I'm sure it varies a bit from state to state, but in Missouri you must make a permanent improvement to a property to file a lien. Mowing the grass wouldn't count. Planting a tree would.

You can't "write it off your taxes", because there was no income to write it off against. You can deduct the same expenses you usually do: Fuel, insurance, mileage on your truck, etc., even though you were not paid.

You should also be very careful when it comes to public shaming. There are laws that pertain to debt collection, and deadbeats seem to know how to use them to their advantage. You run afoul of the rules here, and you may find yourself in much deeper trouble.

I'm a pretty vindictive guy when it comes to people who intend to screw me. I have used small claims court for relatively small amounts, and gone through all of the effort to garnish wages and chase it down. That will also cause it to go on the public record as well as their credit reports. It's about the best you can do when it comes to public shaming while remaining in the clear.

quote:

I have friends that also mow in the area (we don't compete) and they will eventually get a call from her.

Those in my industry do this regularly. If we have people that are trying to pull some sort of scam, or not paying as agreed, we let each other know.

Why not take her to small claims court? Do you have any evidence of your agreement with here, and/or evidence you did the work?

I'm not saying you'll ever see the money, but maybe you can get some piece of mind if the judge orders her to pay you the amount owed.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123: Is it stooping? I have friends that also mow in the area (we don't compete) and they will eventually get a call from her.

I suppose you can mention it as a matter of normal business concerns/discussions- but not in any manner of "embarrassing" the person.

quote:

Originally posted by AH.74:

quote:

Originally posted by mark123: Is it stooping? I have friends that also mow in the area (we don't compete) and they will eventually get a call from her.

I suppose you can mention it as a matter of normal business concerns/discussions- but not in any manner of "embarrassing" the person.

I don't see anything wrong with telling your friends about your experience as a warning. That is trying to protect your friends though, not trying to shame anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by AH.74:

quote:

Originally posted by mark123: Is it stooping? I have friends that also mow in the area (we don't compete) and they will eventually get a call from her.

I suppose you can mention it as a matter of normal business concerns/discussions- but not in any manner of "embarrassing" the person.

I don't see anything wrong with telling your friends about your experience as a warning. That is trying to protect your friends though, not trying to shame anyone.

So, basically leave out the words "dirt bag", "hood rat", "rotten whore", et al.?

Had a guy stiff me a little over $200 on a job. I asked a lawyer customer of mine what I should do and he told me to just write it off as stupid life tax or as a good deed done for someone.

He said let me see your written contract. What no written contract just a agreed on price and a hand shake. Well you have two options

1 Get the forms for civil court as Tennessee doesn't have small claims court. Fill out forms and take off work and turn in the forms to court clerk and pay about $120 in filing fee. Wait for Sheriff to serve papers or pay a private process server.
Take off work again and go to court and I may get a judgment against that person. The judgment is just a piece of paper that a judge agrees that person owes me the $200.
Now I have to take off work and try to garnish his wages or put a lien on the property.

why spend several hundred dollars and loss wages trying to collect $200.

2 option 2 was don't damage my soul against that person for $200. The hate and ill will towards that person would just damage me and bring bad karma upon myself.

Nothing you can do will be worth the time and trouble it will take.

First beware of the federal Debt Collection Practices Act, and I would expect your state has a similar statute. The penalties for violating these can be severe. These prohibit harassment, among other acts. I will leave it to you to do a little research about what is allowed and what isn't, and what the penalties are.

I think your chances of getting the police or DA interested in charging her are vanishingly small. They have far better things to do with their time and our tax dollars. If the local cops pursued this stuff, your local taxes would have to double.

You could sue her in small claims court. And spend $150 and 4 to 5 hours to collect (maybe) $161. It won't be contempt if she fails to pay. We abolished debtor's prisons at least 250 years ago.

You could sell the account to a collection agency. Maybe, for $10. Probably not, as they aren't interested in anything so small and unlikely to be collected.

If you were paying me for this advice you would have already spent $161 getting it.

Some customers are going to stiff you if you offer credit. It is part of doing business that way. If your credit accounts are that small, then collecting them IS NOT GOING TO BE WORTH IT. Doing for the principle of it is foolish. You are in business to make money, not police the world against deadbeats.

So, get over it and don't offer credit. Listen to kg5388.

Mark, I do not know what you current relationship is with her. Sounds like based on your last post it may not be good.

If it hasn't turned into a pissing match. Maybe something in trade. Yea and I know how some will take that comment. But maybe she could trade something she has that you could either use, trade or sell if she truly does not have the $.

