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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
My understanding, though, is that when the Feds want to do clearing, controlled burns, or other forestry management, the states start their lawsuit machines to stop or delay the efforts.


Yeah...no.

quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
Additionally, most “Federal” land is only managed by the Federal government.


Not true at all.

quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
It is not owned by the Federal government, per the Constitution.


No, Ownship is federal.

quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
The states do have responsibility for the brush and lack of lightning rod protection which could be achieved with simple cheap mental towers with good grounding that would attract all such energy before it goes to the trees and brush.


No, the federal government has responsibility and jurisdiction for federal land.

Cheap "mental" towers that prevent forest fires?

quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:

Here's a good article on the subject:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/20...nd-wildfire-debacle/


If you take the time to read that article, you'll find that the LAO report, on which the article is based, states the opposite of what you think it says.

The LAO report specifically observes that while ownship parties are responsible for their respective land, fire does not know jurisdictional boundaries. This is why a fire that begins on private land may wind up on state or federal land, and become the problem of different ownship.
 
Posts: 5157 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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“While forest management responsibilities typically align with ownership, natural processes—such as forest fires, water runoff, and wildlife habitats—do not observe those jurisdictional boundaries. As such, federal and state agencies have developed certain arrangements to collaborate on management activities across California’s forests. For example, federal law has a provision—known as the “Good Neighbor Authority”—that allows states to fund and implement forest health projects on federally owned land. As discussed later, the federal government also funds a number of grant programs to encourage collaborative projects on both federal and nonfederal forestlands. Additionally, federal and state agencies have established agreements for collaborative fire suppression efforts across jurisdictions when fires do occur.”

Basically the article says what I said it does.

As for the rest of your comments - as usual you don't provide any evidence to the contrary.




 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You don't understand your own reference, clearly didn't read it well, and want "evidence" that a state is responsible for state-owned lands, and the federal government is responsible for federal owned lands?

Seriously?
 
Posts: 5157 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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guppy - we've both gone round before and you don't seem to have any ability to recognize any information other than what you believe. From past experience and observation on this forum I've learned that attempting a civil discussion with you is pointless.

Anyway, Tac you have information and my recommendations and I'll certainly respond to your response or questions.




 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We live next to the largest state forest in Florida and are surrounded by large tracts of privately owned forest. Our own 100 acre tree farm is miniscule but a piece of the puzzle. Our trees are longleaf pine. When the wind and humidity is right, there is a prescribed burn on a tract here somewhere almost every day. Forestry, Wildlife biologists, and USDA prescribes burns every 2 years. (That is also critical to Bobwhite Quail and Turkey populations.) Even though we get up to 80 inches of rain per year, we have dry periods with low humidity, and if it were not for those prescribed burns this area would be a ticking bomb.

Perhaps it is more complex than I can understand, but I would think regular prescribed burning on the west coast would be preferable to fighting these massive wildfires. Other than EPA and tree hugger objections, what are the barriers to prescribed burning out there?


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Posts: 3400 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
half-genius,
half-wit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by tacfoley:
Now, Gentlemen, before you blow me out of the water here for interfering, you have to remember that Mrs tac and I have a number of very dear friends in Oregon, some of whom are having a hard time, to say the least.

In that respect alone, I have an axe to grind.

See, here in UK we get YOUR news on many channels, and I've just watched your president stand right there and blame the citizens of Oregon and California for the present ongoing disaster, citing mismanagement of forestry.

I recall that the vast majority of these fires are on FEDERAL property.

WUXTREE WUXTREE!!!!! Mrs tac just came in now to tell me that she has just seen President Trump talking to the people from California,noting commenting that 'it'll get cooler'. 'Not according to the scientists', responded the dismayed Californian people. 'Well, scientists don't know everything', said your president.

I'm aghast, Sirs and Madams.


President Trump isn't blaming the citizens, he's exposing the various state administrations for their 40+ years of forestry mismanagement. If by proxy you want to associate this mismanagement to the citizens because they were the ones who kept electing politicians who listened to The Sierra Club over forestry professionals, if the shoe fits...

Regarding President Trump's comment about scientists - examine the "science" of the Whuhan virus. How many times have so many scientists that have been presented in various news media been been wrong not only in their predictions (especially that guy from the UK who had an affair while under quarantine), but also in the protective measures that other scientists have debunked as being useless? On masks alone, how many were against them before they were for them?

