I got no dog in this fight. Prior military, work at a major, I usually disagree with guppy too. However, I agree with most of what he said. We are told not to call. Let them track you down. I love police, but nothing good ever came from talking to them either. Everything you say, can and will, etc.

We get that phone number, we call company and let them deal with it, which is effectively like calling your lawyer.

My advice? Worth exactly what you paid for it, don’t call.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:

Again, you clearly have it all figured out. I'm not going to get into a dick measuring contest with you because in all your stories you seem to like and invite confrontation. You are obviously a big bad alpha dog and nobody can convince you otherwise.

Please. You stated "If you get told to call, you've already violated an FAR." That sentence implies that (in your opinion), ATC can do no wrong.

I have cited two ATC screw-ups in which I had some sort of involvement, both of them documented. Disagreeing with you on a factual basis makes me a big bad alpha dog? OK, so be it. I used to think that I was just a regular member of the pack, but alpha dog sounds like it could be fun, so I'll give it a try.

By the way, if you want more examples of ATC screw-ups, I have a bunch of them, personal experience, at KSFB -- the Orlando-Sanford airport. During the time that I was based there, while construction equipment was rampaging around at X04 (Orlando-Apopka, Our Little Airport), I caught a few errors from Clearance Delivery, VFR Class C and IFR clearances that were clearly wrong. No harm done, as the inconsistencies were detected prior to taxi. I also had a few bad calls by tower controllers, with potential harm. I asserted myself and a different controller's voice on the frequency over-rode the initial ATC bad instructions; this leads me to believe that there were trainees at KSFB and the over-riding voice was a trainer or supervisor. I don't know that for a fact, but the evidence seems to point in that direction.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Disagreeing with you on a factual basis makes me a big bad alpha dog? OK, so be it. I used to think that I was just a regular member of the pack, but alpha dog sounds like it could be fun, so I'll give it a try.

I'm quite certain he was addressing sns3guppy.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

Disagreeing with you on a factual basis makes me a big bad alpha dog? OK, so be it. I used to think that I was just a regular member of the pack, but alpha dog sounds like it could be fun, so I'll give it a try.

I'm quite certain he was addressing sns3guppy.

Ah, maybe so. He did not specify, and I had called him on his erroneous assertion that "If you get told to call, you've already violated an FAR," so I inferred that he was addressing me.

Damn, I thought I was going to be an alpha dog.

V-Tail, I love your stories and I consider you an alpha dog. At least an honorary one.

Ok guys, enough bitchin big dog-itis, time for a slight thread drift.

Todays E-4 flying is call sign Murca01, how cool is that for July 4? It just overflew OKC.

Thank you to the US Military and our Commander In Chief President Trump, always on duty, always watching, and keeping us safe.

quote:

V-Tail, I love your stories and I consider you an alpha dog.

Thank you. That's one more thing I can cross off my bucket list.

Gene -- I have to plead ignorance on "E-4" in the context that you're using it. Quick explanation or pointer to a reference please?

Air Force 747. I think technically the airborne command type not Air Force one type. I’m just a dumb navy guy though, they don’t let us near the fancy types.

V Tail you certainly are the alpha type in my book!

^^^ I'm referring to the airplane, sometimes referred to as Nightwatch, the military flies.

It's the flying military command post, posed to take charge of our military and defense in a worse case scenario.

It's a highly modified 747, capable of inflight refueling, about the same as Air Force One.

You can google "E4 airplane" to read more about it.

Anyway, I thought todays callsign Murca01 was awesome.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I was thinking, "E-4? I was E-4 (third class petty officer) when I graduated from Navy guided missile school, but I didn't have a call sign."

quote:

but I didn't have a call sign

If you had, it would have been A-dog.

An E-4 was the command plane Darren McGavin was on in By Dawn's Early Light. Also featured in The Sum of All Fears.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Ah, thanks for the explanation. I was thinking, "E-4? I was E-4 (third class petty officer) when I graduated from Navy guided missile school, but I didn't have a call sign."

Wait a minute, I thought you were an Air Force Lieutenant Commander.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Ah, thanks for the explanation. I was thinking, "E-4? I was E-4 (third class petty officer) when I graduated from Navy guided missile school, but I didn't have a call sign."

I'm kind of surprised you didn't get the reference, being a pilot and all

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
It's a highly modified 747, capable of inflight refueling, about the same as Air Force One.

Air Force One is only AF1 when the president is aboard; any USAF aircraft that the president is aboard becomes Air Force 1; it's a mobile callsign that follows the president, no the aircraft.

The E4 and the VC-25 aircraft presently recognized in public as "Air Force One" are upgraded 747 Classics; they're old airplanes. They use the same cockpit layout and instrumentation as Kalitta's retired classic 747's.

Those have all been scrapped. Too outdated.

The USAF went to Kalitta a decade ago to see about renting time in their 747 simulator; it was the most advanced Classic 747 sim in the world (and is one of the only ones left), and it the same cockpit configuration. It was also in use around the clock, with no spare time available day or night.

They've still got the sim, but scrapped the aircraft, due to age and inefficiency.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:
Again, you clearly have it all figured out.

All? No. A fair amount, for damn sure. It's called experience. Get some.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:
I'm not going to get into a dick measuring contest with you

That's just as well. You'd probably win. An employer has never asked, neither has a client. It's just not a metric we use. We stick to facts, whether it's refusing to guess at fuel, time, or distance, or legal issues, such as regulations, violations, and calls to the tower. Pretty damn important stuff.

^^^^^^. Grumpy Guppy Guy, you need to get laid. Quit being such a Grouchy Guppy!

Give it a rest, will ya?

Some one at Moffat Field has a B747 sim. I flew it back in the 90's. They used it for research, but they also rented it out at the time too to different companies...

quote:

Originally posted by coloradohunter44:
Some one at Moffat Field has a B747 sim. I flew it back in the 90's. They used it for research, but they also rented it out at the time too to different companies...

NASA runs a 747-400 simulator at Ames, at Moffett field. There are a number of simulators there.

The Classic's are long in the tooth and few and far between, especially as there are only a hand full of 747-200/300's left. Perhaps five or so left in service?

I parked one of the last -100's years ago; it was the last flight it ever made, and was cut up about a year later.

.

The FAA Aviation Safety Reporting Program (ASRP) administered by NASA allows a pilot to self report a screwup. This removes any punitive action by the FAA, but I don't think this case falls within the program because the pilot refused to leave after being told they did not have a clearance.

While initial penetration into controlled airspace may have been inadvertent, remaining was deliberate. Self reporting via ASRS would shield the pilot from any enforcement action for entering, I think remaining after the fact could be a second violation that would not be shielded because of his refusal to depart the area.

www.ASRS.ARC.NASA.gov/overview/immunity.html

Every pilot should be aware of this program, as you can file as many reports as you want and because reports are confidential the FAA investigator does not have access to read your report.

Fly from MYF to LAX and back, submit a report that your left main gear may have been low on air. Weeks later you find out LAX tower has you for something you didn't even know about and you have that receipt in your pocket as a get out of jail card.

Flying in SoCal with all the controlled airspace is not the same as flying in other parts of the country.

.
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ASRS does not shield a pilot from punitive acton if

• the infraction was deliberate, or
  
  
• if there is criminal activity involved (for example, ASRS won't help if you're importing cocaine).