Nope. I have to refund a few k to the gov. Did unexpectedly well.

Scheduled deposit from the gov says feb 22

I will file for an extension again

I am not giving my money to the government until I absolutely have to, especially since they milk me 5 times a year instead of the usual one

If you are getting a large refund you should consider changing your exemptions and doing away with your zero interest loan to the government. I guess for people who simply cannot save on their own it’s the only way they can save anything.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
If you are getting a large refund you should consider changing your exemptions and doing away with your zero interest loan to the government. I guess for people who simply cannot save on their own it’s the only way they can save anything.

This point is often made and while true just doesn't make sense. I get .15% putting in the bank or 1.25-1.5% on one year CD, or .5-.9% on MM account. With super low interest rates my $4,000 return would have netted me $40 interest in a best case scenario, more likely much less than that.

I'm in an hourly job which also has a slow period that exactly coincides with tax returns. I give up $20.00 in interest for the year and rest comfy that I have that money coming at slowest part of the year for work.

I don't have enough contempt for the government to try and stick it to them over $20. I'm not going to risk having to write a check to them at the worst possible time of the year for me to have an unexpected expense. Plus it's tedious to set aside the money each week and keep it separate from other savings or the risk of spending it foolishly.

$20 is worth my peace of mind.

quote:

Originally posted by GA Gator:
I owed $35 dollars, which is okay by me.

+1

My goal every year is to get zero back, and owe zero, but realistically I'm ok if I'm +/- $500.

I have no desire to give the government an interest free loan, and am constantly baffled by those who don't understand that getting a refund is a BAD thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
If you are getting a large refund you should consider changing your exemptions and doing away with your zero interest loan to the government. I guess for people who simply cannot save on their own it’s the only way they can save anything.

This point is often made and while true just doesn't make sense. I get .15% putting in the bank or 1.25-1.5% on one year CD, or .5-.9% on MM account. With super low interest rates my $4,000 return would have netted me $40 interest in a best case scenario, more likely much less than that.

I'm in an hourly job which also has a slow period that exactly coincides with tax returns. I give up $20.00 in interest for the year and rest comfy that I have that money coming at slowest part of the year for work.

I don't have enough contempt for the government to try and stick it to them over $20. I'm not going to risk having to write a check to them at the worst possible time of the year for me to have an unexpected expense. Plus it's tedious to set aside the money each week and keep it separate from other savings or the risk of spending it foolishly.

$20 is worth my peace of mind.

Now think of investing $4000 each year until you have saved for some big goal, such retirement, education for a child, etc, and you can put that money to much better use.

A decent bond mutual fund will meet or slightly beat inflation, and a decent stock fund will have you making money well past inflation, over the long haul.

Even with small returns, that's money being thrown away. I'm sure you wouldn't leave a $20 bill laying in the sidewalk because of the slight risk you'll hurt yourself bending down to pick it up.

Regardless, you could still get much closer to zero, than $4K, and still be below any penalty threshold on the off chance you owe a little, while putting your money to use for you.

Tax refunds are just that, refunds of your money someone else never should have had in the first place. They are not some windfall from the government, yet many participating here are treating it That way, which ignores the reality of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
If you are getting a large refund you should consider changing your exemptions and doing away with your zero interest loan to the government. I guess for people who simply cannot save on their own it’s the only way they can save anything.

This point is often made and while true just doesn't make sense. I get .15% putting in the bank or 1.25-1.5% on one year CD, or .5-.9% on MM account. With super low interest rates my $4,000 return would have netted me $40 interest in a best case scenario, more likely much less than that.

I'm in an hourly job which also has a slow period that exactly coincides with tax returns. I give up $20.00 in interest for the year and rest comfy that I have that money coming at slowest part of the year for work.

I don't have enough contempt for the government to try and stick it to them over $20. I'm not going to risk having to write a check to them at the worst possible time of the year for me to have an unexpected expense. Plus it's tedious to set aside the money each week and keep it separate from other savings or the risk of spending it foolishly.

$20 is worth my peace of mind.

Now think of investing $4000 each year until you have saved for some big goal, such retirement, education for a child, etc, and you can put that money to much better use.

A decent bond mutual fund will meet or slightly beat inflation, and a decent stock fund will have you making money well past inflation, over the long haul.

Even with small returns, that's money being thrown away. I'm sure you wouldn't leave a $20 bill laying in the sidewalk because of the slight risk you'll hurt yourself bending down to pick it up.

