quote:

Originally posted by MtnPlinker:
Some interesting info on 5.7x28mm info from the FNH website:

5.7x28mm Ammo Info

"The tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core
that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to become unstable in soft body tissue after just 2
inches of penetration."

...but this is the SS190 Ammo which is restricted sale. Doubt an army shrink could get it. I would, however, be interested to know what he WAS shooting. That's an awful lot of damage done...and still time to reload 5 times ???? There's gotta be more to this story.

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Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm projectiles fired by the FN P90:

--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.
--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.
--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.
--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.
--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.
--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.

The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

A few large U.S. LE agencies adopted 5.7 mm weapons--after being involved in several OIS incidents with P90's, 5.7 mm usage in these agencies plummeted as a result of the poor terminal performance.

It is all basic physics and physiology. Look at the surface areas in contact with tissue for 9 mm FMJ and JHP compared to 5.7 mm. When both are point forward, the 9 mm FMJ crushes more tissue than the 5.7 mm; for the short time that the 5.7 mm is at FULL yaw, it crushes a bit more tissue than the 9 mm FMJ. At no time does the 5.7 mm crush more tissue than the expanded 9 mm JHP--even when the 5.7 mm FMJ is at full yaw, an expanded 9 mm JHP crushes more tissue. The relatively small temporary cavities produced by both the 9 mm and 5.7 mm projectiles are not likely to cause significant injury to the majority of elastic structures of the body. As with any penetrating projectile, if either a 9 mm or 5.7 mm bullet is ideally placed to cause significant damage to the CNS or major cardiovascular organs, a fatal result is likely.

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The P90 can definitely penetrate soft body armor, but then so can 9 mm AP rounds. The greater momentum of 9 mm bullets allow them to defeat vehicles and other intermediate barriers better than the 5.7 mm bullets. Standard 9 mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP JHP loads crush more tissue, offer ideal penetration, and are equally likely to not exit the opponent as the 5.7 mm. 5.56 mm and 6.8 mm weapons offer significantly superior terminal effects compared to 5.7 mm. Bottom line—what does the P90 offer that is not already available?

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Forgive me, please, tanksoldier - I respect you no end, but I had to speak my mind. I hope I am misunderstanding what you meant with your post.

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The FN 5.7x28mm SS197SR Sporting Cartridge is designed for sporting and competition use in the FN Five-seveN USG handgun and the FN PS90 carbine. It is loaded with the Hornady V-Max 40grn bullet, a highly accurate polymer tip, copper jacketed ead core projectile designed for rapid exansion and dramatic fragmentation, even at low impact velocities. Features a brass case, and non-corrosive boxer primer. Packaged 50rds to a box, and 2,000rds (40 boxes) to a case.

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Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
Damn it! Now I've got to go out an buy another gun, an FN Five-seven before it gets banned.

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Originally posted by tanksoldier:

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Forgive me, please, tanksoldier - I respect you no end, but I had to speak my mind. I hope I am misunderstanding what you meant with your post.

I was being a bit sarcastic.

I wasn't trying to say that the shooter was suffering PTSD or anything, I was trying to point out that the theory he was a coward trying to avoid combat, so he went and shot up a military base, doesn't really hold water.

I suppose it's possible but I think it unlikely. I don't know what the answer IS, I don't know why he did it, but I don't think it's THAT.

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Originally posted by GeorgeFromPa:
the gun sucks. iv shot one.. feels like crap. the round is only good when you need to go thru a vest and then you need the armor peircing ammo. chits expencive and they dont sell it in the usa unless your law enforcemet..

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Originally posted by Ozarkwoods:
My thought on his use of the FN 5.7 is that he was planning on doing as many hits with one round fired as possible

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Originally posted by sendec:
Does the UCMJ even address competency or insanity as requirements for trial or as a defense?

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Originally posted by roarindan:

...
why did he not resign his commision?
" " " " go AWOL?
" " " " " assault one of his superiors and get discharged?