I have been in your shoes and yes it did piss me off that the guy duped me. When I conforted him he just blew me off. Eventually you just have to move on. Right it off as a learning experience and carry on. Don't wear it.

Are there any Attorney Free Advice numbers in your area that you can call?

In this case, I would let go. Not worth it. The stress will take a toll on your health.

I have had deadbeats get to me also,best to just move on and not let it drag you to their level.
I been away from that contracting work for 20 plus,social media was not invented but some suggested this and notifying your associates in the buisness is a dandy idea.
I have been stung on a complete roof job once,a partial payment on a kitchen remodel,both were neighbors on a handshake,after that it was a signed contract and signed changed orders with 25% non refundable money up front.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Nothing you can do will be worth the time and trouble it will take.

First beware of the federal Debt Collection Practices Act, and I would expect your state has a similar statute. The penalties for violating these can be severe. These prohibit harassment, among other acts. I will leave it to you to do a little research about what is allowed and what isn't, and what the penalties are.

I think your chances of getting the police or DA interested in charging her are vanishingly small. They have far better things to do with their time and our tax dollars. If the local cops pursued this stuff, your local taxes would have to double.

You could sue her in small claims court. And spend $150 and 4 to 5 hours to collect (maybe) $161. It won't be contempt if she fails to pay. We abolished debtor's prisons at least 250 years ago.

You could sell the account to a collection agency. Maybe, for $10. Probably not, as they aren't interested in anything so small and unlikely to be collected.

If you were paying me for this advice you would have already spent $161 getting it.

Some customers are going to stiff you if you offer credit. It is part of doing business that way. If your credit accounts are that small, then collecting them IS NOT GOING TO BE WORTH IT. Doing for the principle of it is foolish. You are in business to make money, not police the world against deadbeats.

So, either get over it and don't offer credit. Listen to kg5388.

I had a much larger bill due for my services a few years back and JHE gave me the same advice. I just dropped it, but I still want to bitch slap the guy every time I think about it.

Karma has a way of stalking these low life scum.

Spell "DEADBEAT" in fertilizer on her lawn in big letters.

How far can I go to collect a debt?

To the ends of the earth, but you'll get blisters.

In my own personal experience, even if you win a small claims case (mine was a default judgment), it can be hell getting the $$$. You know, blood from a turnip.

I agree with JHE to the extent of dropping it, you should be able to write it off as bad debt against your income, it doesn't have to be dollar to dollar as was stated because if it did, you would have been paid and not have a debt

However the Fair Debt act doesn't apply to creditors, and you are the creditor, it only applies to third party collection agents, attorney. So you can do just about whatever you want to collect, call her every day, twice, three times a day, leave a message, write her letters, stand in the front yard give her the chack chack speech, (ok that might get you arrested) still as a creditor you can go after your funds.

For a couple hundred bucks, probably not worth the effort.

You could drop by each time you mow the neighbors yard, knock on the door and ask
for a payment, $10, $20 or find a local small
collection agency and turn it over, you'll pay them a Pct to call mail and go after her, you just go on an work.

quote:

Originally posted by dusty3030:
For that kind of money you'll never recoup it. Write it off as a bad debt (in this case it is picture perfect definition of a bad debt that can be written off) is the best advice both financially and spiritually.
The time it takes you to try to recoup it is better spent on something else. Going after her at this point would be for the sole purpose of vindication or retribution - neither or which will be as satisfying as moving on.
Let it go. Put it out of your mind. She has most likely spent her life and most likely will spend the rest of her life begging / borrowing / stealing.

Your advice is probably good. Please let me stipulate that up front.

But, having been in Mark123's shoes, where somebody owed me a small sum (in my case it has been for rent) and it became clear to me that the person never had any intention of paying what he owed, skipped with malice of forethought, and was smugly laughing about it, I can tell you that the satisfaction attached to every cent collected is HUGE. Talk about "spiritual" satisfaction delivered when justice is done! HUGE satisfaction in seeing the shock that the ass-hat experiences when he/she doesn't get away with it, as others have let him/her do. It's a huge hassle, but I like to think that maybe the lesson learned will make the ass-hat less inclined to screw their next mark.

I understand writing off bad debt, and I have done that, too. There have been instances in which somebody, due to circumstances that were inescapable, simply did not have either the money or the ability to get the money that they owed me. Instances in which, in retrospect, I should've known better than to rent to that person to start with. Instances in which the person really didn't intend to screw me, but it just worked out that way. In those instances I have walked away from the debt owed to me. But it's entirely another thing when the person who owes you has the ability to pay and is deliberately, gleefully, screwing you. I hate thieves!