Regardless, you could still get much closer to zero, than $4K, and still be below any penalty threshold on the off chance you owe a little, while putting your money to use for you.

Tax refunds are just that, refunds of your money someone else never should have had in the first place. They are not some windfall from the government, yet many participating here are treating it That way, which ignores the reality of the situation.

Yep, I have the option of putting that money into a 401k and I’m sure that over my working life it will equate to a significant amount. I’m not going to calculate it but if you’re piece of mind is more important than investing your own money then keep doing what you’re doing - the government does not mind.

Ended up with a little more coming back than planned this year due to job change and not taking close look at w/h.

On a positive note, MS refund hit my account last TH, 4 DAYS after filing online. That's incredible. AL was always a month+. TX - oh how I miss TX!

Paying...again. Will wait until April to send in the return & check. I'm working on a spreadsheet to track income (known quantities) and extrapolate interest, dividends, AMT and net investment taxes from prior years for 2018. With the standard deduction at $24K, it should make estimating somewhat easier.

Haven't filed yet. Will do so soon. I might end up owing quite a bit due to stock sales. Ugh!

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
If you are getting a large refund you should consider changing your exemptions and doing away with your zero interest loan to the government. I guess for people who simply cannot save on their own it’s the only way they can save anything.

This point is often made and while true just doesn't make sense. I get .15% putting in the bank or 1.25-1.5% on one year CD, or .5-.9% on MM account. With super low interest rates my $4,000 return would have netted me $40 interest in a best case scenario, more likely much less than that.

I'm in an hourly job which also has a slow period that exactly coincides with tax returns. I give up $20.00 in interest for the year and rest comfy that I have that money coming at slowest part of the year for work.

I don't have enough contempt for the government to try and stick it to them over $20. I'm not going to risk having to write a check to them at the worst possible time of the year for me to have an unexpected expense. Plus it's tedious to set aside the money each week and keep it separate from other savings or the risk of spending it foolishly.

$20 is worth my peace of mind.

Now think of investing $4000 each year until you have saved for some big goal, such retirement, education for a child, etc, and you can put that money to much better use.

A decent bond mutual fund will meet or slightly beat inflation, and a decent stock fund will have you making money well past inflation, over the long haul.

Even with small returns, that's money being thrown away. I'm sure you wouldn't leave a $20 bill laying in the sidewalk because of the slight risk you'll hurt yourself bending down to pick it up.

Regardless, you could still get much closer to zero, than $4K, and still be below any penalty threshold on the off chance you owe a little, while putting your money to use for you.

Tax refunds are just that, refunds of your money someone else never should have had in the first place. They are not some windfall from the government, yet many participating here are treating it That way, which ignores the reality of the situation.

Yep, I have the option of putting that money into a 401k and I’m sure that over my working life it will equate to a significant amount. I’m not going to calculate it but if you’re piece of mind is more important than investing your own money then keep doing what you’re doing - the government does not mind.

I'll calculate it for you, using $4000/year, but running the calculations at $333.33/month, since you get it with each paycheck instead of waiting 13-16 months to get the refund.

Over 15 years in something like an S&P500 index fund, $333.33, would give you around $135000. (10.4% ARR, based on data for Vanguard S&P500 Index Fund). Not bad for a total investment of only $60,000 ($333.33/month for 15 years).

Let's say you're super conservative, and want to stick with bonds. After 15 years in a good bond index fund, you would have roughly $80000. (3.8% ARR, based on data for the Vanguard Total Bond Index fund). Again, pretty good for an initial investment of $60000.

If invested in a 401(k), IRA, 529, etc, you also get big tax savings, and potentially even greater tax savings of using a "Roth" 401(k), or "Roth" IRA.

The argument to give the government extra so one can get a refund later ignores two issues:

1. What if someone files a return fraudulently in your name, a common issue leading to a HUGE mess for you to clean up before you can hope to get any money back from the government, and

2. What says the government has to give you the refund, or when? I'd rather not have to depend on them to give back what was mine to begin with. It works great, until it doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
If you are getting a large refund you should consider changing your exemptions and doing away with your zero interest loan to the government. I guess for people who simply cannot save on their own it’s the only way they can save anything.

This point is often made and while true just doesn't make sense. I get .15% putting in the bank or 1.25-1.5% on one year CD, or .5-.9% on MM account. With super low interest rates my $4,000 return would have netted me $40 interest in a best case scenario, more likely much less than that.

I'm in an hourly job which also has a slow period that exactly coincides with tax returns. I give up $20.00 in interest for the year and rest comfy that I have that money coming at slowest part of the year for work.

