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On the DL
Picture of V-Tail
posted
I confess that I do not understand what's going on.

Headlines this morning are saying "Trump To Declare Jerusalem Capital Of Israel."

Huh? How can our president declare the capital of any country?

I thought that Tel Aviv was the capital of Israel.

Can somebody explain what's going on?



A mind is a terrible thing.
 
Posts: 16504 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
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It's a long story...This article hits the high points:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news...oversy-quicktake-q-a

What’s the capital of Israel? Israelis say it’s Jerusalem, and indeed the prime minister’s office is there, as well as the parliament, the highest court and most government ministries. No other country, however, recognizes Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem. It’s considered disputed territory, subject to negotiation with the Palestinians. All the embassies in Israel are in Tel Aviv, 70 kilometers to the west. Israelis perked up when U.S. President Donald Trump vowed to relocate the American embassy to Jerusalem, a move that would lend legitimacy to their claim to the city. Trump backed down from the promise in June, signing a waiver that kept the embassy in Tel Aviv for six months, but that provision has just expired. The White House promised an announcement in coming days.

1. What’s so special about Jerusalem?

It’s sacred to followers of the three major monotheistic religions. It is home to the Temple Mount, the holiest site in the world for Jews, who come from around the world to pray at the Western Wall, the last remaining supporting wall of the biblical temple. Muslims revere the same plateau as the Noble Sanctuary, where the Al-Aqsa mosque stands as the third-holiest place in Islam, after Mecca and Medina. Not far away in Jerusalem’s Old City is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which Christians revere as the site of Jesus’s tomb. When the United Nations voted in 1947 to divide British-ruled Palestine into separate Arab and Jewish states, it didn’t want either side controlling Jerusalem, due to its religious resonance. Instead, it set aside the city as an international zone to be administered by a UN council of trustees.

2. So why does Israel control it?

Arab states rejected the UN partition plan for Palestine and launched a war against the fledgling Jewish state. The war left Israel in control of west Jerusalem, where the bulk of the Jewish population lived, and Jordan in control of the mostly Arab eastern side, containing the holiest sites. In 1967, Israel captured east Jerusalem in the Six-Day War and formally annexed those portions of the city to form one municipality under Israeli law. In 1980, its parliament passed a law declaring "complete and united" Jerusalem to be Israel’s capital. Most nations rejected the move. The only two that complied, Costa Rica and El Salvador, eventually moved their diplomatic posts to Tel Aviv under pressure from Arab states.

3. Does anyone still envision an international zone?

Not really. Vatican officials have periodically called for an "internationally guaranteed special statute" for Jerusalem. However, the U.S., Russia, the European Union and the United Nations, acting collectively to advance peace between Israel and the Palestinians, have embraced the position that it’s up to the two sides to negotiate the status of Jerusalem. The issue has been among the knottiest in peace talks since the first Israeli-Palestinian accord, the 1993 Oslo agreement. Palestinians insist the city must be their capital and have picked a spot to build their parliament in east Jerusalem’s Abu Dis neighborhood. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government says Jerusalem will remain the “undivided and eternal capital” of the Jewish people.

4. What does Trump plan to do?

It’s unclear. Jordanian and Palestinian authorities said Dec. 5 that Trump told their leaders in phone calls that he intends to relocate the embassy from Tel Aviv. Some reports say he could recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital without actually moving the embassy, or at least without moving it right away.

5. What have other presidents done?

Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush vowed as candidates to move the embassy to Jerusalem but backed away once in office amid warnings that the move could spark Arab violence or scuttle peace talks. The U.S. Congress passed a law in 1995 requiring that the embassy be moved to Jerusalem by 1999, but the legislation included a provision allowing the president to waive the move for six months in the interest of national security -- and that’s what has happened ever since. Before leaving the White House, Barack Obama signed the waiver for a last time on Dec. 1, 2016, and Trump renewed it on June 1.

6. What would a move entail?

The U.S. has no facility in Jerusalem big enough to house the work of its embassy in Tel Aviv. It could build one, which would take years. Since 1989, it has leased from the Israeli government a large plot of land in Jerusalem’s Talpiot neighborhood, presumably for a future embassy. Robert Satloff, head of the pro-Israel Washington Institute, has argued that Trump could fulfill his promise by moving the American ambassador’s office to an existing U.S. facility in Jerusalem. The U.S. has a consulate-general in Jerusalem, which according to its website serves as the "de facto representative" of the U.S. government to the Palestinian Authority, which administers the limited self-rule that Palestinians exercise under their agreements with Israel.

7. What might happen if the embassy were moved?

Predictions range from a new war to violent protests to nothing other than diplomatic complaints. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan threatened to cut relations with Israel. The two countries were once strong allies but suspended ties from 2010 until 2016 after ten Turks were killed when Israeli forces raided a Turkish ship trying to break an embargo on the Gaza Strip. Palestinian leaders have suggested they might withdraw their recognition of Israel and shut down the Palestinian Authority, effectively ending any cooperation with Israel. A spokesman for the mainstream Palestinian political party Fatah predicted an embassy move could lead to a third intifada, or popular uprising against Israel. Members of Netanyahu’s cabinet say those threats are bluffs and that nothing would happen that the Israeli police and military couldn’t handle. Some analysts suggest Trump could mitigate the backlash by placing the embassy in mostly Jewish west Jerusalem and enlisting leaders in Jordan, Egypt and the Persian Gulf to make the case that the move wouldn’t prejudice a decision on the status of east Jerusalem in future negotiations.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 26342 | Location: TN/KY | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not sure either. I think it may be a symbolic kicking of a hornets' nest, but there may be more to it.
 
