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Jesse Ventura appeal denied by SCOTUS in Chris Kyle suit. Login/Join 
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
The interesting thing to me is that both sides agreed to less than majority verdict. Makes it even murkier.


What does that mean? A civil case can be decided with less than unanimity of the jurors, but it still takes more than a majority.
sorry, less than unanimous vedict



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 14504 | Location: N. Houston, TX | Registered: November 14, 2005Report This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
It's ludicrous to claim a small, insignificant part of a novel is the reason it made money. I bought it because he was the most successful sniper in US Military history.

I'm not ok with the lie, but find the money/rich argument disingenuine.
So what about this:
http://www.twincities.com/2014...ried-to-downplay-it/

In another email, an executive said a planned talk show rebuttal of Ventura’s denial would be “a nice little bonus hit for us.” A publicist said “the so-called ‘incident’ has helped the book go crazy,” according to emails excerpts read in the deposition.(sic)


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 11862 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Report This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
Here is an interesting analysis of the case from the National Review:
http://www.nationalreview.com/...is-lawsuit-j-delgado

For the record I think Ventura is a tool, but I agree with Dallas239 et al. Ventura may be a tool, but that doesn't mean he can't defend himself.


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 11862 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Report This Post
I swear I had
something for this
posted Hide Post
Wasn't all this because after Ventura won the initial lawsuit, he expanded the lawsuit to go after publishers?
 
Posts: 1890 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Report This Post
Live Slow,
Die Whenever
Picture of medic451
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DanH:
Wasn't all this because after Ventura won the initial lawsuit, he expanded the lawsuit to go after publishers?


No, the publishing company has an insurance policy that has to foot the bill, in Venturas case against Kyle the publishing company was held liable for not fact-checking Kyles claims and allowing slanderous material to go to print. Kyles estate will not lose a dime over this decision. The publishing company also withdrew all refrences in future books after finding out Kyle fabricated the story of his Texas gas station shooting.



"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
- John Wayne in "The Shootist"
 
Posts: 2526 | Location: California | Registered: May 31, 2004Report This Post
posting without pants
Picture of KevinCW
posted Hide Post
It must be around 31 degrees in hell today, because I actually agree with the goddamn lawyers in this thread.....

I gotta go shower now and scrub myself under boiling hot water for a few hours.





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 31843 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Report This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by medic451:
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
But I have to agree that this was a battle Ventura probably shouldn't have chosen to fight. Even if he was slandered by Kyle (and there is some reason to think he was), he wasn't going to come out of this dispute ahead of the game.
And that right there was the only real point I was trying to make. If Ventura were at all honest, he'd simply come straight out and state its the money he's after, because his name and reputation when all of this is done won't be worth spit.


2 things:
The money awarded to Ventura never came from Chris Kykes estate or his family's pocket- the publishing insurance company has to pay, so Taya is not really a victim in this case at all.

Ventura offered to drop the suit after Chris died if Taya and the publishing company would agree to pull the story about the bar incident, Taya refused. I dont know about you, but that sounds to me like Taya and the publishing company care more about money than Ventura does.

Its a shitty situation all around, but in the end Ventura is doing what he feels is right, and Chris or Taya Kyle and their legal team had many chances to make this all go away as well.
And you completely missed the point jhe888 and I were discussing. Right and wrong went out the window a long time ago on this one. Ventura may indeed see a payday on this. Maybe legally, as the attorneys here have noted, he's entitled to it. But make no mistake, his chasing this issue, given the way its been framed for the public (i.e. reality and perception don't always align for the media or the public), has completely destroyed his reputation and name. So his claim of suing to protect his 'good' name is just blowing smoke.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 25069 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
The only reason Ventura looks like an asshole to some is because they can't let themselves admit that Chris Kyle isn't the man they want him to be.
That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with. Jesse Ventura is an "asshole" in my eyes, because he's an asshole period. That was my view of Mr. Ventura long before this story even became a headline or lawsuit. If the lawsuit against the Kyle's had never occurred, my opinion of Ventura wouldn't have changed one bit. And if he dropped his lawsuit today and walked away, you know what he'd be in my view> The same asshole he was before having brought the it.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 25069 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by medic451:
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
But I have to agree that this was a battle Ventura probably shouldn't have chosen to fight. Even if he was slandered by Kyle (and there is some reason to think he was), he wasn't going to come out of this dispute ahead of the game.
And that right there was the only real point I was trying to make. If Ventura were at all honest, he'd simply come straight out and state its the money he's after, because his name and reputation when all of this is done won't be worth spit.


2 things:
The money awarded to Ventura never came from Chris Kykes estate or his family's pocket- the publishing insurance company has to pay, so Taya is not really a victim in this case at all.

