(Title edited per members request)

Let's discuss the coming debate over increasing the Federal debt ceiling.

The R's have lost every time they have hard lined and shut the government down. My political horse sense says that No Way No How will they play Brinksmanship with the D's.

Federal spending still remains out of control with little to no desire to even throttle it back let alone cut it.

Every interest group wants their piece of the pie, is looking out to see that their constituency are the ones who get a little less in the next budget.

So SF, lets hear your thoughts on what the discussion will be in Congress and how much longer you think we can keep on trying to borrow our way into prosperity.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Appliance Brad,

I have lived in many different locations throughout North America. I've lived in areas where the populace was highly intellegent, and I've lived on the opposite side of intelligence - namely, the San Francisco Bay Area. One thing I've learned from these comparisons is that the less intelligent just never want to face reality. If you try to get them to see where they are inevitably headed unless they change direction, they just decide to eliminate you from their life - 'cause "you're a bummer, man." Then, when the fall or catastrophe eventually happens, they are thoroughly shocked.

It reminds me of the spoiled young emperor who inherited his kingdom from his wise father. The young king hated hearing bad news, so he decreed, "Anyone who brings me bad news will be beheaded." Suddenly, there was never any bad news. Then, a few months later, the young king heard horrible noises from outside his castle, and when he went to the window he observed his nation's number one enemy marching through the streets destroying just about everything in sight. He was shocked and wondered why nobody warned him long before things got so out of hand.

This is how I see the people who refuse to see where this out-of-control national debt is eventually going to take us. If you even bring the subject up, they instantly see you as a "Debbie Downer," and seem to feel you're seeing doom and gloom where there is none. Funny, that's how I see them with their allowing themselves to be duped by the global warming scam. But, the national debt is no scam, it's not something that can be credibly denied, and deep down, I think they realize this fact, and that's why it makes them so uncomfortable if you bring it up. Bottom line: You're making them uncomfortable, therefore, "you're a bummer, man."

At the end of this game Economics will succeed and the economy will collapse. Plain and simple
The dreaded curse-word "Government Shutdown" is all BS.
Congress decided 83% of the government is necessary and only 17% are actually furloughed.
The US constitution clearly states in the 14th amendment (section 4)
that any and all Debt is the number one item to be paid, followed by pensions, which include federal pensions and Social Security.
Even when the government shuts down every single day, billions of dollars in revenue are paid to the government via corporate taxes, withholding taxes etc.

When you hear the words "default on the nation's debt" it's Pure bullshit. This is the establishments buzzword to con low information people into believing that if we do not INCREASE the spending ceiling for all the pet "establishment goodies", we will default.
There is only one way to resolve this is to cut the spending, increase jobs, which increases tax revenues, to pay down the debt.
Pres. Trump had a plan to eliminate completely out of that in 10 years, we know that Congress will never allow him to succeed in this, however.

Just the same beware of those frightening words about government shutdown and defaulting on the nations debt.

Eliminate and consolidate redundant Government agencies would be a great start to saving billions of dollars.
Obama hired 10's of thousands as gov employees, to improve his pathetic unemployment figures. They should be the very first to go!

If we ran our household budgets like the U.S. Gov't, we'd be broke.

This is why I am not in favor of National Reciprocity. Our Gov't fucks up everything it touches.

I would suggest a modification to the title, so as not to offend some members. As you probably know Harvey has been downgraded to a tropical storm but is still affecting many members in Texas. It will undoubtedly be the most costly disaster to affect the United States. I know this was accidental, as I respect all you do for the members here.

^^^^
Agreed. Thank you.

quote:

If we ran our household budgets like the U.S. Gov't, we'd be broke.

oddly enough, our household is saturation bombed day in and day out, by various advertisements and clever efforts to make our home budget and financial decisions ever more like the US Govt methodology.

Just yesterday we were profoundly struck by the notion we should ignore advise to the contrary and not worry about actual bills accruing monthly....the fed.gov model is to not worry abound paying 1-1-2017 bills until 10/1/2017....and then we should simply borrow enough to roll over the debt, announce there is no way to pay it off but insist we are TOO BIG TO FAIL....

Our debtors will all want to get their money back so they'll go along with ever longer terms and higher interest guarantee...

...here....just put that payment on THIS card....

quote:

Originally posted by elde:
^^^^
Agreed. Thank you.

Yep, many of my neighbors have flooded houses and I could wake in the same condition in the morning.I tried driving 8 miles to help a friend caught in the flooding and was able to make it about two miles before I reached roads that were impassable - it's not over yet. Now back to the threadtopic.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
At the end of this game Economics will succeed and the economy will collapse. Plain and simple

Pretty much this. With any luck at all, most of us can retire before our 401Ks are worth nothing. Stock up on gold and silver.

quote:

pugilism

pu·gi·lism
ˈpyo͞ojəˌlizəm/Submit
noun dated humorous
the profession or hobby of boxing.
"I do not go to displays of pugilism"

quote:

Originally posted by ulsterman:
If we ran our household budgets like the U.S. Gov't, we'd be broke.

