only 1/n of their kid can participate. How does a single parent go on a campout if he has a daughter at home? Or even a Tiger den meeting where the parent must stay the whole time? I do believe those types of considerations are the big driver for this. I just hope the pros wind up outweighing the cons.




"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989

Si vis pacem para bellum
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Feeding Trolls Since 1995
 
Posts: 17703 | Registered: February 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
Picture of a1abdj
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The issue of having girls in the "Boy Scouts" aside, many of you are suggesting that our daughters should just become Girl Scouts.

Some of you may not be aware of how far left the Girl Scouts have gone and that it would never be an option for some of us. My daughter (who's still too young at this point) will NEVER be a Girl Scout. They are Trump hating, socialist loving activists.

The cookies are the only good thing they have going for them, and to be honest, I won't buy them any more.

Let me give you an example. Just a quick one that I pulled off of their facebook page:



________________________



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Posts: 12299 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
The cookies are the only good thing they have going for them, and to be honest, I won't buy them any more.


I will still buy cookies, they are hard to resist. My girls were in Brownies for awhile. They thought it waste of time. BSA has done well with summer camp for kids who are socially inept.
 
Posts: 2514 | Location: MS GULF COAST | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Objectively Reasonable
Picture of DennisM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rightwire:
I am an Eagle Scout, and I am disturbed by this decision.


Likewise. I note that BSA conducted "polls" and "surveys" of parents whose children WERE NOT involved in Scouting, but somehow forgot to poll those who WERE. Or Scouts, or it seems, many (any?) current Scouters.

My own "break" from BSA came years ago, over policy changes made-- admittedly, by National-- not because they believed the changes were the right ones, but that it had simply become too expensive and difficult to defend their position. In other words, a Scout is Brave... except when it's expensive or inconvenient.

Sorry, I can't do that.

This change (made only to boost enrollment, meaning "Money for National programs and the salaries of paid Executives") just reaffirms that decision.

Some years back, I made a "side trip" when in-country to visit this grave:

Robert Baden-Powell

When/if I next have the opportunity, I will stop by again... and apologize.
 
Posts: 1255 | Registered: January 01, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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