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Jesse Ventura appeal denied by SCOTUS in Chris Kyle suit. Login/Join 
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
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That article is not available to non-members of that site.

Here is a little more information:

http://www.twincities.com/2017...-in-defamation-case/

It appears that none of the appellate courts, both the 8th Circuit or the Supremes, have made any ruling on who was factually correct in the dispute. (And that isn't really what appeals courts do, in general.)

The appeals concerned Ventura's lawyers' mention of the availability of insurance to pay a verdict, which the 8th Circuit found was improper and likely influenced the jury in a way that is not allowable. The 8th sent the case back for a new trial. The Supremes declined to change the ruling of the 8th Circuit on that point, and did so without comment.

So, the case seems to be back to the trial court with no appellate court having made any comment about who was factually right. The appellate decision appears to be limited deciding that discussing insurance at trial was improper.

If you want to be technically accurate - the only fact finder - the original jury - found that Jesse was slandered, and its verdict has been set aside on the basis that it shouldn't have heard about insurance. You would normally think that might influence the jury on the amount of damages, but probably not on the "who is in the wrong" question.

This is emphatically not an appellate court finding that Jesse is full of shit.

Of course, I think Jesse is generally full of shit.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 42767 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sound and Fury
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Jesse is generally full of shit. But as a public figure, he had the burden to convince the jury that Kyle had actually lied about the incident. The jury felt he carried that burden. As much of a hero as Chris Kyle indisputably was, there's no denying that he clouded his own legend with lies and half truths, not just about Ventura. What makes a man that anyone would admire in real life make up stories is beyond me. I'm not bashing him for it, but I'm also not going to bash Ventura for standing up for himself when he was (apparently falsely) the butt of one of those stories.




"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989

Si vis pacem para bellum
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Feeding Trolls Since 1995
 
Posts: 17594 | Registered: February 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dallas239:
...but I'm also not going to bash Ventura for standing up for himself when he was (apparently falsely) the butt of one of those stories.
You're kidding, right? If Ventura had gone after Kyle himself for his statements that would be one thing, but to continually attack his widow publicly and in the courts is beyond stupid given the 'guaranteed' outcome.

Sometimes the smarter move is to take the high road, let it drop, and move on. Ventura might have escaped this mess with some of his character and respect in tact had he gone that route, but now, regardless of any settlement or verdict in this case, he's become loathed by millions who wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire. "Ego goeth before a fall", and Ventura has plummeted off the planet with his pitiful behavior.


-----------------------------
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. - Thomas Sowell

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
 
Posts: 24158 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm with Dallas on this one.

Kyle clearly lied about shooting people from atop the Superdome, and no one ever found any evidence his little carjacking story was true, either. Anyone who tells a lie and makes someone else look bad on this kind of scale deserves to get sued.

As for pursuing the widow, what was Ventura supposed to do? Drop the lawsuit and make it look like he had no cause in the first place? Taya Kyle is not working two jobs at a Walmart and a gas station to scrape by. The book and movie no doubt earned Kyle's estate well over 7 figures.

Even heroes can have dark sides. Heroes can screw up. They can tell lies. Saving lives and being brave doesn't get you a get out of jail free card when you do something wrong. Likewise a jackass can be right from time to time. I think this is one of those instances where both are true.
 
Posts: 2093 | Location: Dallas TX | Registered: December 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be Well and Keep Your Rifle Clean
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quote:
Originally posted by Jumper:
I'm with Dallas on this one.

Kyle clearly lied about shooting people from atop the Superdome, and no one ever found any evidence his little carjacking story was true, either. Anyone who tells a lie and makes someone else look bad on this kind of scale deserves to get sued.

As for pursuing the widow, what was Ventura supposed to do? Drop the lawsuit and make it look like he had no cause in the first place? Taya Kyle is not working two jobs at a Walmart and a gas station to scrape by. The book and movie no doubt earned Kyle's estate well over 7 figures.

Even heroes can have dark sides. Heroes can screw up. They can tell lies. Saving lives and being brave doesn't get you a get out of jail free card when you do something wrong. Likewise a jackass can be right from time to time. I think this is one of those instances where both are true.


I want so much to disagree with your logic but I cannot.
Still, I cannot be on the side of Ventura in this.




"..AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC,...SO HELP ME GOD."


 
Posts: 20313 | Location: Czechtown,Minnesota | Registered: October 17, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jumper:
As for pursuing the widow, what was Ventura supposed to do? Drop the lawsuit and make it look like he had no cause in the first place? Taya Kyle is not working two jobs at a Walmart and a gas station to scrape by. The book and movie no doubt earned Kyle's estate well over 7 figures.
I'm not going to weigh in on Chris Kyle's comments or actions. But if your goal is to have a court hand you a piece of that pie while personally destroyign your own reputation (whatever there was of it), then Ventura's game plan is working.