I don't have enough contempt for the government to try and stick it to them over $20. I'm not going to risk having to write a check to them at the worst possible time of the year for me to have an unexpected expense. Plus it's tedious to set aside the money each week and keep it separate from other savings or the risk of spending it foolishly.

$20 is worth my peace of mind.

Now think of investing $4000 each year until you have saved for some big goal, such retirement, education for a child, etc, and you can put that money to much better use.

A decent bond mutual fund will meet or slightly beat inflation, and a decent stock fund will have you making money well past inflation, over the long haul.

Even with small returns, that's money being thrown away. I'm sure you wouldn't leave a $20 bill laying in the sidewalk because of the slight risk you'll hurt yourself bending down to pick it up.

Regardless, you could still get much closer to zero, than $4K, and still be below any penalty threshold on the off chance you owe a little, while putting your money to use for you.

Tax refunds are just that, refunds of your money someone else never should have had in the first place. They are not some windfall from the government, yet many participating here are treating it That way, which ignores the reality of the situation.

Yep, I have the option of putting that money into a 401k and I’m sure that over my working life it will equate to a significant amount. I’m not going to calculate it but if you’re piece of mind is more important than investing your own money then keep doing what you’re doing - the government does not mind.

I'll calculate it for you, using $4000/year, but running the calculations at $333.33/month, since you get it with each paycheck instead of waiting 13-16 months to get the refund.

Over 15 years in something like an S&P500 index fund, $333.33, would give you around $135000. (10.4% ARR, based on data for Vanguard S&P500 Index Fund). Not bad for a total investment of only $60,000 ($333.33/month for 15 years).

Let's say you're super conservative, and want to stick with bonds. After 15 years in a good bond index fund, you would have roughly $80000. (3.8% ARR, based on data for the Vanguard Total Bond Index fund). Again, pretty good for an initial investment of $60000.

If invested in a 401(k), IRA, 529, etc, you also get big tax savings, and potentially even greater tax savings of using a "Roth" 401(k), or "Roth" IRA.

That is all well and good. But for me putting it into a 401(k) is not an option. I need the money in the end of winter into the beginning of spring due to the seasonal nature of my work. The only decision to be make by me is if I put it into a savings or checking account. For .15% interest it's not even worth putting into a savings account.

My paychecks are $3-400 less per WEEK, sometimes $5-600 a week less during the slow season. I need additional savings to get me past a predictable and mostly unavoidable four month lull in business that happens every year. For me the miniscule returns aren't worth the effort.

If I had surplus money then it would certainly go into a tax deferred retirement account or 529 (if I had kids). I just don't have any surplus. So the above hypothetical returns are just that, hypothetical since that money is not available to be used in that manner.

I work it out so I get a whopping refund (like $20K) every year. And every year I treat it as found money. And every year the wife and I are happy to get the direct deposit.

My 401(k) is already maxed, including catch-up. So it would not otherwise go to retirement savings.

The $20K gets spent on “stuff” in the few months after we get it. Household repairs, whatever. I consider it enforced savings for the year.

I realize I could do a bit better if I put the money in VWINX or something. But then there’d be risk. Sure, I’m losing interest and inflation... but not every financial decision can be 100% rational.

Got mine over a week ago.

It gets put in the bank and waits to be put towards next years property taxes, of which it will cover less than half. Hopefully it will still be in the bank when next January rolls around.

I owe, so I file 4/15

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
If you are getting a large refund you should consider changing your exemptions and doing away with your zero interest loan to the government. I guess for people who simply cannot save on their own it’s the only way they can save anything.

This point is often made and while true just doesn't make sense. I get .15% putting in the bank or 1.25-1.5% on one year CD, or .5-.9% on MM account. With super low interest rates my $4,000 return would have netted me $40 interest in a best case scenario, more likely much less than that.

I'm in an hourly job which also has a slow period that exactly coincides with tax returns. I give up $20.00 in interest for the year and rest comfy that I have that money coming at slowest part of the year for work.

I don't have enough contempt for the government to try and stick it to them over $20. I'm not going to risk having to write a check to them at the worst possible time of the year for me to have an unexpected expense. Plus it's tedious to set aside the money each week and keep it separate from other savings or the risk of spending it foolishly.

$20 is worth my peace of mind.

Now think of investing $4000 each year until you have saved for some big goal, such retirement, education for a child, etc, and you can put that money to much better use.

