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Jesse Ventura appeal denied by SCOTUS in Chris Kyle suit. Login/Join 
Leatherneck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Tell me honestly, if the situation was reversed and Ventura wrote a book saying that Chris Kyle was shit talking dead SEALs, would you say Chris Kyle should just let it go?
Let me put it this way. I've been honored to have met one 'teams' guy in my lifetime. He thoroughly impressed me as being both very intelligent, and very pragmatic. I would wager that if the bad guys killed one of his guys, and they couldn't mount an operation that killed the bad guys without them loosing a proportional number of their own, they'd opt to stand down until a better option presented itself.

So in your hypothetical, if Kyle was wronged by Ventura, and a lawsuit would only result in further damage to his (Kyle's) reputation, then 'yes', I would hope Kyle would verbally denounce the lie Ventura told, and walk away.

And having read Kyle's book, I doubt the dust up with Ventura played a major role in the success of the book. Much like in real life, Ventura wasn't that significant to the story.


From reading your posts here I know you are a reasonbley intelligent person. So I feel like the fault is mine that I am not getting my point across here. I am not great expressing my opinion via text so I am quite sure of it.

Let me try this way: The majority of people who think Ventura is damaging his reputation are those who hated him already, and would hate him no matter what. You already admitted that you didn't like him before this entire incident. I will go out on a limb and assume that is true of the majority of people posting here. It is true in my case for sure. I just think that pre-determined bias is interfering with otherwise extremely reasonable and intelligent peoples ability to see this for what it is.

If the lie was simply that Ventura was a loud mouth and they got in a fight and that Kyle kicked his ass for it I would agree that Ventura should probably let that go. But that is not the lie. Kyle said that Ventura stated that the SEALs "Deserved to lose a few" because of his stance against the war. If someone told a lie and said they beat me up, okay whatever i am not going to go too far to disprove that. But if someone asserted that I ever said I was okay with some service-members dying because of my politics I can't imagine the lengths I would go to in order to make them admit that they are a liar.

For all I know Ventura is happy when an American service-member dies. But if he didn't say it then Kyle is a piece of shit for saying he did. And Ventura, as much as I hate him, deserves vindication for that.

As for your point about this part not playing a role in the success of the book; as DMF posted above the publisher sure thought it was good for book sales. Whether it had any effect we can never know but they are the experts and they think it did.




Georgia Carry Member Calguns Foundation Member Second Amendment Foundation Member NRA Lifetime Member

Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets. -bionic218 04-02-2014

 
Posts: 11977 | Location: Georgia | Registered: May 07, 2008Report This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
. . . I doubt the dust up with Ventura played a major role in the success of the book.
The problem is there is evidence that it was very important to the sales of the book.

The link I previously provided:
http://www.twincities.com/2014...ried-to-downplay-it/

Here's some additional info:
http://www.slate.com/articles/...t_jesse_ventura.html

. . . During the first trial, Ventura’s attorneys uncovered records of HarperCollins’ negligence in fact-checking Kyle’s book, as well as evidence that HarperCollins specifically touted the Ventura story to drum up publicity. . .

. . . HarperCollins editor Peter Hubbard wrote in an email that the publicity from the story was “priceless.” HarperCollins publicist Sharon Rosenblum described the Ventura kerfuffle as “hot hot hot,” immediately arranging for Kyle to retell the tale on The O’Reilly Factor. Sales of American Sniper—which, up to that point, were fairly modest—spiked dramatically, apparently in conjunction with interest in the Ventura story. . ."


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 11902 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Report This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DMF:
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
. . . I doubt the dust up with Ventura played a major role in the success of the book.
The problem is there is evidence that it was very important to the sales of the book.

The link I previously provided:
http://www.twincities.com/2014...ried-to-downplay-it/

Here's some additional info:
http://www.slate.com/articles/...t_jesse_ventura.html

. . . During the first trial, Ventura’s attorneys uncovered records of HarperCollins’ negligence in fact-checking Kyle’s book, as well as evidence that HarperCollins specifically touted the Ventura story to drum up publicity. . .