More specifically to the point of science and "climate change", wasn't there a scandal a few years ago regarding emails between so-called climate change scientists someplace in Greenwhich, England, where they were exposed for manipulating data and lying in order to make the results fit their agenda?

From what I understand of European reporting on American news, especially politics, it's along the same lines and bias as CNN, MSNBC, and the other mass media controlled by America-hating Socialists/Progressives/etc. I don't know your politics but if you're open-minded enough to do so, and if you can get their broadcasts, I recommend Rush Limbaugh, Tucker Carlson, and One America News Network. There are others, but I've found those three to be accurate and rarely wrong.

Edit to Add:

As far as the fires being mostly on Federal land - sure Federal regulations need to be looked at and, if necessary, changed. My understanding, though, is that when the Feds want to do clearing, controlled burns, or other forestry management, the states start their lawsuit machines to stop or delay the efforts.

Additionally, most “Federal” land is only managed by the Federal government. It is not owned by the Federal government, per the Constitution. The states do have responsibility for the brush and lack of lightning rod protection which could be achieved with simple cheap mental towers with good grounding that would attract all such energy before it goes to the trees and brush.

Here's a good article on the subject:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/20...nd-wildfire-debacle/


Thank you for the clarification.

I withdraw my post.
 
Posts: 10195 | Location: UK, OR, ONT | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Every State has trees, forests and Federal Land. Why are the fires so bad in Cal, Oregon and Wa State?


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Posts: 12519 | Location: Bottom of Lake Washington | Registered: March 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
half-genius,
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quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:From what I understand of European reporting on American news, especially politics, it's along the same lines and bias as CNN, MSNBC, and the other mass media controlled by America-hating socialists/Progressives/etc.


We see your news, but we can also see the other news channels, as you suggest. The BBC reports what it sees.
 
Posts: 10195 | Location: UK, OR, ONT | Registered: July 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have friends who are veteran brothers and sisters who have set up two camps to feed the firefighters and first responders. I know one is in Estacada and the other I think is around Sublimity.

https://www.kptv.com/wildfires...P3LBpapWbfAx1OTmEn74


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Posts: 3222 | Location: Boardman, Oregon | Registered: September 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Arsonist Caught on Video Starting Brush Fire in Kelso, Washington

https://www.thegatewaypundit.c...re-kelso-washington/


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Posts: 8248 | Registered: January 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Perhaps it is more complex than I can understand, but I would think regular prescribed burning on the west coast would be preferable to fighting these massive wildfires. Other than EPA and tree hugger objections, what are the barriers to prescribed burning out there?

Variety of factors, most of which are either human inconvenience or, environmental concern. It's not unusual for a planned burn or, in the process of yet, a home owners association, influential property owner, animal rights group, major holiday weekend, etc pitches a fit and the county halts the action. Lots of NIMBY activity with this one. Increasingly, wealthy leftists are combining their fortunes to purchase large tracts of land creating land trusts. Private property that's been purchased for the express purpose to halt any changes or ownership they deem offensive. There's a lot of private property owners who aren't doing what they should be doing or dithering about managing the accumulated fuel on their property.

On the environmental front, its in wide agreement in the West, the ecology functions when there's periodic burns, the hang-up is layers of environmental regulatory agencies that get to review the activity and 'concerned citizens' start to weigh-in: the CA Air Board declares Its a Spare the Air day, the AQI is too high, there's a migration happening, a review by a different agency goes past the safety window, etc...

Basic weather also plays a roll which can shut available windows to do a burn: too much wind, wind blowing in the wrong direction, not enough humidity...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: corsair,
 
Posts: 10535 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Nothing needs to be said. This picture says it all.



Jim


Same type of picture you could have taken here on the front range of Colorado due to our Cameron Peak fire last week. The smoke/smell was horrid. Ash on everything outside. We had 12 plus inches of snow on it, and they still only list it as 4% contained. Prayers to all who are impacted by this fire beast. It can't rain or snow enough soon enough to squash this menace.



"Someday I hope to be half the man my bird-dog thinks I am."

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Posts: 9814 | Location: Colorado  | Registered: July 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:


Perhaps it is more complex than I can understand, but I would think regular prescribed burning on the west coast would be preferable to fighting these massive wildfires. Other than EPA and tree hugger objections, what are the barriers to prescribed burning out there?


