Speaking of Muslims - I mean US Congresswoman

November 08, 2018, 03:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
I'm with you. I have a Muslim cousin-in-law with whom I have a polite relationship (his wife recently died so I probably won't be seeing him much any more), but I don't think Islam is compatible with American values.

^Bingo. No devout Muslim should ever hold office (at any level) in this country given their religious beliefs are diametrically opposed to the principles this country was founded on. Now a Muslim in name only is another thing all together, and there are a lot of these folks living in this country.

November 08, 2018, 03:41 PM

MNSIG

^^^^^^^

While I agree with you, how in the heck would you implement that?

November 08, 2018, 05:35 PM

nhtagmember

I wonder if she could go camping....

November 08, 2018, 05:43 PM

bigdeal

quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
^^^^^^^

While I agree with you, how in the heck would you implement that?

Common sense and love of country are no longer looked upon as positive attributes, so implementing anything like I noted is impossible. Maybe the better approach would be to prohibit them from emigrating to this country in the first place.

November 08, 2018, 07:42 PM

flashguy

quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
^^^^^^^

While I agree with you, how in the heck would you implement that?
Common sense and love of country are no longer looked upon as positive attributes, so implementing anything like I noted is impossible. Maybe the better approach would be to prohibit them from emigrating to this country in the first place.

I have long argued that we should never have allowed any of them to immigrate here at all.

flashguy

November 08, 2018, 08:22 PM

Gustofer

quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
^^^^^^^

While I agree with you, how in the heck would you implement that?

They all take an oath of office. When they are found to violate it? Throw them in jail.

And I, too, think we need to ban them from entering the country.

November 08, 2018, 08:32 PM

sigfreund

“[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Article VI. Constitution of the United States of America.

November 08, 2018, 09:02 PM

Gustofer

islam is not a religion, it's a cult.

November 08, 2018, 09:14 PM

Dusty78

quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
“[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Article VI. Constitution of the United States of America.

This. Saying someone shouldn’t hold office much less even be in this country due to the religion they practice is just about the least “American” thing you can say. While the puritans came here seeking religious freedom for themselves the constitution solidified that it would be afforded to all religions.

November 08, 2018, 09:40 PM

bigdeal

quote:
Originally posted by Dusty78:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
“[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Article VI. Constitution of the United States of America.

This. Saying someone shouldn’t hold office much less even be in this country due to the religion they practice is just about the least “American” thing you can say. While the puritans came here seeking religious freedom for themselves the constitution solidified that it would be afforded to all religions.

Wonder if the Pol's felt that way when the Germany army rolled into town? Religious tolerance only goes so far and as mentioned earlier, Islam is not a religion but rather a theocratic structure that permeates every aspect of its adherents lives including government, which coincidentally is also addressed in (and prohibited by) the US Constitution. Strict adherents of Islam are the enemy of this country because strict adherence to the tenets of Islam requires it.

November 08, 2018, 09:48 PM

flashguy

quote:
Originally posted by Dusty78:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
“[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
Article VI. Constitution of the United States of America.

This. Saying someone shouldn’t hold office much less even be in this country due to the religion they practice is just about the least “American” thing you can say. While the puritans came here seeking religious freedom for themselves the constitution solidified that it would be afforded to all religions.

It's not the "religion" that should be prohibited, but the set of laws that is bound up in it; since those are not compatible with our laws they should not be here.

flashguy

November 08, 2018, 09:50 PM

BMR

quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
islam is not a religion, it's a cult.

That's right. It's a political ideology thinly disguised as a religion.

November 08, 2018, 09:52 PM

sigfreund

I would bet my house that a Supreme Court consisting of nine Kavanaughs would rule that Islam is just as much a religion as any Christian sect, or that even atheism—which is truly not a religion—could not be used as a basis for denying someone the right to hold public office.

I just finished a book that detailed the religious tests that various states required to hold office in the late 18th century. Most at least required a belief in the Christian resurrection, a belief in biblical inerrancy, a belief in the Christian Trinity, or something similar. Some specifically disqualified Catholics even if they met the other criteria, and of course Jews wouldn’t have been close to qualified. Just as obnoxious diesel truck drivers contribute to the calls for more emission controls today, those requirements were the obvious basis for the “no religious test” in Article VI.

I am no fan of Islam or most of its brainwashed adherents but to say it’s not a religion is just silly.

