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US Navy F-18E shoots down Syrian SU-22, good kill. :D Login/Join 
Something wild
is loose
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quote:
Originally posted by icom706:

I'd rather not find out.


This would be an accurate assessment.



"And gentlemen in England now abed, shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day"
 
Posts: 2746 | Location: The Shire | Registered: October 22, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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My impression is that if something were to happen, say a Russian SU-27 shot down an F-18, in the immediate surroundings / aftermath, you'd see retaliation - i.e., the other F-18s in the area would fire back in self defense, likely downing some Russians, then both sides would separate.

After that, you'd see an immediate cooling off, with hefty buffer zones between them (assuming there isn't already).

There would be some story about misunderstandings, the need for better coordination, blah blah blah, but nothing wider.

Just look at the numerous incidents in the Cold War of shoot down, border incursions, firefights, etc. None of it went to a big BOOM.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Don't be surprised if Syrian A/C will now be escorted by Russian fighter A/C...


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Life is short. It’s shorter with the wrong gun…
 
Posts: 13796 | Location: VIrtual | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Unlike you I have better things to do than gun forums. Guns are just a safety blanket for sad, overweight, lonely middle aged men that have nothing better to do. Best of luck!


LOL that's rich stooge007 or whatever
 
Posts: 3529 | Registered: August 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
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From news reports it seems like the Russians in Syria have been kind of pushing the envelope of what they can do in terms of putting aircraft in the air. Having Russian flights escort Syrian flights would be a logical thing to do, but can the Russians actually afford to do that?

quote:
Originally posted by Jus228
7 years without being banned and just now flying off the handle? Interesting...

quote:
Originally posted by wcb6092:
srg720 that was post #666 Eek

Man, I've told some folks here about that post number before.
 
Posts: 27291 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Funny Man
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quote:
Originally posted by Rightwire:
That entire area is a tempest in a tea pot that could explode if tipped the wrong way.


I am not sure this means what you think it means......


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Posts: 7093 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: June 29, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
From news reports it seems like the Russians in Syria have been kind of pushing the envelope of what they can do in terms of putting aircraft in the air. Having Russian flights escort Syrian flights would be a logical thing to do, but can the Russians actually afford to do that?
That assumes that the Russian and Syrian airforces are in communication with each other and can coordinate their flight times / operations / objectives / etc.

Seems easy, but you have a language barrier, as well as a C2 network barrier (or just a lack of C2 possibly).

I have no doubt that they could do it for a short period of time, but then it would likely slack off again. Just my opinion though.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posting without pants
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
For all we know, gents, it's someone who has hijacked an old account. Whatever the case, the angry troll is gone. I'm certain that if he were still here, he could tell us why we deserved such a tantrum, not that anyone cares about his personal issues.


It appears TWO things went down in flames this weekend...

I was going to "call for calm" initially, then I read the thread.

He failed to follow the first few rules of Sigfourm "Be Cool, Don't be an Asshole."





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 33287 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
From news reports it seems like the Russians in Syria have been kind of pushing the envelope of what they can do in terms of putting aircraft in the air. Having Russian flights escort Syrian flights would be a logical thing to do, but can the Russians actually afford to do that?
That assumes that the Russian and Syrian airforces are in communication with each other and can coordinate their flight times / operations / objectives / etc.

Seems easy, but you have a language barrier, as well as a C2 network barrier (or just a lack of C2 possibly).

I have no doubt that they could do it for a short period of time, but then it would likely slack off again. Just my opinion though.


My strong guess is there are Russians literally standing 2 feet away from the Syrian C2 elements coordinating efforts.

Kinda like how we embed ANGLICO elements with ground forces...

Great article in the recent WSJ about how the Russians infiltrate hot-spots and affect results without 'officially being involved'. They are masters at it and it's part of the battle doctrine now that they have lost much of their Cold War punch.

--------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8940 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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F-15E shot down another Iranian armed drone today. Another test of the Trump admin's resolve.
 
Posts: 1803 | Location: Austin TX | Registered: October 30, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Legalize the Constitution
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And you thought the Dems looked foolish before--continuing down the "Trump/Russian Collusion" road.

Dangerous world out there right now. Heard yesterday that the United States and Russia had a hotline comm system in place, in and around Syria. When the early warning systems of each country's military detected a potential threat, they could immediately talk to their counterparts--get clarification of intent and avert potential conflict. I'm told the Russians shut the comm system down.