You don't need a lawyer to go to small claims court, which is where you'll pursue the debt if it's under $5K.

Yes it costs you many man-hours, and if you put a dollar value on your time then, no, taking the matter to small claims court doesn't make financial sense. But are you doing this to make money, or are you doing it to achieve justice? Think about this: If the last guy that the ass-hat screwed had pursued satisfaction, maybe the ass-hat wouldn't have gleefully targeted you. Bad people do this kind of stuff because they know they can get away with it. As a result good people suffer. Isn't correcting that worth using your spare time to make it right?

Yes, you have to pay court fees up front (the cost of which you are allowed to add to the amount you collect).

Yes, just getting the judgement doesn't mean that the ass-hat will pay you. If he/she doesn't pay, then you have to ask yourself whether it's worth it to you to take the next step, which requires many more man hours and fees paid to both the court and the sheriff. But you got a judgement, which means that the court agrees with you, that you are right. So are you going to let the ass-hat get away with it?

The next step, after you get a judgement and the ass-hat doesn't pay, has options. To figure out which option you want to pursue, you may have to get the court (more fees required) to make the ass-hat come to court again to answer your questions about where his/her assets are, ie: does he own any cars, own any livestock, have any bank accounts, where does he/she work, where does he/she bank and what are the account numbers, what's his SSN, and so forth. Once you have that info you can start the process of seizing the ass hat's assets.

Getting this far has been a tremendous hassle for both you and the ass-hat. About this point the ass-hat begins to realize that you are fucking back and not going away, which is likely an experience he/she hasn't had before. The ass-hat may offer to settle at this point; I've taken that offer when this has happened. It looked like this: "Hey, I get it that you aren't going to let this die. I owe you $2,200. I can get you a money order for $1,500 this afternoon. Will you call that good?"

One option you can pursue is that you can get the court to direct the sheriff (more fees required) to seize property that the ass-hat owns (like a car, or a horse) and auction it off. If you go that route then you wind up getting a check from the sheriff for what's owed, and the ass-hat gets whatever is left over.

Another option is that you can get the court to put a lien on the ass-hat's paycheck (if the ass-hat has a job).

Another option, one I used against a guy who runs a tattoo parlor in Pocatello, is to get the sheriff (more fees required) to conduct what is essentially an armed robbery. The court calls it a "till tap". This is where the sheriff has a couple of armed deputies in uniform walk into the shop, open up the cash register, and take out the amount that the ass-hat owes you. Talk about spiritual satisfaction! Talk about showing the ass-hat some shock and awe! If you want to deliver a big "Fuck You!" to the ass-hat, this is definitely the way to go.

Going either way takes several weeks, months even, but will leave the ass-hat amazed that he/she didn't get away with it.

So, in summary, if the ass-hat has pissed you off enough, you can get satisfaction and teach him/her a lesson, to wit: "Be damned careful about who you choose as your next mark, or better yet, quit stealing altogether." If he/she has just annoyed you and the effort required to get satisfaction just isn't worth it to you, then walk away and let the ass-hat go screw his/her next target.

If you are after your money, you aren't going to get it back.

If you are after the principal of the thing, then you will go in the hole with less than a 50/50 chance of winning.

Do you have a baseball bat?

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

However the Fair Debt act doesn't apply to creditors, and you are the creditor, it only applies to third party collection agents, attorney. So you can do just about whatever you want to collect, call her every day, twice, three times a day, leave a message, write her letters, stand in the front yard give her the chack chack speech, (ok that might get you arrested) still as a creditor you can go after your funds.

That is true of the federal debt collection act, and thanks for correcting me on that. It may or may not be true of any state statute.

SapperSteel's description of the collection process is generally accurate, but each state will different processes and may allow different of these remedies.

In Texas, for example, almost all of a person's personal property is exempt from seizure - car, household goods, etc. Some isn't, but most of what ordinary people own is exempt. Texas allows no liens on your house for this purpose and no wage garnishment. I can garnish your bank account, but that is a separate proceeding - it is a lawsuit against the bank, in essence, and full of traps for the unwary. Texas protects debtors to an undue degree, but the point is that you will have to learn what it takes in your jurisdiction.

If you get enough satisfaction out this to make it worth your while, please go ahead. I would find the many hours and hundreds (or thousands) of dollars in costs to make it not worth it unless someone owed me thousands of dollars. And I do this for a living. (Which may just make me acutely aware of the costs involved.)