You cannot attack a widow of someone like Ventura has done without completely destroying your entire reputation. I would also go as far as to say Ventura's behavior has completely destroyed any/all potential job opportunities he might have had in the future. Well, unless he wants to run as a Dem senate candidate. Roll Eyes

Whether Kyle's comments about Ventura were true or not is almost irrelevant at this point. Ventura has no one but himself to blame for being universally despised by a huge section of this country.


-----------------------------
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. - Thomas Sowell

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
 
Posts: 24158 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
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Whether JV had or didn't have a basis for the lawsuit is irrelevant. The guy who wronged him is dead, and he looks like an even bigger douchebag than he already was for going after his widow. Just my two cents, and worth every penny.



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Posts: 17994 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
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He didn't go after the widow, to my understanding. He went after Kyle's estate, which is all he can do when Kyle is no longer alive.

If Ventura was wronged, and a jury which knew more about these people and situation than we do found he was wronged, Kyle doesn't get a pass just because he died.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 42767 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
He didn't go after the widow, to my understanding. He went after Kyle's estate, which is all he can do when Kyle is no longer alive.

If Ventura was wronged, and a jury which knew more about these people and situation than we do found he was wronged, Kyle doesn't get a pass just because he died.
I know you're an attorney, and since I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm not going to spar with you on the subject. Smile But lets be fair shall we. Chris Kyle is dead, and his widow now is the owner of their estate. Any attack on the estate is an attack on the widow.

And it takes a special kind of person to pursue a lawsuit to "defend his good name", all the while totally destroying it, by his own hand, in the eyes of a huge cross section of the country. No sum of money can ever restore the integrity, or 'good name'(Roll Eyes), Ventura threw away on this lawsuit.


-----------------------------
The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics. - Thomas Sowell

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
 
Posts: 24158 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: April 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sound and Fury
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If somebody can show where Ventura went after Taya Kyle, I'd like to see it. It might change my opinion.

As for all the harm done to Ventura's reputation, we lawyers can that "damages."




"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989

Si vis pacem para bellum
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Feeding Trolls Since 1995
 
Posts: 17594 | Registered: February 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sound and Fury
Picture of Dallas239
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quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
He didn't go after the widow, to my understanding. He went after Kyle's estate, which is all he can do when Kyle is no longer alive.

If Ventura was wronged, and a jury which knew more about these people and situation than we do found he was wronged, Kyle doesn't get a pass just because he died.
I know you're an attorney, and since I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm not going to spar with you on the subject. Smile But lets be fair shall we. Chris Kyle is dead, and his widow now is the owner of their estate. Any attack on the estate is an attack on the widow.

And it takes a special kind of person to pursue a lawsuit to "defend his good name", all the while totally destroying it, by his own hand, in the eyes of a huge cross section of the country. No sum of money can ever restore the integrity, or 'good name'(Roll Eyes), Ventura threw away on this lawsuit.
And when Kyle was alive, all of his stuff was half Taya's. So when Ventura filled the lawsuit, was he half going after her? What about the fact that if Ventura is right, that all that money is ill-gotten gains. Should she just get to keep it? If a bank robber dies, does his window get to keep the loot? This has nothing to do with Kyle's heroism. It isn't even like Ventura is going after his pension. We're talking about Kyle's for-profit activities, that allegedly involved puffing himself up at other's expense.




"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989

Si vis pacem para bellum
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Feeding Trolls Since 1995
 
Posts: 17594 | Registered: February 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm not laughing
WITH you
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quote:
Originally posted by toms:
Suck it asshole.


Well said, Tom.




Rolan Kraps
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Posts: 21409 | Location: Gainesville, GA | Registered: October 11, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Live Slow,
Die Whenever
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quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
He didn't go after the widow, to my understanding. He went after Kyle's estate, which is all he can do when Kyle is no longer alive.

If Ventura was wronged, and a jury which knew more about these people and situation than we do found he was wronged, Kyle doesn't get a pass just because he died.
I know you're an attorney, and since I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm not going to spar with you on the subject. Smile But lets be fair shall we. Chris Kyle is dead, and his widow now is the owner of their estate. Any attack on the estate is an attack on the widow.

And it takes a special kind of person to pursue a lawsuit to "defend his good name", all the while totally destroying it, by his own hand, in the eyes of a huge cross section of the country. No sum of money can ever restore the integrity, or 'good name'(Roll Eyes), Ventura threw away on this lawsuit.


So does the fact that Jesse offered to drop the suit against Chris Kyles estate if they removed all references to him in future copies make any diffrence to you? Or the fact that Taya flat out refused to do so, because in her eyes it woukd be a public admission that her late husband did in fact fabricate that entire story, among several others? Sorry, but Taya and Chris both had the chance to fo the right thing here, and they chose money over integrity. Jesse Ventura is an ass-clown, but in the eyes of the law he's right.



