John, Do you feel he will actually change his ways or just say what you want to hear? Will you have to talk with him again in six months, a year, two years? He apparently said the right things in the job interview to get the job in the first place. Did his previous employer try to counter your offer to him? I would think not being he is making the same salary. Why? Were they secretly glad to get rid of him so they didn't have to pay unemployment?

quote:

Originally posted by petr:
John, Do you feel he will actually change his ways <snip>

No Pete, I don't. Which really says it all, I still hate this one though.

Some of this may be a need to give him clear guidance about what he can, and cannot do.

EG, No new recipes without owner approval. No ingredient substitutions. All scheduling to be handled by management/etc.

What was he actually hired to do? Do you have a specific set of goals you were expecting your new hire to do?

Were you looking for him to execute specific recipes? Develop new ones?

quote:

Originally posted by southernmaninla:
Big mistake keeping him around, in my book. Gives him time to exact revenge on you and your business. What is the potential for him to "talk" to your customers? To poison your staff or run them off? Cut your losses while your ahead and move forward.

100% agree this gives him time to do more harm.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
<UPDATE>

Guys, I know from a business point-of-view "why" to let him go; this is not my first firing. But...what I am struggling with a bit...a lot....is that part of me feels I owe it to him to chew his ass and point blank tell him his job is in jeopardy.

I don't take lightly the fact that the man left another $70k job to come work with us...not my problem, I know. But it's how I'm wired...it's still something I think about.

Ok, I’m wandering into this late. I manage ~7-10 ppl, not a lot, but we do a lot of detail work, so they all have to be in sync, as a kitchen would, I suspect. Everyone’s work depends on each other, and no one contribution is small. It’s all important.

Your first post said nothing good about the guy. I couldn’t find one positive. You shaded it that way, and that’s the way I took it (for god’s sake margarine for butter?? I’m no cook, and even I know better when it comes to pastry..).

In that original post you also indicated that you had discussions with the guy about what he was doing wrong. So I am not sure why he would need further notice that his job was in jeopardy.

Unless during those discussions you clapped him on the back, and said “do better, we know it’s all still new at this point” and led him to believe that this was tolerable behavior, I think it’s right to release him, no explanation (please don’t put yourself there, even if he asks, you know better). My only caution might be a future kitchen mutiny. If the crew figures throwing all their shifts up for grabs is all it takes to get rid of a jerk...and get you to bend to their will, well..
Been there, dealt with that. It does suck, but how do you know all this negative stuff about the chef? Firsthand, multiple sources, same levels sources, how...? Has the chef had a chance to respond as to why he would not stick to an approved menu, modify ingredients, etc? I only ask because you do seem to be reconsidering.

It’s so hard to let someone go so soon, esp after all that work posting, hiring, vetting, and closing the job opening, letting all the other applicants know the job was filled. You just want to make it work. But as we all know, everybody lies. Especially on interview.
I wish you the best, and best of luck tomorrow whatever your decision is.

Sorry, Ronin. My time in the food service industry makes me cringe and wince reading through this thread. I've been on a few kitchen staffs that were running smooth until the owners tried to shoehorn some fucking clown in there who had to try to remake the place in his image. One was a kichen manager changeover and the other was a sous chef. They didn't try to go to war with the army they had, they tried to strongarm the staff into becoming what they wanted, with the inevitable fallout.

You said it yourself: you're going to lose back of house trying to salvage this clown. Kitchen bitches are easy to discount, until they're not there and you have to train someone fresh and you lose the continuity of magic from an employee who does their job well and does the many little extra things people don't notice until they stop happening. I got flushed in the loyalty purge in one changeover and watched from a distance on the other one as the sous chef and the manager who hired him and flew his flag while the staff disintegrated both got flushed.

Do yourself a favor and shitcan the guy. Tell him "very simply, this isn't working out and I don't see a way forward for you with the company." How's he gonna argue that?

I understand that this is a tough decision and I think you may be sympathetic as you were unemployed yourself not that long ago. You need to do what is best for the company, not him, your staff or yourself. It sucks. This is one reason you were hired to do the job you do. There are many good things about being a supervisor, this is one of the bad

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
So here is an example from just today. He is upset that his lead baker put her shift 'up for grabs' because he scheduled her on a night that he knows she cannot work. She sent me the screenshot of his reply. I sent her a note back asking her not to engage with him via text anymore today.