Actually, we'd be in prison.

Put there by the federal government.

As for the debt ceiling, it's a nonissue, a combination of kabuki theatre, low budget horror movie, and porn, presented by the 525 stooges.

Has there ever been a time it wasn't raised?

Here's a great article regarding the National Debt!

Levin on ‘Big Lie’ in DC: If Debt Ceiling Is Not Raised, US Will Not Default

Michael Morris By Michael Morris | August 25, 2017 | 2:45 PM EDT

Nationally syndicated radio talk show host Mark Levin (Flickr Photo/Labeled for Reuse)
Nationally syndicated radio talk show host Mark Levin called out the media and politicians in Washington for promoting the “big lie” that failing to raise the debt ceiling in September will cause the U.S. to default, saying, the U.S. will not default.

“Stick with me on this. It’s very important, and I have to explain it every couple of years,” said Mark Levin. “So, the debt ceiling isn’t raised. There’s not a default. When Mitch McConnell says over and over and over again, and now Paul Ryan, parroting Mitch McConnell, says over and over and over again and the fraud that is the American media repeats the same thing, the American people begin to believe the big lie. It doesn’t even make any sense.”

Levin’s comments came after Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Monday, “There is zero chance, no chance we won’t raise the debt ceiling. No chance. America’s not going to default, and we’ll get the job done in conjunction with the Secretary of the Treasury.”


Below is a transcript of Levin’s remarks from his show Thursday:

“Folks, seems like every few years I have to do the same things because there is this propaganda that comes from the media and the Washington politicians and the parasites who feed off government spending and debt, that if we don’t raise the debt ceiling and raise it immediately, the government will default.

“Now what does it mean when the government defaults? How does the government default? What has to happen for the government to default? Anybody know?

“For the government to default, that means that the government does not pay its debt obligations.

“Under the 14th Amendment – stay with me on this – Section 4, it says, ‘The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. …’

“So first and foremost, the first penny the federal government receives is to go to paying down the debt, the principle and the interest. That’s at the front of the line, the principle and the interest.

“If the government fails to pay the principle and the interest, then it will default. Why would it fail to pay the principle and the interest when there’s plenty of money? Even if the government shuts down there’s hundreds of billions of dollars available still to pay the principle and the interest on the debt, that is, the debt service.
“It’s like states. If states fail to pay the principle and interest on their debt, they go bankrupt. They default.

“We’re not talking about that are we? We’re talking about funding government programs. So they talk about funding the government. No, no, no. There’s funding government programs, and then there’s paying the debt service: two different things – two different things.

“The 14th Amendment compels the federal government, first and foremost, to pay the debt service, that is the principle and the interest on the debt. It does not compel the federal government to spend enormous sums of money on domestic spending or what have you.

“Now, understand how this works. Come a date in September, they will tell us that we’ve run out of money, not only out of hard currency, real money, but we have borrowed and borrowed and borrowed and we can’t even borrow more money unless Congress raises the debt ceiling and authorizes itself to borrow more money.

“Now, why is it borrowing more money? Is it borrowing more money to pay the principle and interest on the debt? No! It’s borrowing more money to pay for Obamacare, to pay for infrastructure, to subsidize this group and that group, to pay grants to this group and that group, to redistribute wealth, and on and on and on.

“In other words, they’re not raising the debt ceiling to pay the principle and interest on our debt. There’s raising the debt ceiling to continue the profligate spending.

“Stick with me on this. It’s very important, and I have to explain it every couple of years. So, the debt ceiling isn’t raised. There’s not a default. When Mitch McConnell says over and over and over again and now Paul Ryan, parroting Mitch McConnell, says over and over and over again and the fraud that is the American media repeats the same thing, the American people begin to believe the big lie. It doesn’t even make any sense.

“New federal spending begins on October 1. New federal spending begins on October 1. If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, ladies and gentleman, it doesn’t in any respect endanger our ability to pay the principle and interest on the debt. That day will come, but it’s not here yet. The day will come, but it’s not here yet.

“They have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars to pay the debt service. What they will not have is an open checkbook, an open-ended bank account to pay for massive government programs. That’s why they’re trying to scare the hell out of you.

“They don’t care about the federal debt. Have they showed any concern whatsoever about the federal debt? They do not want to deal with profligate, out of control, massive federal spending that’s driving up the debt. They don’t want to deal with it, and they sure as hell don’t want to deal with it in September. And they think it’s a political disaster if they actually have to start eliminating programs or cutting programs, eliminating departments or cutting agencies or eliminating them.

“That’s what they don’t want to do. It has nothing to do with paying to our debt service – zero!”



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