Seeing the other thread about the U.S. preparing to fight in Europe made me think about this. Putin isn't a madman like Hitler. I understand his wanting to reassemble the Soviet Union to it's former glory, but is he really interested in attacking/taking over western Europe? Why? Natural resources? I'd think Russia can get by, and they certainly should be working on building nuclear plants, battery plants, and electric vehicles. They don't give a shit about green protesters.

I sort of wonder the same about China. Do they really want to take over the world?

Power and Domination

Oil. Coal. Gold. Other natural resources.
Plus chicks dig it.



Remember, things like communism only "work' if everyone is doing it.

Even then it's not so much that it works as it is that there's nothing else to compare it to, to see that it isn't working.

While there's a few differences, it's all about exerting political control of the territories around each country.

With Russia, it's two part: reclaiming past possessions in order to re-establish the buffer states that once existed during the Soviet Union and controlling territory so they can bring their natural resources to market at maximum profitability. Russian paranoia about 'the other' goes way back and much of this is to insulate Moscow from any attack, the far Eastern Baltic states were under Soviet control and provided multiple ports of entry to the Baltic/North Atlantic; as massive a land area as Russia has, they really don't have a lot of usable coastline. The other part for them is they're rich in natural gas and oil reserves; Europe needs those resources as the North Sea can only provide so much, Middle East oil is a headache and the Norwegians aren't too keen on over-developing that area. Getting those reserves to market requires crossing several countries that aren't on the best of terms with Russia. If Russia is able to influence/control those areas where their oil/gas can be moved, they then can exert control on that market. The Norwegian show Occupied on Netflix deals with some of this, very good.

As for China, they're looking to establish regional hegemony. The last 150-years, China was mismanaged by it's own govt, taken advantage of by Western powers (Boxer Rebellion), then abused by it's neighbor (Japan). The Communist party has used this chip on the shoulder message to motivate and justify it's rapid growth, flexing of it's new found power and ultimately righting of past wrongs. They view the US as an intruder in it's neighborhood and by extension, trying to exert racial superiority over the Asian-half of the world.

The reality is, the US created the rise and success of Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan and Singapore which has resulted in each of those countries being independent economic powers with close relations with the US and the rest of the West. The Communists under Mao, beat the US-backed allies of Chiang Kai Check and ended up closing it's doors to the West for 40+ years, meanwhile, the US rebuilt the mentioned countries into regional powers. Now China is trying to play catch-up, believing their place in that part of the world is at the head of the table; by stealing IP information and putting everyone to work, they can bypass the RD&D process, fill their wallets and start telling everyone what to do. Unfortunately, all the button pushers and lever pullers in the Communist Party, aren't known to play well with others since no is an answer they don't hear to often and now they're getting some resistance from their neighbors. This story will likely end in conflict or, an implosion from within.

War with Gustav III of Sweden in the 17th century, the seven years war with Prussia in the 18th century, the burning of Moscow by Napoleon in the 19th century, and the fight with Hitler in the 20th century. These tend to imprint on the national psyche. It makes you want to have a buffer.

Greed
Power
Resources
Natural Buffer Zones
Freedom From Oppression
etc.

The same sorts of thing humans have fought over since the very beginning.

The idea that just because some folks, many years ago, divided up the Earth into things called Countries and act like that's it, we're done, is, well, naive. Empires have risen and fallen numerous times. The game, so to speak, never ends, we (humanity) will be fighting these "wars" and wars as long as we exist and have to share space and natural resources.

Don't think for a second that we aren't doing the same sorts of things, only differently, or that we wouldn't roll across Russia's land and plant an American flag if we thought we could get away with it. We'd be handing out 'bola blankets like there's no tomorrow and relegating the natives to Reservations in Siberia where Casinos would be legal. Bank on it.

Most all would if they could get away with it.

Corsair,
Well said. I am not going to quote you IOT save bandwidth.

I would also point out the Chinese activities in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Africa. The Chinese are trying to secure resources to fuel their economy, especially their electronics industry as they take over the Asian and Africa markets.

I'd also add relevance as a reason for expansion. At one point, the Russian Bear could growl and the whole world would shake. for a while there, no one cared about Russia.

Another reason for expansion is demonstrated in the Straits of Hormuz. The ownership of key terrain and/or trade routes. The Iranians harass shipping and threaten to close the straits. If they close the straits watch the impact on Oil prices.

FWIW, I think it varies from one to another. Resources is certainly up on the top of everyone’s list. My personal opinion is that a country like Russia which has natural resources is probably after other things. Maybe a sea port that doesn’t freeze solid every winter? Access to markets (Pipelines to deliver their oil)? As oddly as it may sound, people. Socialist based countries need people to tax. That would mean revenue for the central government. Japan prior to WWII wanted trade with Europe and the U.S. but wasn’t gaining enough traction with the good ole boys club of anglos. Even Germany was looking to improve their economic position after the Allies basically crippled their economy. My opinion is it’s nearly always resources. It just differs based on the conditions and times.

Watch Communist Chinese TV. Not sure if its broadcast in the US, but it is in some foreign countries. (In English/with subtitles.)

Its VERY clear, the Han are patient NAZIs. They believe they are to be the master race, and are meant to subjugate the world, even if it takes 500 years to do it.

Likewise, be very wary of US 1st gen Hans. Knew some dedicated American Hans, who have children who would betray the USA in a heartbeat.

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
I would also point out the Chinese activities in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Africa. The Chinese are trying to secure resources to fuel their economy, especially their electronics industry as they take over the Asian and Africa markets.

That's another factor to keep an eye-on with China. Resources and usable land for them is scarce, the command agricultural economy that the Communists over-saw post-WWII screwed up certain areas permanently, they have to look abroad to secure their future. The occupation of Tibet has more to do with controlling the water rights that feeds the southern agricultural regions, than it does honoring some historical correction or, corralling a break-away region.

Africa as a whole is in the cross-hairs for both agricultural and mineral needs. All the in-roads that China has made to coddle and 'lend assistance' by building ports, hospitals, freeways/rails, airports, while they immediately serve the needs of the host nation, the ChiComs can (eventually will) leverage their position to utilize those resources to move exports for their own needs on their terms. Finally, controlling the economic choke points is what drives the rapid growth of their Navy. To control the Indian Ocean, South & East China Sea and the Strait of Malacca, and dictate terms of passage to other countries, would not only cripple the world's economy, it would bring the economies of India, Australia, Japan, S.Korea and Singapore to it's knees.

Great notes above on China.

Ever wonder what happened to Eric Prince/Blackwater?

In Africa and protecting resources from the Chinese. Huge $$$s from those governments and companies. It’s off most folks radar, but for those who are effected it’s a a pressing issue.

With regard to Russia, it’s more local expansion and suppression of potentially hostile neighbors that is probably their chief goal, and explains the invasion of Crimea and Ukraine and threatening of the Baltic states. There are those (I’m not one) who think expansion of NATO into the Baltics was bound to be seen as an overtly hostile act.
IMO Putin is acting in a typical way for a Russian autocrat, and it looks to us (and I think is) paranoid behavior.