He's moving work shifts around and pissing off kitchen workers?

For cripes sake get rid of that guy BEFORE YOU LOOSE key kitchen staff.

quote:

Originally posted by kz1000:

This.

It's time to be the leader, step up, and fire his ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:

quote:

Originally posted by petr:
John, Do you feel he will actually change his ways <snip>

No Pete, I don't. Which really says it all, I still hate this one though.

This is where I'm at. If you actually think there is a chance he'll change, then yeah, give him the chance. If not, then just get it over with.

.

Hi Ronin,
I understand why you want to keep him and to improve the situation ~ You have a heart. I hate firing people, it's like telling them their dog died.

Firing someone will never be easy, especially when you hired them because you have a vested interest in their success. When a new employee you've hired fails, you realized you failed too.

Based on what you've written, you're just waiting for him to screw up a few more times before you reach your limit and are comfortable firing him for cause.

Hopefully, the owners will step in and fire him before significant damage to their reputation and sales is done. Perhaps they need to consider firing you for letting the disruption to their business get this far out of hand.

The owners are trusting you to manage the company and to keep it moving in the right direction. If you loose customers or employees because of this guy, you should be fired because your loyalties should be to the owners first. Remember it's their investment.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am trying to remind you what you've been entrusted to do for the owners. They entrusted you in this leadership position of their company.

.

I'm not trying to give you an out or maybe I am.

Have you confirmed his last pay and was he secure at his last job? I know I voluntarily took a pay cut for a job close to home but all other things the same, i wouldn't switch jobs for the same pay - no return for having to learn new environment.

If this is how he is, maybe that's how he was and he was also on the outs. In any case, we can even turn this around and assume you and the owner are the assholes, you give him that ultimatum and I'm thinking that's not jiving with what he sees the position to be. Might as well put him out of his misery, call it a bad hire, and he can go on unemployment.

Also, I would think you would do a taste test with a chef?

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:

quote:

Originally posted by petr:
John, Do you feel he will actually change his ways <snip>

No Pete, I don't. Which really says it all, I still hate this one though.

There is nothing to hate. The guy made his bed. You told him what is expected and he ignored it. He then went on to change the recipes without approval. He is also pissing off a lot of good employees. GAME OVER.

IMO, swapping butter for margarine would be enough for me to send him packing. No chef worthy of the name would willingly do something like that.

This guy sounds like a fraud. Seriously.

Add to it, the fact that he doesn’t work well with either his bosses or his staff? It sounds like you already know the answer. He needs to go.

quote:

Originally posted by sleepla8er:
.

Hi Ronin,
I understand why you want to keep him and to improve the situation ~ You have a heart. I hate firing people, it's like telling them their dog died.

Firing someone will never be easy, especially when you hired them because you have a vested interest in their success. When a new employee you've hired fails, you realized you failed too.

Based on what you've written, you're just waiting for him to screw up a few more times before you reach your limit and are comfortable firing him for cause.

Hopefully, the owners will step in and fire him before significant damage to their reputation and sales is done. Perhaps they need to consider firing you for letting the disruption to their business get this far out of hand.

The owners are trusting you to manage the company and to keep it moving in the right direction. If you loose customers or employees because of this guy, you should be fired because your loyalties should be to the owners first. Remember it's their investment.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am trying to remind you what you've been entrusted to do for the owners. They entrusted you in this leadership position of their company.

.

Excellent point. It certainly doesn’t make this situation easier, but I agree: the owners are likely evaluating you on how you handle this.

“It’s not working out. You’re being let go. Here is your final paycheck. Please give me your keys. I’ll walk you out.”

Are you running a social outreach program or are you running a business?

The guy you described didn't have a single positive and has done everything contrary to your expressed instructions.

Your customers won't know or care about his personal struggles.

As the owner of a (very) small business, I maintain that the job of a manager is to uphold the best interests of the owner(s) of the business. That is where your loyalty should be, not to an employee who is degrading the quality of the product, alienating the staff, and giving the customers an inferior product.

If you do not dump him, you are not meeting your obligation to your employer.

What I said might sound harsh, but I kick myself in the ass every day when I think about all the breaks that I gave to one employee who wound up screwing me multiple ways and taking me for some significant $$$. I should have kicked him loose at the first offense, but I thought I could turn his sorry ass around. I was wrong. Very, very, wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

“The Godfather” is the “I Ching” of business wisdom.