Ventura offered to drop the suit after Chris died if Taya and the publishing company would agree to pull the story about the bar incident, Taya refused. I dont know about you, but that sounds to me like Taya and the publishing company care more about money than Ventura does.

Its a shitty situation all around, but in the end Ventura is doing what he feels is right, and Chris or Taya Kyle and their legal team had many chances to make this all go away as well.
And you completely missed the point jhe888 and I were discussing. Right and wrong went out the window a long time ago on this one. Ventura may indeed see a payday on this. Maybe legally, as the attorneys here have noted, he's entitled to it. But make no mistake, his chasing this issue, given the way its been framed for the public (i.e. reality and perception don't always align for the media or the public), has completely destroyed his reputation and name. So his claim of suing to protect his 'good' name is just blowing smoke.
yet he still has the right to protect himself against defamation, reputation notwithstanding




I'm Rick James.
 
Posts: 35828 | Location: Around | Registered: July 12, 2008Report This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DanH:
Wasn't all this because after Ventura won the initial lawsuit, he expanded the lawsuit to go after publishers?


No. You can't "expand" a lawsuit that has gone to a verdict. You wouldn't sue them separately. He sued everyone at once.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 44206 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Report This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
And you completely missed the point jhe888 and I were discussing. Right and wrong went out the window a long time ago on this one. Ventura may indeed see a payday on this. Maybe legally, as the attorneys here have noted, he's entitled to it. But make no mistake, his chasing this issue, given the way its been framed for the public (i.e. reality and perception don't always align for the media or the public), has completely destroyed his reputation and name. So his claim of suing to protect his 'good' name is just blowing smoke.


I mostly agree, but I don't think Ventura is just after the money and that complaining about his reputation is blowing smoke. He genuinely thinks he is protecting his reputation, but his judgment and ability to read public perception is so off that he doesn't know he is doing more harm than good to himself.

The evidence for this is his general tool-ishness. He has no idea how he appears to people, which is why he acts like such an ass. Think about many assholes you know - they often don't know they are assholes.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 44206 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Report This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
And you completely missed the point jhe888 and I were discussing. Right and wrong went out the window a long time ago on this one. Ventura may indeed see a payday on this. Maybe legally, as the attorneys here have noted, he's entitled to it. But make no mistake, his chasing this issue, given the way its been framed for the public (i.e. reality and perception don't always align for the media or the public), has completely destroyed his reputation and name. So his claim of suing to protect his 'good' name is just blowing smoke.


I mostly agree, but I don't think Ventura is just after the money and that complaining about his reputation is blowing smoke. He genuinely thinks he is protecting his reputation, but his judgment and ability to read public perception is so off that he doesn't know he is doing more harm than good to himself.

The evidence for this is his general tool-ishness. He has no idea how he appears to people, which is why he acts like such an ass. Think about many assholes you know - they often don't know they are assholes.


Ventura came to prominence, as so many do today, by being outrageous.

He is merely dancing with the one who brung him.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 42530 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Report This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
If you meet one asshole a day, that person is an asshole,

If everyone you meet is an asshole, well,, you're the asshole....

I don't care for the way the whole situation has been painted, Kyle made up some stuff for his book, and he got called out on it (his estate and publisher, simply because that's where you have to go to call out the fraud)

Great shot, great dad, great guy, but he embellished (big word for lied)and got caught, I agree with JHE, Ventura might be right, but he's getting the raw end of the stick based on his actions.

Then again he went to Kyles wife and publisher in private and asked for that to be removed and was told not happening.

Therefore his options are to sit back and take being called a punk or fight back.

The people that caused this to go public are Kyle, his wife and the publishers, and I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that was part of the plan, let it get into the press, paint the situation as Ventura being an ass and sell more books then agree to take it out of the book and settle, making a lot more money. Who's to say...


What would anyone else do that was maligned in public for capital gain. Kyle screwed up, simple as that.



"My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 10960 | Location: Mouseville, FL | Registered: November 07, 2008Report This Post
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Picture of bigdeal
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quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
yet he still has the right to protect himself against defamation, reputation notwithstanding
Welcome to the 'missed the boat club'. Once again to clarify, Ventura 'has' the right to sue. No question. He might even win in the end. But as jhe888 put it just above (and better than I did), Ventura is injuring himself far worse than anything he might derive from this lawsuit, and I would contend, far worse than the original falsehood Kyle floated had he simply rebutted it and walked away. "Ego goeth before a fall" is the mantra I believe Ventura is operating on, and regardless the outcome of the lawsuit, he's destined to be the big loser.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 25069 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
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This is a difficult one for me to a certain degree. Taya is awesome, and when last I saw her, doing fine. Chris, I think, got caught up a bit in the "Texas Tall Tale" draw which is a common affliction to many from the Republic. I really, truly wish he hadn't, but feel in my heart he did. Did something happen at McPs? Probably. I wasn't there that night. I always kinda tolerated JV, but feel he missed his true opportunity here. Yes, I understand his rights etc.. I understand suing once CK made the interview comments. If CK hadn't then likely this wouldn't have gone anywhere. As JHE has said, JV has, and continues to hurt himself from fighting this fight and continuing this fight. There was a well written interview article a year or 2 ago about JV now being lost to the community, and all that it has cost him. Imho, rights aside, once Chris was murdered, if JV would have said, "look, this didn't happen this way, and I know I would prevail in court, but Chris is gone and there can never be closure between us on this. I'm not going to continue this because of the stress and duress it puts Taya under as she raises their children" then I think his reputation, and his bankability as an actor, speaker etc, would have improved greatly. That's just me and how I choose to live and see the world.