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despite them
 
Posts: 13164 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
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posted Hide Post
quote:
I have no doubt that they could do it for a short period of time, but then it would likely slack off again. Just my opinion though.

Thanks.
 
Posts: 27291 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Interesting article about the engagement

At approximately 18.43hrs local time on June 18, a US Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet operating over Syria shot down a Syrian Arab Air Force (SyAAF) Su-22M4 ‘Fitter’ fighter-bomber near Tabqah, Syria.

The F/A-18E (reported as BuNo 168914/AJ304) was assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 87 ‘Golden Warriors’ (also known as ‘War Party’), which is assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 8.

Its pilot engaged the ‘Fitter’ and initially fired an AIM-9X Sidewinder close-range heat-seeking missile from a range of about half a mile, which was defeated by flares launched by the Su-22 pilot. The Super Hornet then re-engaged and fired an AIM-120 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which hit the ‘Fitter’ despite being fired from relatively close range.

The pilot was able to eject and was later recovered safely, according to local sources.

It marked the first shootdown of a manned fighter by a US aircraft since May 4, 1999, when Lt Col Michael ‘Dog’ Geczy, US Air Force, downed a Serbian MiG-29 with an AIM-120 fired from his F-16CJ during Operation ‘Allied Force’.



However, the engagement poses some interesting questions, not least; how was a 1980s-era ‘Fitter’ able to defeat a cutting-edge US air-to-air heat-seeking missile?

Our good friend and contributor Angad Singh Tweeted this morning a fascinating feature he recalls, written by the great Bill Sweetman.

This Fitter shootdown reminded me of a great 4477 TES story (AIM-9P could reject US but not Soviet flares) https://t.co/qg331jRAZA

— Angad Singh (@zone5aviation) June 22, 2017

http://aviationweek.com/blog/w...percent-switches-did

The linked feature Tweeted by Singh quotes John Manclark, who was the commander of the famous 4477th Test & Evaluation Squadron ‘Red Eagles’ from 1985-87, a top secret unit flying Soviet fighters to train US pilots and evaluate new equipment.

One particular exerpt makes fascinating reading:

“We had 210 maintainers,” Manclark recalled. “They were dedicated, just unbelievable, tech sergeants and master sergeants. The CIA gave us a flare dispenser from a Frogfoot [Su-25] that had been shot down in Afghanistan. We gave it to maintenance – it was just a thing with wires coming out of it. Four hours later they had it operational on a MiG-21.”

That proved to be a very important test. “In 1987 we had the AIM-9P, which was designed to reject flares, and when we used US flares against it would ignore them and go straight for the target. We had the Soviet flares – they were dirty, and none of them looked the same – and the AIM-9P said ‘I love that flare’.

“Why’d that happen? We had designed it to reject American flares. The Soviet flares had different burn time, intensity and separation. The same way, every time we tried to build a SAM simulator, when we got the real thing it wasn’t the same.

“I use the AIM-9P because it is out of the system and I can talk about it. The same thing happened to a lot of things that are still in the system and that I can’t talk about.”

The Syrian ‘Fitter’ in the latest incident appears to have had success with flares against the AIM-9X. There are also reports that the SyAAF ‘Fitters’ had received upgraded flare packs.

From 1979–82 40 new Su-22Ms were delivered to Syria. They flew around 40 sorties during the Lebanon War of 1982: while Israel claimed no fewer than eight shot down, Syria confirmed the loss of only one example.vAdditional batches including 20 Su-22M3Ks were delivered in 1983, followed by no fewer than 42 Su-22M4Ks delivered between 1984 and 1985, while all surviving Su-22Ms were locally upgraded to Su-22M2K standard.

However, the fleet was depleted and by 2014 only around a dozen Su-22M4Ks soldiered on. Iran donated 10 ex-Iraqi Su-22M4Ks to Syria, early in 2015. Tom Cooper wrote recently in Air Forces Monthly: Prior to the recent US strike on Shayrat, the SyAAF included around 30 Su-22M-3, Su-22M-4K and Su-22UM-3K jets with three squadrons; this number is now down to around ten aircraft, just five or six of which are operational.

Ultimately, having defeated the AIM-9X, the ‘Fitter’ wasn’t as successful against the radar-guided AMRAAM. However, this engagement will surely have a few Top Gun and Weapons School graduates scratching their heads and trying to understand exactly how and why a 30 year-old ‘Fitter’, probably in a poor state of condition, beat-off America’s best close-range missile.





Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed.
Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists.
Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed.
 