November 08, 2018, 11:09 PM

mcrimm

Another crack in the wall.

November 09, 2018, 10:55 AM

46and2

quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
islam is not a religion, it's a cult.

Oh stop it.

I've no love for them, but here is literally zero credibility in this point of view, and the irony of one adherent of religion A claiming religion B isn't real is sublimely absurd. Neither you nor I nor anyone else gets to tell some other fucker whether or not the crazy shit they believe in is real. It's real because they believe it's real, just like how Catholicism/etc works.

And not only is it A religion, it's a different flavor of the same damn thing. All Abrahamic religions are. All of y'all are worshipping the same damn god, only differently. To a non believer it's like watching Harry Potter fans argue with Star Wars fans over which one is real. It's mind numbing, and a pointless waste of time.

Further - even though I don't trust a one of them - the vast, vast majority of them (99+%) engage in no such violent or crazy behavior beyond thinking the crazy shit they think. And if this conversation had happened at various points throughout history we could just as easily be talking about your religion instead, as they all have kooky pasts to say the least.

Y'all (believers) opened the door for this kooky shit. Own it. You have no monopoly on kooky beliefs. That's not how the Constitution was written nor how this country was formed. And it's unfortunate, but thems the breaks.

The best we can hope for, realistically, is for Islam to eventually go through a New Testament like reformation where they too shed their kookiest parts, so we can all get on with life. Frankly, I doubt it'll happen in our lifetimes. These Harry Potter vs Star Wars battles have raged for centuries already.

November 09, 2018, 12:38 PM

nhtagmember

I am one of those people that thinks that Islam is a cult disguised as a religion

but lets also not lose sight of the fact that the Constitution is not a suicide pact when it comes to terrorist organizations such as Islam

this country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and no way could the founding fathers - as brilliant as they were, foresee the rise of a cult who's aim is the destruction of this country

November 09, 2018, 12:47 PM

Crom

quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
No devout Muslim should ever hold office (at any level) in this country given their religious beliefs are diametrically opposed to the principles this country was founded on.

Well, I disagree with this, but there has to be some nuance:
A "Moderate" Muslim could be a perfectly fine citizen, because Western culture gives them the freedom to interpret the religion in a moderate way. I think they would still be "devout". Remember that Christianity has undergone some "reformations", but Islam hasn't

But I agree that a "devout Muslim" is completely incompatible with Western Culture if the devoutness is as dictated by most currently operating Islamic States, and the major clergy thereof.

November 09, 2018, 12:55 PM

bigdeal

quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
islam is not a religion, it's a cult.

Oh stop it.

I've no love for them, but here is literally zero credibility in this point of view, and the irony of one adherent of religion A claiming religion B isn't real is sublimely absurd. Neither you nor I nor anyone else gets to tell some other fucker whether or not the crazy shit they believe in is real. It's real because they believe it's real, just like how Catholicism/etc works.

And not only is it A religion, it's a different flavor of the same damn thing. All Abrahamic religions are. All of y'all are worshipping the same damn god, only differently. To a non believer it's like watching Harry Potter fans argue with Star Wars fans over which one is real. It's mind numbing, and a pointless waste of time.

Further - even though I don't trust a one of them - the vast, vast majority of them (99+%) engage in no such violent or crazy behavior beyond thinking the crazy shit they think. And if this conversation had happened at various points throughout history we could just as easily be talking about your religion instead, as they all have kooky pasts to say the least.

Y'all (believers) opened the door for this kooky shit. Own it. You have no monopoly on kooky beliefs. That's not how the Constitution was written nor how this country was formed. And it's unfortunate, but thems the breaks.

The best we can hope for, realistically, is for Islam to eventually go through a New Testament like reformation where they too shed their kookiest parts, so we can all get on with life. Frankly, I doubt it'll happen in our lifetimes. These Harry Potter vs Star Wars battles have raged for centuries already.

Stop it with the religious BS will ya. I'm not an adherent to any real organized religion, and I do not believe Islam to be a legitimate religion given its focus. The US Constitution forbids placing any religion front and center in the country or in its governance. Could a devout Muslim who strictly holds to the tenets of Islam and Sharia detach themselves from their beliefs and govern within the confines of the Constitution? The answer to that is self-evident. And Islamic law is the antithesis of of the basic tenets American was founded on.

No sir, Islam is not a legitimate religion IMO, and devout, sharia adhering, Muslims have no place in this country and/or its governance.