Bottom line, humans were involved, and humans, even admirable and heroic ones, are imperfect and fallible.




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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
Posts: 4428 | Location: District 12 | Registered: June 16, 2012Report This Post
Bolt Thrower
Picture of Voshterkoff
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I'm shocked at the number of people who stick by the tale of a known liar.
 
Posts: 7729 | Location: Woodinville, WA | Registered: March 30, 2004Report This Post
Leatherneck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
The only reason Ventura looks like an asshole to some is because they can't let themselves admit that Chris Kyle isn't the man they want him to be.
That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with. Jesse Ventura is an "asshole" in my eyes, because he's an asshole period. That was my view of Mr. Ventura long before this story even became a headline or lawsuit. If the lawsuit against the Kyle's had never occurred, my opinion of Ventura wouldn't have changed one bit. And if he dropped his lawsuit today and walked away, you know what he'd be in my view> The same asshole he was before having brought the it.


That is kind of my point.

You think Ventura is an asshole but you already thought that. If the situation was reversed and Ventura lied about Chris Kyle then most people, including me, here would be calling for Venturas head on a stick. The reason people are still siding with Chris Kyle is because they like Kyle and dislike Ventura and they held those opinions before this lawsuit took place.

Tell me honestly, if the situation was reversed and Ventura wrote a book saying that Chris Kyle was shit talking dead SEALs, would you say Chris Kyle should just let it go?




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Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets. -bionic218 04-02-2014

 
Posts: 11977 | Location: Georgia | Registered: May 07, 2008Report This Post
Too old to run,
too mean to quit!
posted Hide Post
quote:
If Kyle lied about Ventura then justice should be served.



Admittedly, I have not been following this whole MCF. So, where is the real, hard, evidence that Kyle lied about ventura?

Or is this simply another one of those "he said, she said" things?


Elk

There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour)

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. "
-Thomas Jefferson

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FBHO!!!



The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 22206 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Report This Post
There is a world elsewhere
Picture of Echtermetzger
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He'll say things I agree with and start making sense, but then he keeps running his mouth and turns it into shit.

His arrogance is really just a cover for his insecurity. He has some deep-rooted lack of self-worth that he feels he keeps needing to justify who he is or what he says. Whenever he gets challenged, he ulitmately falls back on the "I was a Navy SEAL" as some sort of rhetorical Get-Out-Jail-Free card. He's played that card way, WAY too many times for him to be regarded as serious anymore.

He may earnestly hold his beliefs, but as long as he keeps acting like some defensive high school kid who gets blamed for farting in gym class, he will never be taken seriously.

With that said, Kyle wasn't exactly the Golden Child when it came to honesty either. The Hurricane Katrina sniper shit, the gas station shooting, etc. is bullshit. Once he talked shit about Ventura, he knew Jesse was insecure enough to take the bait and sue him. Maybe he counted on the notoriety boosting books sales, but the legal pertubations also made the other bullshit in his book come to the surface.


A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed.
Who has the right to the food? It ain't breakfast

 
Posts: 6514 | Location: The hard land of the Winter | Registered: April 14, 2003Report This Post
Member
Picture of bigdeal
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Tell me honestly, if the situation was reversed and Ventura wrote a book saying that Chris Kyle was shit talking dead SEALs, would you say Chris Kyle should just let it go?
Let me put it this way. I've been honored to have met one 'teams' guy in my lifetime. He thoroughly impressed me as being both very intelligent, and very pragmatic. I would wager that if the bad guys killed one of his guys, and they couldn't mount an operation that killed the bad guys without them loosing a proportional number of their own, they'd opt to stand down until a better option presented itself.

So in your hypothetical, if Kyle was wronged by Ventura, and a lawsuit would only result in further damage to his (Kyle's) reputation, then 'yes', I would hope Kyle would verbally denounce the lie Ventura told, and walk away.

And having read Kyle's book, I doubt the dust up with Ventura played a major role in the success of the book. Much like in real life, Ventura wasn't that significant to the story.


-----------------------------
Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
 
Posts: 25069 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Report This Post
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