A decent bond mutual fund will meet or slightly beat inflation, and a decent stock fund will have you making money well past inflation, over the long haul.

Even with small returns, that's money being thrown away. I'm sure you wouldn't leave a $20 bill laying in the sidewalk because of the slight risk you'll hurt yourself bending down to pick it up.

Regardless, you could still get much closer to zero, than $4K, and still be below any penalty threshold on the off chance you owe a little, while putting your money to use for you.

Tax refunds are just that, refunds of your money someone else never should have had in the first place. They are not some windfall from the government, yet many participating here are treating it That way, which ignores the reality of the situation.

Yep, I have the option of putting that money into a 401k and I’m sure that over my working life it will equate to a significant amount. I’m not going to calculate it but if you’re piece of mind is more important than investing your own money then keep doing what you’re doing - the government does not mind.

I'll calculate it for you, using $4000/year, but running the calculations at $333.33/month, since you get it with each paycheck instead of waiting 13-16 months to get the refund.

Over 15 years in something like an S&P500 index fund, $333.33, would give you around $135000. (10.4% ARR, based on data for Vanguard S&P500 Index Fund). Not bad for a total investment of only $60,000 ($333.33/month for 15 years).

Let's say you're super conservative, and want to stick with bonds. After 15 years in a good bond index fund, you would have roughly $80000. (3.8% ARR, based on data for the Vanguard Total Bond Index fund). Again, pretty good for an initial investment of $60000.

If invested in a 401(k), IRA, 529, etc, you also get big tax savings, and potentially even greater tax savings of using a "Roth" 401(k), or "Roth" IRA.

That is all well and good. But for me putting it into a 401(k) is not an option. I need the money in the end of winter into the beginning of spring due to the seasonal nature of my work. The only decision to be make by me is if I put it into a savings or checking account. For .15% interest it's not even worth putting into a savings account.

My paychecks are $3-400 less per WEEK, sometimes $5-600 a week less during the slow season. I need additional savings to get me past a predictable and mostly unavoidable four month lull in business that happens every year. For me the miniscule returns aren't worth the effort.

If I had surplus money then it would certainly go into a tax deferred retirement account or 529 (if I had kids). I just don't have any surplus. So the above hypothetical returns are just that, hypothetical since that money is not available to be used in that manner.

Even in your situation you are taking a risk. If you need that money in the "winter," but before the government decided to return your money to you, then you're out of luck. If you plan your withholdings better, and save the money yourself, you won't be at the mercy of the government bureaucracy when you need the money.

Also, as chongosuerte correctly points out, if you are ever a victim of a tax fraud scheme it will take many more months (possibly years) for the IRS, and possibly the courts, to get things straightened out, and return your money, that you lent to government, and was stolen by someone else.

ETA: How would a 4 to 6 month delay in getting your "winter" money hurt you?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/v...ud-heres-what-to-do/
One of the fastest growing crimes is ID theft involving a fraudulently filed tax return by someone who has your Social Security number and tries to get your refund. Unfortunately, most victims find out only when they try to e-file their tax return. Instead of getting confirmation from the IRS of a properly filed return, they get a rejection because a tax return in their name has already been filed.

If this happens to you, here are the steps the IRS advises taking:

-File your return by paper, if you are unable to e-file.
-Include a completed Form 14039, Identity Theft Affidavit with your paper tax return.
-When the IRS receives your Form 14039 and paper return, your case will be sent to its special Identity Theft Victim Assistance organization, and you'll receive an acknowledgement letter.

If all goes as it should, your return will be processed, your refund will be released and the fraudulent return will be removed from your tax records. Expect the entire process to take 120 to 180 days.

Again,that assumes, "everything goes as it should," and still would mean a 4 -6 month delay in getting your money.

Further, in an effort to combat that fraud the IRS is delaying refunds, as required by law, for many early filers. So if you claim certain tax credits you may wait longer for that refund, again putting yourself at the mercy of the bureaucracy to get your money.

quote:

Originally posted by prairiefire:
Anyone getting their tax refund - and making plans to send it? We got ours, but it was a pittance - looks like enough to get lunch at Mickey D's. I was hoping for something more elegant - like a 9mm variety!

I realize this is a pet peeve of mine - but why would anyone want to intentionally get a large tax refund? Adjust your withholding....

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:
I’m going to have to cut a check for about $20,000. That will be the very last thing that goes in the mail on a he 15th.

Hopefully that means you had a very profitable year (and hopefully this amount was not a big surprise).