. . . HarperCollins editor Peter Hubbard wrote in an email that the publicity from the story was “priceless.” HarperCollins publicist Sharon Rosenblum described the Ventura kerfuffle as “hot hot hot,” immediately arranging for Kyle to retell the tale on The O’Reilly Factor. Sales of American Sniper—which, up to that point, were fairly modest—spiked dramatically, apparently in conjunction with interest in the Ventura story. . ."
Ok, given thsi information, I will humbly retract my last statement about Ventura's impact on book sales.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 25258 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
From reading your posts here I know you are a reasonbley intelligent person.
I don't know if the spelling of reasonably was intended as a pun, but I did find it humorous. Smile And adding a qualifier to the term 'intelligent', well, I think I'll just leave that one be.
quote:
Let me try this way: The majority of people who think Ventura is damaging his reputation are those who hated him already, and would hate him no matter what.
I don't know if that's true or not. My 90 year old ex-military father had no real strong feelings about Ventura either way when we chatted about this nonsense some time ago, but he did tell me he thought Ventura he was an ass for suing Kyle's widow. You and I know that's not an accurate representation of what is actually occurring, but it is a result of how the media has framed the issue for the uninformed viewer. As I noted previously, this is no longer about reality anymore, but rather, perception, and the media has painted that narrative against Ventura.

Ultimately, did Ventura damage himself in my eyes for bringing this lawsuit? Probably not given my previous opinion of the man. However, I truly believe he has, and continues to do damage to himself with low information media consumers.
quote:
For all I know Ventura is happy when an American service-member dies. But if he didn't say it then Kyle is a piece of shit for saying he did.
I think the dead deserve a bit more respect than that. Kyle may have indeed done some spinning of the truth, and we can reject and hold him accountable for that, but the man also did a lot of good in his life.
quote:
And Ventura, as much as I hate him, deserves vindication for that.
And on that I think we're going to have to agreed to disagree. Given where this thing stands and the attention its gotten, no verdict or settlement is ever going to give Ventura what he's looking for.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 25258 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
Leatherneck
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quote:
I think the dead deserve a bit more respect than that. Kyle may have indeed done some spinning of the truth, and we can reject and hold him accountable for that, but the man also did a lot of good in his life.


Dying does not excuse what someone did in life.

"Spinning the truth"? That sounds like when politicians say they "misspoke" Wink Stating that Ventura was celebrating the deaths of Navy SEALs is not spinning the truth because there is no truth to it. It is a disgusting lie.

Kyle did a lot of good things but based on the face he chose to present to the public he was not a good person. Perhaps if he was alive he could justify what he said but unfortunately one of the many dangers of lying is that sometimes that becomes your legacy. And like it or not his legacy will always be tainted by his penchant for telling "Texas tall tales" as one member called them, and one very disgusting lie.




Georgia Carry Member Calguns Foundation Member Second Amendment Foundation Member NRA Lifetime Member

Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets. -bionic218 04-02-2014

 
Posts: 11977 | Location: Georgia | Registered: May 07, 2008Report This Post
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Picture of nhracecraft
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quote:
Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
This is a difficult one for me to a certain degree. Taya is awesome, and when last I saw her, doing fine. Chris, I think, got caught up a bit in the "Texas Tall Tale" draw which is a common affliction to many from the Republic. I really, truly wish he hadn't, but feel in my heart he did. Did something happen at McPs? Probably. I wasn't there that night. I always kinda tolerated JV, but feel he missed his true opportunity here. Yes, I understand his rights etc.. I understand suing once CK made the interview comments. If CK hadn't then likely this wouldn't have gone anywhere. As JHE has said, JV has, and continues to hurt himself from fighting this fight and continuing this fight. There was a well written interview article a year or 2 ago about JV now being lost to the community, and all that it has cost him. Imho, rights aside, once Chris was murdered, if JV would have said, "look, this didn't happen this way, and I know I would prevail in court, but Chris is gone and there can never be closure between us on this. I'm not going to continue this because of the stress and duress it puts Taya under as she raises their children" then I think his reputation, and his bankability as an actor, speaker etc, would have improved greatly. That's just me and how I choose to live and see the world.