Prescribed fire helps manage wildland to some degree. It does not prevent wildfire.

Prescribed fire that gets away is a lawsuit. A really, really big lawsuit.

quote:
Originally posted by tacfoley:

Thank you for the clarification.

I withdraw my post.


He clarified nothing. His comments were the exact opposite of truth, and are completely inaccurate.

When he states that states are responsible for federal lands, he is exactly wrong, and the article he provides states the opposite of what he thinks he read. The article provides that states are NOT responsible for federal land, and that ownship is the responsibility of the owner.
 
Posts: 5157 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by tacfoley:
Thank you for the clarification.

I withdraw my post.


Just got back on after a busy day -

Tac, it wasn't my intent to have you withdraw your post and after re-reading mine I believe I came across with a lot more bite in my remarks than were warranted. I apologize for that.

I hope you do continue to post questions and comments as they come to you. A different perspective can help achieved a better balance.




 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are arsonists during every large fire. Arsonists who are homeless, looking for some jail time with food and a roof. Arsonists taking advantage of the distraction to kill someone, a murder totally unrelated to the fire. Arsonists looking to rake in some insurance money, who figure the fire will cover their tracks. Arsonists who crave the excitement, or who want to be important, the man who made everyone jump. Arsonists who were just burning garbage; just shooting steel; just announcing their baby's gender; who dragged chains on their trailer hookup; who had a hot brake; who lit fireworks; who didn't put out a camp fire; who burned toilet paper instead of burying it; who looted homes and burned them to hide the fact.

For whatever their motives, they worsen the situation, siphon away valuable resources that could be focusing on the emergency at hand, doing their job. Instead, law enforcement and fire are stretched thin dealing with the interlopers.

Not unlike militia mall ninja fucks that stop cars at gunpoint and spread idiotic conspiracy bullshit and panic and rumors about antifa arsonists...further tying up resources, clogging 911 lines, and forcing personnel to divert their attention when they could be focusing at the emergency at hand.
 
Posts: 5157 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tacfoley:
Now, Gentlemen, before you blow me out of the water here for interfering, you have to remember that Mrs tac and I have a number of very dear friends in Oregon, some of whom are having a hard time, to say the least.

In that respect alone, I have an axe to grind.

See, here in UK we get YOUR news on many channels, and I've just watched your president stand right there and blame the citizens of Oregon and California for the present ongoing disaster, citing mismanagement of forestry.

I recall that the vast majority of these fires are on FEDERAL property.

WUXTREE WUXTREE!!!!! Mrs tac just came in now to tell me that she has just seen President Trump talking to the people from California,noting commenting that 'it'll get cooler'. 'Not according to the scientists', responded the dismayed Californian people. 'Well, scientists don't know everything', said your president.

I'm aghast, Sirs and Madams.


You oughta know better than to trust the media.

And by saying it would get cooler, the President was joking about the fact that winter is coming.

And it's 100% damned true that scientists, especially those espoused by the media and especially the climate alarmists, don't know a hell of a lot. Never more has this been proven to be the case than in the last six months.


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Posts: 24742 | Location: Ski Town, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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People are getting pissed now. Some lady in Oregon caught a guy walking around with matches in his hand. Nothing else. No smokes or anything. Pulls a gun and makes him lay there until the cops arrive.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ore...arsonist-at-gunpoint


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Posts: 658 | Registered: July 20, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^ you failed to mention that the "guy walking around" was ON HER PROPERTY.

that's a very important detail.


.
 
Posts: 8797 | Location: The Beaver State | Registered: February 28, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
^^ you failed to mention that the "guy walking around" was ON HER PROPERTY.

that's a very important detail.


Yep, a very big deal. I know I walk around with matches all the time on other peoples property that have fires burning all around them.
 
Posts: 6608 | Registered: October 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
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quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
^^ you failed to mention that the "guy walking around" was ON HER PROPERTY.

that's a very important detail.

Extremely important detail. A friend in my hometown posted a video talking about her husband catching a kid lighting their hay bales on fire. He was grabbing gear at their place having been working a dozer up in the Scotts Mills/Abiqua Hills area making a fire line...since the official fire line was made to leave Silverton, Mt Angel, and half the valley behind it. I'm in some of the local forums there. PLENTY of first hand accounts from people catching these asshole terrorists in the act.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Posts: 12775 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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