Posts: 6845 | Location: Atlanta | Registered: April 23, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Shaql:
Interesting article about the engagement

At approximately 18.43hrs local time on June 18, a US Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet operating over Syria shot down a Syrian Arab Air Force (SyAAF) Su-22M4 ‘Fitter’ fighter-bomber near Tabqah, Syria.

The F/A-18E (reported as BuNo 168914/AJ304) was assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 87 ‘Golden Warriors’ (also known as ‘War Party’), which is assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 8.

Its pilot engaged the ‘Fitter’ and initially fired an AIM-9X Sidewinder close-range heat-seeking missile from a range of about half a mile, which was defeated by flares launched by the Su-22 pilot. The Super Hornet then re-engaged and fired an AIM-120 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile), which hit the ‘Fitter’ despite being fired from relatively close range.

The pilot was able to eject and was later recovered safely, according to local sources.

It marked the first shootdown of a manned fighter by a US aircraft since May 4, 1999, when Lt Col Michael ‘Dog’ Geczy, US Air Force, downed a Serbian MiG-29 with an AIM-120 fired from his F-16CJ during Operation ‘Allied Force’.



However, the engagement poses some interesting questions, not least; how was a 1980s-era ‘Fitter’ able to defeat a cutting-edge US air-to-air heat-seeking missile?

Our good friend and contributor Angad Singh Tweeted this morning a fascinating feature he recalls, written by the great Bill Sweetman.

This Fitter shootdown reminded me of a great 4477 TES story (AIM-9P could reject US but not Soviet flares) https://t.co/qg331jRAZA

— Angad Singh (@zone5aviation) June 22, 2017

http://aviationweek.com/blog/w...percent-switches-did

The linked feature Tweeted by Singh quotes John Manclark, who was the commander of the famous 4477th Test & Evaluation Squadron ‘Red Eagles’ from 1985-87, a top secret unit flying Soviet fighters to train US pilots and evaluate new equipment.

One particular exerpt makes fascinating reading:

“We had 210 maintainers,” Manclark recalled. “They were dedicated, just unbelievable, tech sergeants and master sergeants. The CIA gave us a flare dispenser from a Frogfoot [Su-25] that had been shot down in Afghanistan. We gave it to maintenance – it was just a thing with wires coming out of it. Four hours later they had it operational on a MiG-21.”

That proved to be a very important test. “In 1987 we had the AIM-9P, which was designed to reject flares, and when we used US flares against it would ignore them and go straight for the target. We had the Soviet flares – they were dirty, and none of them looked the same – and the AIM-9P said ‘I love that flare’.

“Why’d that happen? We had designed it to reject American flares. The Soviet flares had different burn time, intensity and separation. The same way, every time we tried to build a SAM simulator, when we got the real thing it wasn’t the same.

“I use the AIM-9P because it is out of the system and I can talk about it. The same thing happened to a lot of things that are still in the system and that I can’t talk about.”

The Syrian ‘Fitter’ in the latest incident appears to have had success with flares against the AIM-9X. There are also reports that the SyAAF ‘Fitters’ had received upgraded flare packs.

From 1979–82 40 new Su-22Ms were delivered to Syria. They flew around 40 sorties during the Lebanon War of 1982: while Israel claimed no fewer than eight shot down, Syria confirmed the loss of only one example.vAdditional batches including 20 Su-22M3Ks were delivered in 1983, followed by no fewer than 42 Su-22M4Ks delivered between 1984 and 1985, while all surviving Su-22Ms were locally upgraded to Su-22M2K standard.

However, the fleet was depleted and by 2014 only around a dozen Su-22M4Ks soldiered on. Iran donated 10 ex-Iraqi Su-22M4Ks to Syria, early in 2015. Tom Cooper wrote recently in Air Forces Monthly: Prior to the recent US strike on Shayrat, the SyAAF included around 30 Su-22M-3, Su-22M-4K and Su-22UM-3K jets with three squadrons; this number is now down to around ten aircraft, just five or six of which are operational.

Ultimately, having defeated the AIM-9X, the ‘Fitter’ wasn’t as successful against the radar-guided AMRAAM. However, this engagement will surely have a few Top Gun and Weapons School graduates scratching their heads and trying to understand exactly how and why a 30 year-old ‘Fitter’, probably in a poor state of condition, beat-off America’s best close-range missile.


It defeated a single missile. I'm not to worried. I'm glad it was a short range engagement...now lets see the damn hud footage.
 
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