Posts: 6622 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
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As I understand it, pretending that Jerusalem (the 3000 year old capital) is in fact not the capital of Israel, is and has been nothing more than an attempt to appease muslims.

I say "fuck 'em". Good on Trump for doing the right thing here.


________________________________________________________

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 13528 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
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Part of a negotiation.
 
Posts: 3500 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
As I understand it, pretending that Jerusalem (the 3000 year old capital) is in fact not the capital of Israel, is and has been nothing more than an attempt to appease muslims.

I say "fuck 'em". Good on Trump for doing the right thing here.

Yup.


Q


 
Posts: 13784 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
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I agree, if you want to do something right, look at what Bush and Shrub did, look at what Zippy the Wonder Putz did

if you do the exact opposite, you're guaranteed a win

fuck the Arabs if they don't like it

as for peace talks, well those are just an illusion - if they ever got peace their entire economy would collapse - it thrives on violence



Peace is not the absence of conflict, but rather when you have your foot firmly on the enemies neck

"I'm only myself when I have a guitar in my hands." - George Harrison


 
Posts: 45310 | Location: Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Several years back I spent some time working in the US Consulate in Jerusalem- as stated above, it's not large enough to house an Embassy operation. Actually the consulate functions in Jerusalem are spread across several sites. The most interesting one is actually a very old Monastery. The Consulate sealed off the parts they use, and the Lazarist clergy still occupies some space on the other side of the walls.
I am not sure why the press, some foreign officials and our own politicians are acting so surprised today. Trump promised he would do it long ago, so he's doing it. Jerusalem is the rightful capital of Israel.
 
Posts: 142 | Location: Out West | Registered: January 14, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Festina Lente
Picture of feersum dreadnaught
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
As I understand it, pretending that Jerusalem (the 3000 year old capital) is in fact not the capital of Israel, is and has been nothing more than an attempt to appease muslims.

I say "fuck 'em". Good on Trump for doing the right thing here.

Yup.


this. If stating we're going to do something causes certain folks to declare "a day of rage" then what we propose is probably good. Better would be to line up the drones to target the protesters.



NRA Life Member - "Fear God and Dreadnaught"
 
Posts: 5866 | Location: in the red zone of the blue state, CT | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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Standard Middle-East / Muslim bluster - "Oh, we are going to DO something BAD if you do it".

Ok, bring it.
 
Posts: 36440 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Standard Middle-East / Muslim bluster - "Oh, we are going to DO something BAD if you do it".

Ok, bring it.




....or if you don't do it, or if you talk about it, or if the sun rises......
 
Posts: 6622 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
half-genius,
half-wit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Standard Middle-East / Muslim bluster - "Oh, we are going to DO something BAD if you do it".

Ok, bring it.


You mean worse that they have already been doing since May 1948?

F*ck 'em all, and the camels they stole to ride in on.

tac
 
Posts: 8535 | Location: UK, OR, ONT | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
Yeah, we don't want to make chronically angry terrorists angry. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 80295 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bad dog!
Picture of justjoe
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What, just one day of rage and done? As opposed to every single day of their lives? That will be a huge improvement! Shoulda done this long ago....


______________________________________________________

"You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone."
 
Posts: 9273 | Location: pennsylvania | Registered: June 05, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
I remember after 9-11, the Muslim Middle East community said "if you attack Afghanistan, there is gonna be trouble!"

Our unit was one prepared and assigned to take care of said trouble, if it were to occur.

OEF started and all we heard from them was <crickets crickets crickets> - the big blustery Syria, Libya, and others got REAL quiet...

99.99% of the time they are all talk.
 
Posts: 36440 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
bigger government
= smaller citizen
Picture of Veeper
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Is it true that Israel has everything needed to rebuild the Temple, on the temple mount, should they inexplicably find the top of said aforementioned mount clear of debris?

I seem to recall reading that somewhere, once upon a time.
 
Posts: 7548 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of TMats
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My understanding is that in 1995, Congress passed a resolution to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The first paragraph of BJ’s article from Bloomberg mentioned President Trump “signing a waiver that kept the embassy in Tel Aviv for six months.” Apparently, every President since the passing of the resolution has had to sign a waiver—every 6 months, in order to forestall implementation of Congress’ legislation. Trump signed one. When he didn’t sign another it set the table for this situation. No doubt, the Left will call him reckless for allowing this to happen.


_______________________________
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self.
- Earnest Hemingway
 
Posts: 6479 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
On the DL
Picture of V-Tail
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Thanks for the summary, Bama. That clears things up, a bit.

I forget which Israeli leader said it, when discussing one of the past wars for survival, s/he said something like "Our biggest advantage was that we were fighting against the Arabs." The implication was that Israel's military ability was far superior.



A mind is a terrible thing.
 
Posts: 16504 | Location: Central Florida (near Orlando) | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
All set

 
Posts: 80295 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Hop head
Picture of lyman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
Part of a negotiation.



likely true



www.chesterfieldarmament.com
 
Posts: 6092 | Location: Beach VA,not VA Beach | Registered: July 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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