Bottom line, humans were involved, and humans, even admirable and heroic ones, are imperfect and fallible.

^^^^ This....Very well said right there!


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Posts: 2886 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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I doubt Taya is hurting for anything these days, it's a non-issue IMO.

And stress to the kids? Well that's life, their daddy's actions have consequences.

And honestly if Taya chose, she could easily shield them from the large majority of it.

JMO
 
Posts: 36283 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
Sound and Fury
Picture of Dallas239
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I doubt Taya is hurting for anything these days, it's a non-issue IMO.

And stress to the kids? Well that's life, their daddy's actions have consequences.

And honestly if Taya chose, she could easily shield them from the large majority of it.

JMO
Look, Chris, and Taya after he was killed, made a decision not to settle the case. They could have denied liability, but agreed to change the book. The fact that people hold Ventura responsible for Taya's decision to continue to fight baffles me. I get that she wanted to believe her husband and defend her memory, and probably believed she was right and would vindicate Chris. But this is the course she chose to do that, and she must have known there was a risk of losing.




"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989

Si vis pacem para bellum
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Posts: 17703 | Registered: February 22, 2002Report This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
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Her payday depends on those stories. Of course she would try to smear Ventura as much as possible.
 
Posts: 7763 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Report This Post
Once a Marine,
always a Marine
Picture of Ronin1069
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What a great thread!

I will admit being in the group who hates Jesse (I'm from MN and thought he was a terrible governor).

Living in Minnesota, I followed that case closely from the onset. Kyle died after the suit had been established; Jesse had the opportunity to show a rare moment of class and kill the suit. He could have said, "I maintain Kyle made this shit up, but I'll be damned if I am going to drag the man's widow through this mess."

Had he done that, I genuinely believe that he would still be welcome at the SEAL reunions he held so dear, and would not be considered PNG as it is my understanding he currently is.

All that said, it has been great reading both sides of the argument and not see anyone flame out because their opinion was not being agreed to.


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Posts: 8824 | Location: Belly of the Beast | Registered: January 02, 2009Report This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
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Why shouldn't he? The wife owns the lie now, and profits from it.
 
Posts: 7763 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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I get why Chris / Taya had to fight the Ventura lie, because he is a living person who has been defamed. Simply deleting the lie from future publications (as in the Superdome and gas-station shootout) wouldn't work, especially after Chris repeatedly gave interviews about it being Ventura.

It was the kind of lie that destroys either person's (remaining) credibility, should they admit to it.

So they both refused to settle because even if they lost, could say "yeah, I lost the case but I still didn't do XYZ".

The fact that Chris was murdered really has nothing to do with it IMO.

Chris chose to bask in the public view with interviews and books (don't get me started on the Frogman Book of the month jokes I hear), and he (and now his estate) gets to take the good with the bad.
 
Posts: 36283 | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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I find it hard to get real worked up over this. Jesse is, and has been, a classless douche.

I know, he's been wronged, yada yada yada, has rights, blah blah blah, it could happen to you yada yada yada, but it takes energy to give two fucks about Jesse Ventura, who I might have mentioned has conditioned himself for over a decade (probably more than that) at being a classless douche. And I'd just as soon spend the energy elsewhere.


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Posts: 30716 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Report This Post
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Picture of 2012BOSS302
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Even though I liked his role sporting "old painless", JV was a jerk before this and was about out of the spotlight. He's a bigger jerk now but unfortunately back.



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Posts: 1865 | Location: Idaho | Registered: January 26, 2014Report This Post
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