"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
- John Wayne
 
Posts: 2400 | Location: California | Registered: May 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
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You all can hold him up as a hero if you want but to me he is just a liar who clearly was not satisfied with his own accomplishments in life so he felt he had to make some up.

His courage and heroism during combat are not in question. But being good at shooting people doesn't mean I'll pardon everything else a person does.

I despise Ventura but I don't like liars either and I know that if someone wrote a bunch of lies about me in a book and then made a bunch of money from it I would be pissed too. I am truly that sorry his wife got caught up in the mess but why should she make money off of his lies?




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Live Slow,
Die Whenever
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quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
You all can hold him up as a hero if you want but to me he is just a liar who clearly was not satisfied with his own accomplishments in life so he felt he had to make some up.

His courage and heroism during combat are not in question. But being good at shooting people doesn't mean I'll pardon everything else a person does.

I despise Ventura but I don't like liars either and I know that if someone wrote a bunch of lies about me in a book and then made a bunch of money from it I would be pissed too. I am truly that sorry his wife got caught up in the mess but why should she make money off of his lies?


Well said pale horse^^^



"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
- John Wayne
 
Posts: 2400 | Location: California | Registered: May 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
He didn't go after the widow, to my understanding. He went after Kyle's estate, which is all he can do when Kyle is no longer alive.

If Ventura was wronged, and a jury which knew more about these people and situation than we do found he was wronged, Kyle doesn't get a pass just because he died.


I don't want you to be right, but you are. I let my bias toward Kyle cloud my perspective on this whole matter. Frankly, I wish the punch in the face happened. I wish Ventura would be decent enough to disappear. I wish Taya did not have to deal with him. I wish she could have her husband back. None of that matters though. If Kyle lied about Ventura then justice should be served. I hope the recent decision was not biased as I know I am.



...but resist, we much. We must, and we will much, about that, be committed. Al Sharpton 2011
 
Posts: 20953 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sound and Fury
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quote:
Originally posted by darthfuster:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
He didn't go after the widow, to my understanding. He went after Kyle's estate, which is all he can do when Kyle is no longer alive.

If Ventura was wronged, and a jury which knew more about these people and situation than we do found he was wronged, Kyle doesn't get a pass just because he died.


I don't want you to be right, but you are. I let my bias toward Kyle cloud my perspective on this whole matter. Frankly, I wish the punch in the face happened. I wish Ventura would be decent enough to disappear. I wish Taya did not have to deal with him. I wish she could have her husband back. None of that matters though. If Kyle lied about Ventura then justice should be served. I hope the recent decision was not biased as I know I am.
Minor clarification, Ventura assured Kyle while he was alive. Kyle was actually deposed in the suit, and I understand portions of that were played for the jury. So it also isn't as if Kyle didn't have the chance to defend himself.




"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here." -- Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, Jan. 11, 1989

Si vis pacem para bellum
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Feeding Trolls Since 1995
 
Posts: 17594 | Registered: February 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
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quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I am truly that sorry his wife got caught up in the mess but why should she make money off of his lies?


I seriously doubt that the book was selling copies and making her money simply because it had mention of this sorry sack of butt mud in it.


~Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I am truly that sorry his wife got caught up in the mess but why should she make money off of his lies?


I seriously doubt that the book was selling copies and making her money simply because it had mention of this sorry sack of butt mud in it.
It's a very small, insignificant portion of the novel. I didn't even know about that portion when I bought and read the novel.



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 13206 | Location: N. Houston, TX | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
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quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
He didn't go after the widow, to my understanding. He went after Kyle's estate, which is all he can do when Kyle is no longer alive.

If Ventura was wronged, and a jury which knew more about these people and situation than we do found he was wronged, Kyle doesn't get a pass just because he died.
I know you're an attorney, and since I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm not going to spar with you on the subject. Smile But lets be fair shall we. Chris Kyle is dead, and his widow now is the owner of their estate. Any attack on the estate is an attack on the widow.

And it takes a special kind of person to pursue a lawsuit to "defend his good name", all the while totally destroying it, by his own hand, in the eyes of a huge cross section of the country. No sum of money can ever restore the integrity, or 'good name'(Roll Eyes), Ventura threw away on this lawsuit.


It would be a bad result if a deserving plaintiff could be denied a recovery simply because the defendant had the good luck to die. Should a murder victim's children be cut off from recovery if the murderer dies? Or should his estate shoulder the cost? It will always be the beneficiaries of the estate who will feel the loss - widows, children, nephews - whoever. They would have felt it anyway, even the defendant lost while still alive.

But I have to agree that this was a battle Ventura probably shouldn't have chosen to fight. Even if he was slandered by Kyle (and there is some reason to think he was), he wasn't going to come out of this dispute ahead of the game.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 42767 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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