This morning I received an email from my Internet provider (Verizon FiOS). It touted an "upgrade" to my service, something they refer to as a "Self-Organizing Network" (SON). In essence, the two different speed networks I have, 2.4GHz and 5.0GHz are being merged, and now I will only see on Service Set Identifier (SSID) instead of two. According to Verizon, this will allow my devices to automatically use the best bandwidth they are capable of using.

According to the email, "A software upgrade was recently pushed to your router allowing you to create a Self-Organizing Network (SON). This enhancement lets your devices move seamlessly between 2.4GHz and 5GHz Wi-Fi signals, ultimately optimizing your devices Wi-Fi connection."

I have an innate distrust of Internet Service Providers, having experienced ineptitude at epic levels from every one of them over the past 25 years. Thus, my first thought upon reading this was, "Who benefits from this, me or Verizon?" In the back of my mind I have a sense that this "upgrade" is actually designed to allow Verizon to throttle back my Internet service when the load on my local subnet gets too high. Already, I have at least one "burp" in my service EVERY DAY!

Right now, I am conducting day-long online trainings, and I'm on my computer connected through my router to the Internet. It's how I'm earning my paycheck. I'm not going to reconfigure my network like changing horses in mid-stream. Verizon might be trying to push me into its "latest and greatest," but I'm going to drag my feet.

Anyone else get such a notice? What are your thoughts about this?

Same thing, but no real concerns. The 5GHz signal from my router was always a little sketchy anyway.

This probably has much more to do with the system-wide rollout of the FIOS One boxes. What I've read/seen about them sounds pretty impressive and I'm about to upgrade (as soon as I get the right CSR on livechat who will knock off the $50 "upgrade fee" for me).

-Rob

I just enabled this at my house on my own wireless router. Instead of having an "A" and "A-5G" networks I have one network and it determines which to use.

Keeps me from having to decide which network to put people on in my home.

I don't see anything nefarious with it...

different provider, i've got the panoramic combo modem/router from cox, which shows both 2.4/5.0 on the admin login page.

it's worthwhile for me, some of my devices are 10 years old.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
Thus, my first thought upon reading this was, "Who benefits from this, me or Verizon?" In the back of my mind I have a sense that this "upgrade" is actually designed to allow Verizon to throttle back my Internet service when the load on my local subnet gets too high. Already, I have at least one "burp" in my service EVERY DAY!

How your WiFi is configured has absolutely nothing to do with Verizon's ability to monitor and/or throttle your internet service.

please post the make and model number of the router. This way we can see if this is even possible.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
please post the make and model number of the router. This way we can see if this is even possible.

It's a FiOS G1100 that I own.

quote:

According to the email, "A software upgrade was recently pushed to your router allowing you to create a Self-Organizing Network (SON). This enhancement lets your devices move seamlessly between 2.4GHz and 5GHz Wi-Fi signals, ultimately optimizing your devices Wi-Fi connection."

FWIW, there is no such thing a self-organizing network.
Configuring both the 5.0 and 2.4 ghz band with the same ID is a common practice.
Nothing new here.
The ability to prefer a band is called "band steering".
It is done to push a wi-fi client to use that band.
The decision to pick a band by the client is the decision of the client aka laptop, phone, device etc and NOT the decision of the AP.
You can however configure the AP to make a band more enticing by adjusting the power levels etc.
Also you can configure the client to prefer a band in the network setting if their network setting application so allows it.
Windows laptop does for example but an Android phone may not have that fine of configurability in their app.

YMMV

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
FWIW, there is no such thing a self-organizing network.

This is neither here nor there with regard to this discussion, but there has been significant research going on for 10+ years on mesh networks that automatically reconfigure network topology, e.g. across a large group of mobile drones where the relative positions of the network nodes (the drones) can change over time.

^^^ Shhh! Don't tell him about Software Defined Networks, it'll blow his mind!

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
https://www.verizon.com/suppor...network-extender/son

Sounds like their made-up term for MESH which the benefit is roaming from location to location not really a 2.4 vs 5.0 activity.
Again your wi-fi client is the primary for this function.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
This morning I received an email from my Internet provider (Verizon FiOS). It touted an "upgrade" to my service, something they refer to as a "Self-Organizing Network" (SON). In essence, the two different speed networks I have, 2.4GHz and 5.0GHz are being merged, and now I will only see on Service Set Identifier (SSID) instead of two. According to Verizon, this will allow my devices to automatically use the best bandwidth they are capable of using.

It's real and it's nothing new. What's new is Verizon's terminology. It's more properly known as "band steering." The access point determines which of the two bands, 2.4GHz or 5GHz, is best for each client based on each band's congestion and the parameters of the client's connection on each band (mainly signal-to-noise ratio [SNR]).

Access points have had the capability of doing this for years.

The problem with band steering is some WiFi clients don't tolerate it well. TBH: In simple home WLANS I think it'd probably be more trouble than it's worth. I never enable it on our home network.

Now, where I used to work we had four (4) APs spread throughout the building, and somewhere on the order of two dozen clients or so--the vast majority of which were laptops. So all APs had the same SSID, the same SSID on both bands, and band steering enabled on the APs. This enabled seamless roaming from AP-to-AP, and for band steering to optimize each connection at any particular point in time. In that particular case the advantages outweighed the disadvantages.

My understanding is The 2.4 only comes into effect when farther than 10-14'.
another way to say it is the cable box or Wi-Fi tv gets the bigger connection in most cases where they are mostly close to router.

5 ghz is very much dependent upon the distance of the device from the router and more prone to interence from walls, floors...


https://support.spirit.com.au/...2-4G-and-5G-on-Wi-Fi

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:
Same thing, but no real concerns. The 5GHz signal from my router was always a little sketchy anyway.


-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Haveme1or2:
My understanding is The 2.4 only comes into effect when farther than 10-14'.

Not really. 5GHz can work well far beyond that. It depends upon a variety of factors. Location of the AP is a big one. Most home APs are not optimally located.

Our AP is centrally located on the ceiling of our (1300 sqft. ranch) house. We get solid 5GHz connectivity throughout the house, into all four corners of the basement, out on the back patio, and even throughout the attached garage.

The only devices connected via 2.4GHz are those that don't have 5GHz capability.

quote:

Originally posted by Haveme1or2:
My understanding is The 2.4 only comes into effect when farther than 10-14'.
another way to say it is the cable box or Wi-Fi tv gets the bigger connection in most cases where they are mostly close to router.

What is a "bigger connection"?

The one with the best bandwidth?

My 5ghz connections allow higher bandwidth connections than my 2.4ghz connections close to my WAPs. As distance from my WAPs increases, the bandwidth of the 5ghz connections decreases at a faster rate than the 2.4ghz connections such that the 2.4ghz connection will be faster than the 5ghz one.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The one with the best bandwidth?

My 5ghz connections allow higher bandwidth connections than my 2.4ghz connections close to my WAPs. As distance from my WAPs increases, the bandwidth of the 5ghz connections decreases at a faster rate than the 2.4ghz connections such that the 2.4ghz connection will be faster than the 5ghz one.

Not sure if you are referring to RSSI, network connection speed or throughput as they are all different.
No matter what you say is in general correct that distance from the AP all of the above will decrease.
What affects the 5.0 band more than 2.4 is when there are physical objects to reflect/diffuse/diffract the signal.
It is why for the optimum network we install more AP's and turn the output down to an acceptable level so the client and the AP can have a civil (my made up term) conversation.
In dual band environments we turn the 2.4 down much further than 5.0.
Of course physical placement is critical.
Additionally, the use of dual band with the same SSID and band steering is becoming less popular or necessary.
Now days there are much more 5.0 devices and it is a higher performing band.
It has much less interference and lower noise.
Additionally there are more channels to isolate from these issues.
But yes as you get farther away the signal denigrates.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by Haveme1or2:
My understanding is The 2.4 only comes into effect when farther than 10-14'.
another way to say it is the cable box or Wi-Fi tv gets the bigger connection in most cases where they are mostly close to router.

What is a "bigger connection"?

If we're taking 2.5 and 5. ..... One would think ....5. Our at least I would.